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More Affordable Devices Coming soon...

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  • Not sure why the ES14 would get a bad wrap, it does exactly as described. Great training tool for irons distance control just don't get side spin numbers.

    Comment


    • If I recall the ES14 calculated LA and spin based on club input and basically just measured the ball direction and speed. So I think if you punched a low 8 Iron it would not show accurate LA and spin but instead show what it thinks that speed of ball would have done as far as LA and spin. A perfect hit ball will show accurate. I question any launch monitor that needs the club you are hitting to be entered to get its numbers.

      With the new one they show, ask first what it really measures. If anything is calculated as far as LA or spin, it is not any better than a P3Pro can do and that at least has course play.
      Mountain Time

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      • ES16 LM posts moved to: http://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/...amera-based-lm

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        • The thread originally said 'devices,' plural.

          So, a year later it's obvious that ES16 is one of them (although 'affordable' remains to be seen with that one).

          What is the other device(s)? Was Protee working on a launch monitor, perhaps? Is Foresight working on something new?

          Any concrete info, or just more industry speculation where we might actually find out about another one in 2017 or 2018?

          Comment


          • northgolf
            northgolf commented
            Editing a comment
            This thread could have been aptly titled: "Waiting for Godot".

          • TorchRedRob
            TorchRedRob commented
            Editing a comment
            sad and true

        • I heard a rumor through two different sources that Flightscope will be coming out with a very affordable unit in the next six months. Can anyone here put meat on that rumor? If the best you can say in "nope, I'm under NDA" that is still information.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by northgolf View Post
            I heard a rumor through two different sources that Flightscope will be coming out with a very affordable unit in the next six months. Can anyone here put meat on that rumor? If the best you can say in "nope, I'm under NDA" that is still information.
            Please don't take offence in any way, and I hope you are right as it will mean more competition.

            I love over these qualified (6 months) statements, because we have all been in he boat that we are waiting for the next big thing which is "just around the corner" and we end up never buying anything.

            For or those that are willing to wait, please read the whole thread on Skytrak and ES16, I am completely happy with my skytrak now but it took me a long time to buy due to the fact that these ice was not ready, and in that time, I had nothing.

            Comment


            • There is absolutely no way I can take offense at your post, I've been waiting to buy since the year before SkyTrak came out (and before that I watched the GSA 2 year LX saga). When ST was finally in a state where I'd buy it, the cash flow no longer allowed for it.

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              • Apparently big tax cuts coming as well!

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                • Originally posted by Mikkaat View Post

                  Please don't take offence in any way, and I hope you are right as it will mean more competition.

                  I love over these qualified (6 months) statements, because we have all been in he boat that we are waiting for the next big thing which is "just around the corner" and we end up never buying anything.

                  For or those that are willing to wait, please read the whole thread on Skytrak and ES16, I am completely happy with my skytrak now but it took me a long time to buy due to the fact that these ice was not ready, and in that time, I had nothing.
                  Right on. As we can see from what is going on with ES16, building an accurate, reliable launch monitor at a price where more people can afford it has turned out to be a much more significant undertaking than many thought.

                  Even if something else is announced at the PGA show in January, with the track record of existing new devices, it will likely be 2018 before it is ready for primetime.

                  Take home point: if you really want something and if you have the cash, pull the trigger now.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mikkaat View Post

                    Please don't take offence in any way, and I hope you are right as it will mean more competition.

                    I love over these qualified (6 months) statements, because we have all been in he boat that we are waiting for the next big thing which is "just around the corner" and we end up never buying anything.

                    For or those that are willing to wait, please read the whole thread on Skytrak and ES16, I am completely happy with my skytrak now but it took me a long time to buy due to the fact that these ice was not ready, and in that time, I had nothing.
                    No offense was taken. The item I heard rumored is now announced. It is the flightscope "Mevo". Under $500 for launch angle, spin, ball speed, & club head speed. This announcement is 13 days short of the end of the six month time window I was given, though it isn't shipping until March.

                    Comment


                    • goatbarn
                      goatbarn commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I bet a lot of people will have one of these. If people are buying that ES14-16 garbage, they will definitely buy this. Measured spin with stickers...will have to see if you can use it indoors. If not, stickers will be annoying, and then people lose the measured spin. Spin axis is missing, but will be good for people to know their carry distances on well struck, straight-ish shots.

                    • closedclubface
                      closedclubface commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I spoke with Flightscope earlier this week. They said it is just a range tool to use outside - no shot shape, but with the parameters like the ES14.

