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  • Keeping everybody interested

    first of all, I don't want to offend anybody but I know I will. I feel the tour is losing a lot of interest. I hate to be the a hole to bring this up but somebody has to be. Every week we have to compete against the player that has reached that pinnacle of their game where they shot 15 strokes below their handicap. Nothing against the great rounds that were shot this week by ruslow. It is impossible for a near 0 handicap player to beat a 75-80 by a 20 handicap. I knew I was out of contention before I hit a shot this week, though I know I knew I played horrible , and I'm not trying to make an excuse for that. I know I am going to come across as an ass but I don't care, somebody has to be. I am perfectly happy to just play a round on a nice course but like I say I like for it to mean something.
    Keither brought up something about a fed ex cup based on gross scores. I will let him expand on that but something needs to be done. A lot of others have gone to the jnpg tour. I do not have the option, I just want this tour to get better. I mean do you guys really want to win an event shooting 160 when somebody busts their ass to shoot a 135? This is called a tour after all, you should have to earn your way a bit. Again, I'm perfectly happy to not be on here but if I am, I would be happy to say what others have not, people are losing interest ... obviously.
    So, I know I will catch some flack and I really don't care, I speak for the ones that have already quit giving a sh-- months ago. Let's do something.
    maybe 10 max handicap. maybe increase the rounds played? Something....
    throw your ideas out there!!
    again personally I couldn't care less but it would seem in best interest of everybody to do something.

  • #16
    The issue with High handicappers is that their Q-school experience is just getting their feet wet with hitting indoors, off a mat, reading virtual green, putting indoors etc... So naturally their scores are going to be very high as they learn the system. Any handicap from this would be inflated.

    My suggestion is that they do Q-school to be able to enter the tournaments and have "ameteur" status until they have 8-10 tournament rounds that establish their "tournament" handicap. Only then do they get to accrue points in a "net" tournament.

    You have to earn your way on to the tour.

    Comment


    • jrz
      jrz commented
      Editing a comment
      It agree. This is the easiest way to address this challenge. If it doesn't fix it then we can re-address at a later time.

    • Bnorman58
      Bnorman58 commented
      Editing a comment
      To back that statement up, I was 20,17 10 the first 3,weeks and haven't been over 10 since.

    • keither5150
      keither5150 commented
      Editing a comment
      I was also shooting 15 over at Little brook manor for my first couple of rounds.

  • #17
    That's a good suggestion. I will discuss this with the other tour commissioners. I guess have players at a 0 handicap until they have completed 10 tournament rounds.

    Comment


    • #18
      I like the idea of having a new player play at 0 handicap on the tournament initially, but 10 might be a little much. That's 2 1/2 months effectively. I don't know, just thinking outloud.

      Comment


      • jrz
        jrz commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't think the suggestion is to wait for completion of ten tournaments. Since there are generally two rounds per tournament the wait time would be about five weeks.

      • Joko
        Joko commented
        Editing a comment
        Ah, makes sense then.

    • #19
      This has been brought up before. Yes it is VERY frustrating to know that you have no chance of winning before you even hit your first shot. Is there a way to keep people from sand bagging? I don't know. Are people sand bagging? I don't know. I think one thing that would help is that the Q School rounds need to be on some of the "easiest" courses available. The whole idea is to get people used to playing on a sim right? So why give them hard courses to do that? That would help some of the really high handicaps.

      I know some people don't like comparing different online tours, but there are stats that say someone shouldn't be able to beat their handicap my so many strokes on so many rounds, or something. So, that tour will make immediate adjustments if it sees something that looks fishy whether intentional or not. For example I was at a 9 handicap if memory serves me correctly and I had a 3-4 week stretch where I was playing REALLY well. Well I shot a first round where my cap score was like -6 and I had a 4-5 stroke lead. Based on their formula I should not have been able to shoot that low on that difficult of a course based on the cap that I had. Well at the time I was playing either a 3 or 6 cap over here on TGC, so I knew that my cap was too high, but that's what it was at the time, but it didn't accurately match my playing level at that time. So it got adjusted mid-tournament to closer to where it needed to be. It was fair to everyone, and I didn't have an issue with it.

      I've had kind of the same thing happen here and there lately, in that I haven't played very well for a stretch and my cap has gone back up higher than where it has been, and now my game is back to the level it was at recently, so I've had a couple of really good scores. But once I get back down to that 3 cap I'm not going to be able to consistently put up numbers that are under that cap to make a run at any tournament. That's why I posted a couple of weeks ago about playing early just to see myself tumble out of anything other than the 20 points of thank you for playing :-). I'm only a couple of more rounds away from that again.

