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Es16 and TGC

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  • #31
    I'm curious to know how it would be calculated. I'm thinking they would have to assume a center hit for starters (but maybe not), then possible determine face angle based on start direction of the ball (i.e. 85% for driver and 75% for irons, maybe), and determine path based on start direction vs spin axis possible. For example if face was 2 degrees closed and you had 0 spin axis then you would know path would be 2 degrees outside in, maybe something like that.. And if it is just being calculated why couldn't Foresight or Skytrack do the same thing??

    Also, I think I read somewhere that trackman also calculates face and path to certain degree as well??

    Comment


    • andygg1986
      andygg1986 commented
      Editing a comment
      If you hit the ball on the toe, it will start farther right and have more hook spin than a shot in the center of the club. A heel shot starts left with extra slice spin.

      As a simple example, you could swing with a square clubface and straight path but hit it off the toe. The result would be a draw. If you don't know that it was a toe hit or that the path was square, you can't say that the swing path wasn't inside out with a slightly open club face, which would also cause a draw. You could guess at how solid the shot was by looking at smash factor, but I don't think that would differentiate between a fat shot in the middle of the club or a toe shot.

      Another way of thinking about it is there are three inputs (club direction, face direction, impact location on the face) which will give two outputs (ball direction and spin). If you have any four, you can calculate the fifth parameter based on the equations that I referenced earlier. I think that it would be physically possible for the ES16 to know about where you hit the ball on the face by tracking the center of mass of the club and the ball with radar and seeing if they line up at impact. The cameras can measure ball direction and spin. Those four parameters would let you calculate face direction. I imagine the biggest error is going to be in impact location, which will limit face angle accuracy. I think Trackman also has issues with face angle on big mishits.

    • Baller
      Baller commented
      Editing a comment
      I totally get what you're saying, but a shot that has hook spin is going to hook no matter what the start path is. Ball start path will just dictate where it starts hooking from.

      In your example of straight path, straight clubface, but toe, yes, it would have a slight draw in most cases, but how much draw would be best indicated by the spin and spin axes s, which are measured, and not by the location hit on the club face. Not all drivers make the ball spin equally even if hit in the same spot. The GC2 doesn't measure the club at all, and is very accurate because that's what it reads so well.

      Either way though, I'm betting that they can make the figures better on the ES16 and hope they do. I'd love to have the face and path actually measured, perhaps the same way Trackman does. It seems as though the hardware is as capable as both the GC2 and Trackman. I'm just hoping they can make the software as capable to give accurate figures.

    • andygg1986
      andygg1986 commented
      Editing a comment
      All you really need for simulation is ball speed, direction and spin (which the GC2 and ST provide). The ball will travel the same regardless of how you hit it if those remain the same. I was thinking that the club data and ball data would serve different purposes. Ball data is for simulation purposes and club data is for working on your swing. If they can measure club data accurately enough, I guess they could use that data to improve the accuracy of ball data as well. Either way, it is nice to see that they are making improvements over time.

  • #32
    can someone tell me what's supposed to come in the box when you get an es16? others have mentioned a calibration tools but i didn't get anything like that.

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    • #33
      Calibration sheet and tee came in mine, but they may leave it out to avoid confusion as they probably aren't needed, but you should ask them. Other than that was USB and power adapter, I believe.

      Comment


      • #34
        Is there a 'fee' for using TGC on the es16? I already have a TGC license with my SkyTrak, so that part is taken care of, but I thought I remember hearing that there was a fee you had to pay ernst?

        Comment


        • Baller
          Baller commented
          Editing a comment
          You have to pay ES $200 to be able to use it for simulation. You probably already paid that. They ask you when you order it if you'll be using it that way and they add it to the price.

      • #35


        $200 ...is this a one time fee or annual? to ES for sim play

        Comment


        • Baller
          Baller commented
          Editing a comment
          One time to allow for any simulator use, and not for each software package. It's just simply to allow it to work on any and all simulators.

        • FaultyClubs
          FaultyClubs commented
          Editing a comment
          Are you sure, Baller? PG just announced official support for the ES16 at $350 per year. That is a $100 premium going to somebody each year. They made it sound that was Ernest Sports annual fee.

        • Baller
          Baller commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, I'm sure the fee to ES is a one time fee, but that is not a fee for the software. That is a fee to ES to be able to sue other software. That $350/ year fee... is that to be able to use the PG software?

      • #36
        i guess my question would be .. if buy the ES16 and TGC ..,would i pay the one time fee at purchase and no annual fee after....i noticed on this site store(/golfsimulatorstore.com) there is a ES16 with TGC in a pkg ..if im in canada..not sure if it would affect repair/support issuses buying from a EU distributor...thnx for any help

        Comment


        • Baller
          Baller commented
          Editing a comment
          Never seen that store before. You can see it is run by Protee (now owners of TGC and also who run this board). That deal looks like it would be a $200 discount if there is no simulation fee.

          You should double check. You should also check with ES. Not sure if you want it, but not sure if you can get the protection plan from ES if you don't buy from them...but may be worth it. Honestly, I'd contact both and be sure of your options. They've both been great to work with.
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