                  • Just seen that Sony have unveiled a new smartphone that is 4K and can run camera at 960frames/sec. we are not far off being able to turn a phone into a reasonably accurate launch monitor I think. I wonder if any of the big players are looking to this for the future???

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bennyg211 View Post
                      Just seen that Sony have unveiled a new smartphone that is 4K and can run camera at 960frames/sec. we are not far off being able to turn a phone into a reasonably accurate launch monitor I think. I wonder if any of the big players are looking to this for the future???
                      The camera is less than half of the issue. Its the software support to take the images and create the math, representing vertical launch angle, spin, spin axis, horizontal launch etc, all the way from a simple putt to a 180 mph ball speed. Impressive camera specs.

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                      • bennyg211
                        bennyg211 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Respectfully i disagree Bubba. The maths is the maths and there are many establish flight models, all leading to the same thing. I don't think physics really changes. The software is also do able and is as easy as the image capture allows. I really don't think it is too much of a stretch. The crutch is processing power for number crunching and camera quality and capture rate. I really don't think we're terribly far off something that is SkyTrak/GC2 standard is someone put a mind to it. Maybe only 2-3 years.

                      • bennyg211
                        bennyg211 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I should add that 2-3 years if there is a drive to do it. Hell, it could even be a kickstarted campaign type deal.

                      • Bubba22
                        Bubba22 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I vote that benny develops the software for spin-spin axis-vertical launch angle-horizontal launch angle and speed. Were not talking about the simulator software algos but the software to utilize logo, imperfections or whatever to determine the math before the simulator software is used. If you do , I can be a tester.

                    • Bubba is right. The software is a big part and has little to do with flight models.

                      But the idea is fundamentally flawed anyway. The new smartphone camera uses a rolling shutter so is irrelevant for a LM.

                      And the big players wouldn't spend $700 on a phone just to get the camera. They'd buy their sensor directly and make a custom design, and for that there are much more suitable and cheaper sensors already. The optical sensor in a Skytrak is about the price of a fancy Starbucks coffee. Sensors aren't the problem, it's the engineering needed to develop a LM and the small market used to recover the development costs.

                      Having said that, sensors are constantly improving and global shutter is becoming more common so next gen LM will always be better. But they aren't really being driven by manufacturing cost even today so it remains to be seen how the pricing evolves.

                      Comment


                      • Bubba22
                        Bubba22 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Not saying it cant be done but having been heavily involved with the Protee camera development as well as the Skytrak development, I can tell you its not easy and its expensive.

                      • FaultyClubs
                        FaultyClubs commented
                        Editing a comment
                        The devil is in the engineering details.

                        I think in time smartphones may have global shutter cameras because the market is driving them there. Silicon advances are making it easier too. Just not sure when since 1000 fps had been around in consumer cameras for 10 years without much progress.

                        Trigger capability is needed. Doubt that will happen for a while but could in time as smartphones advance in frame rates, resolution and cpu power.

                        But I don't see the smartphone market ever having a reason to include the necessary light source. So that might be a fatal flaw.

                        Also I hope you realize facial recognition is one of the largest areas of worldwide algorithmic development in machine vision since that market is billions of people. If spin algorithms got that much attention they'd be free and easy too!

                        Anyway great if it all happened. A smartphone and a $3 app to replace a GC2!
                        Last edited by FaultyClubs; 03-02-2017, 08:52 AM.

                      • bennyg211
                        bennyg211 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I agree guys, I never suggested it would be cheap, nor that manufacturers would want to do it. I was just saying that it would be possible. I don't know how big the teams are at SkyTrak, foresight, TM, Flightscope, Ernest, etc. I dont know, but I cant think that they are going to be much higher than 20-30 people actually engineering software and hardware. You suddenly put a team of 50-100 and you can deveop some good stuff with the right strategy. This is only reasonable if they aim to get more people on the platform. If you say that there are 25 million people playing golf and maybe 5% would be interested in LM , etc. Then you say an app could charge maybe $20 per year, that's a market worth $25million per year.
                        For the additional hardware needs, you could imagine buying a cheap case that housed the phone and had integrated triggering infra-red and a light source.

                    • Anyone read about the bridgestone Bfit app. Supposedly using an iphone 6 camera.

                      "The app records video of the user’s swing and analyzes it to provide swing speed, ball speed, launch angle, carry distance and total distance. Using this information BFIT will recommend the perfect golf ball for the user’s game."

                      Comment


                      • Jtangm04
                        Jtangm04 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm guessing it will be their most expensive ball

                      • wbond
                        wbond commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I don't think so. Thought i read that the E6 gets the most recommendations.
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