      IMO people need to come out of Q School with more accurate caps. People shouldn't be coming out of a four-round Q School or whatever and shooting that low under their cap IMHO.

      Comment


      • #20
        After reading all the comments on here, I personally feel that the best option would be to increase the Q-School rounds. That should take care of the "getting used to playing a sim" issue. Why not adopt more of an actual USGA handicap system, where your handicap is based on the 10 lowest of your last 20 rounds? Make Q-School 20 rounds over 5 different courses, and the handicap would be based on the 10 lowest scores. That way you actually "earn" your way onto the tour, and playing 4 rounds on each course should give a player a chance to improve over the rounds due to being familiar with the course.

        Just a thought!

        Comment


        • #21
          Below is a summary of the Top 10 from Houston and the number of events they've played including Houston. I was just looking on my own and thought I'd share as it relates to possibly increasing the minimum number of rounds needed to have an established handicap - so you can assume at least two rounds per event obvz. Also, and I get the concept of slope, but is having the Q-School at Augusta and Bethpage artificially inflating handicaps even more due to their difficulty, and then we're playing easier courses in the tournaments? The Honda is the only course I think I've played recently that rivals Bethpage or Augusta in difficulty. Maybe include some easier courses in Q-school? I enjoy the mix of easy/hard courses in the tournaments - full disclosure. Anyway, love the tourneys and the grind they create, and the nerves (yep, nerves).
          Top 10 at Houston Events Played
          Cashmir123 4
          Rsuslow 41
          Toolman6000 8
          Hibb34 3
          tommytuscan 6
          ecarl97 10
          DukeJF 14
          ncube 14
          MOTOX77 6
          FirGir 13

          Comment


          • #22
            Random thoughts from a high handicapper and bad golfer who has wanted to try the tour. I did q-school last year and just started Q school again (not sure I'll finish in allotted time). I have NO interest in playing 10 rounds just to qualify to play the tour, way too much of a time commitment for what? Adding to that, it takes way more then ten rounds to get comfortable with TGC and sim golf, so had I or anyone else jumped right in that handicap would still not have been a true reflection. Maybe my mediocre play diminishes the competitive juices because I just don't see the big deal. I look at the week to week winners and to be honest I'm drawn immediately to the gross scores anyways because I can't believe some of you guys can play that well!!

            Comment


            • DirtyGarry24
              DirtyGarry24 commented
              Editing a comment
              My opinion Mike, the sim helps 6 strokes a round at least once you get used to it. Could be more or less depending on the type of golfer you are.

              Perfect lies always, lies that aren't visually as punishing, no such thing as a flier, always lined up
              correctly. Greens are read for you. Etc...

              You really have to read your round based off of ball striking to get much out of this. Fairways and
              greens and proximity.

              I've been playing some IRL golf for a solid month now and can see the improvement from the sim. It's extremely incremental though. If honest, I'm a
              5 or 6 cap right now. Only way to improve for real is playing golf on grass and dealing with the lies.

              TGC cap is below scratch and gowing lower. I'm about 2 kids and 3 competitive rounds a week to getting back to there in real life. Not gonna happen...

          • #23
            Funny thread. I've been playing TGC since the first ever tourney. Anyone that knows me knows I hate handicapped anything. Handicaps favour high handicaps. I, however, am here for fun. Hitting balls and trying to score low is more important than winning to me.
            My Courses:
            World Par 3's by mthunt
            Toronto GC (L) mthunt
            Burlington G&CC by mthunt
            Weston G&CC by mthunt
            London Hunt Club L mthunt
            Park CC Lidar mthunt
            Sunningdale GC Robinson L
            Sunningdale GC Thompson L
            Muirfield Village (liDAR) First Ever Lidar course
            Country Club of Castle Pines (liDAR)
            The Sanctuary GC ProTee L
            The National GC L mthunt
            Mississaugua GC L mthunt
            Shaughnessy G&CC L mthunt
            Markland Woods CC mthunt
            Hidden Lake Old L mthunt
            Magna GC L mthunt
            Barrie CC L mthunt
            mthunt Range

            Comment


            • DirtyGarry24
              DirtyGarry24 commented
              Editing a comment
              I like this mentality. Play against your own abilities and weaknesses, try to improve. The chips will fall as they may.

              I have my own issues (as do many) with handicap scoring now and will in the future and they are not related to this forum or online tournament setting.

            • BlechBOX
              BlechBOX commented
              Editing a comment
              Well put. I am having a blast and I feel lucky to be apart of it.

          • #24
            I'm with you on just playing for fun but when you have a solid couple rounds and should be in the top 5 or so and then end up higher than 10th it's a bit annoying. With so many playing I think next season flights are in order. That would pretty much solve it.

            Comment


            • #25
              Agree with the slope of the q school rounds being on the harder side to an extent. Augusta at the yardage more about "around the green" toughness. Coupled with the newness of Sim golf it is promoting inflated caps. The graphic above does show that only 2 of the top 10 would be kicked out with the "10 round" rule. Would that satisfy the discussion? Not sure.

              Not a huge motivator for me personally, I love the competition and playing against the deamons in my head most of all. Playing good or bad for me is not defined by the leaderboards.

              Comment


              • DirtyGarry24
                DirtyGarry24 commented
                Editing a comment
                Not willing to argue here, but does 6 events not equal at least 12 rounds (minimum)? There's a good chance I'm off here jrz, just giving my 2 cents.

              • jrz
                jrz commented
                Editing a comment
                Why are you arguing with me? I obviously can't read that it said "events played" instead of "rounds played."
                I'm a dumbass again... Sorry about the back and forth.
                Last edited by jrz; 04-04-2017, 04:08 AM.

              • DirtyGarry24
                DirtyGarry24 commented
                Editing a comment
                Lol. No big deal jrz.

            • #26
              I have a pretty good feeling we all play for fun. Nobody said they didn't, myself included.

              Comment


              • #27
                Dot com tour for the less experienced. Work your way into the show.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Since I am a high handicapper I will chime in...

                  I won a tournament this year because I had 2 exceptional rounds (for me...) IRL I shoot anywhere from 90-115 depending on the day... I have only broken into the 80's less than a handful of times when playing TGC...

                  I choose to play in the tour for the fun of it and I always try to beat my own low scores regardless of where I end up scoring in the tour. Hell I even fall short of even breaking into the 90's... For me the tour just keeps me engaged & makes me feel like I have fun while keeping up with practice.

                  I think placing a max on the handicap to compete on the tour would not benefit players like myself and would discourage many from playing.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I'll jump in quickly from the high handicap, new sim guy side. I just finished q school with an avg score of 95. Quite honestly the very last thing I would want to do is finish anywhere near the top in a tournament. For me a win would be slowly moving up from dead last as my game improved. I'd be fine with a zero for many rounds until I got better/learned the sim. I completely get the need for some parity, but perhaps that can be earned over time? Thanks for letting me chime in.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      The purpose of the Q-school is to establish a roughly fair HCP for the TGC net tour. Since Q-school lacks competition, the resulting HCP is less reliable and new player's HCP, in a few cases, saw significant improvements soon after joining the TGC tour. To compensate for what is happening, there are two suggestions as follows:

                      Plan A. Simply take a hair cut on Q-school HCP, like the 2/3 suggested in an earlier comment. This is quick and rough, but it will turn current Q-school HCP into more competitive HCP

                      Plan B. Change Q-school into Q-tour: (with some of the following competitive features)

                      1. Q-tour plays parallel to TGC Tour, same weekly venue, same rules.
                      2. New players all start at Q-tour, compete with an initial HCP of Z (say 0 or 5), then follows the TGC HCP rules, with the initial two (or three) entries of Z kept and be used in the best 10 of past 20 HCP calculation until eventually being pushed out by the player's 20th rounds under tournament plays
                      3. Q-tour players earn Q-tour points which is structured similar to current TGC net tour points. Graduation from Q-tour is effected when X amount of Q-Tour points (say 150 points) have been earned. So faster graduation is desired, hence an incentive for competitive play
                      4. Upon Q-tour graduation, the player's Q-tour points count toward regular TGC tour points after a Y% (say 30%) hair cut. Again, faster graduation is reinforced.

                      Plan B is more robust and more admin work, but new players hit the ground competing with fellow players which seems to be attractive to many.

                      Comment


                      • jrz
                        jrz commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I like plan b very much.

                      • DukeJF
                        DukeJF commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You can never go wrong with Plan B, it's saved me tons of money and aggravation over the years!

                      • Bnorman58
                        Bnorman58 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Plan b is awesome! I like that it is competitive. Good work.
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