Help with decisions, GC2, Flightscope or Ernest ES16

[msgn]

Hi everyone!

Did find this site about 3-4 weeks ago and been reading it everyday since. Really good site and good job by everyone for sharing and trying to help each other!
I have some questions and i would really need some help, there is probably people before me that has written a post like this, but i can't find any so sorry if im making a new one.

Im looking to buy a launch monitor, new or used it doesn't matter to me as long as it works as it should. The thing is, my budget is kind of tight.. I was thinking something around 5000 Euros 6000 dollars. Maybe i could raise my budget with 1000 euros / 1000 dollars if i find a unit that shows all the data i would like to have..
Im asking for all the help i can get, maybe there is stuff i have not been thinking of, or maybe you guys have some good tips for me. Sorry if this post is going to be a bit long. All the help would be MUCH appreciated! Also, if you have a used unit or new to sell, please feel free to contact me.

So i have the chance to choose between:

* Flightscope Xi+ its around 4.995 dollars or 5000 euros. (new) (don't know about warranty, but i think a new one comes with one year, is that correct?)

* GC2 without a HMT = around 4375 Euros (used unit directly for foresight europe). i think its coming with a 90 days warranty. "ONLY GC2, NO HMT"
But a GC2 without a HMT doesn't feel like its something for me. I really want all the data it shows if you have the HMT.
If i would buy a HMT it would cost around 4375 Euros more. So around 8750 for both. And that is sadly outside of my budget for the moment..

* ES ernest es16 - 5.995 Euro (new) which i believe comes with a 2 year warranty it im correct.
Did email their Europe reseller but have not gotten any respons within 4 days now i think? feels kind of bad? or maybe they have a lot of stuff to do giving that is the PGA 2017 show?
But when i emails both Flighscope and Foresight they emailed me back within a day...


Data down below is the data a Flightscope Xi + shows (if im correct)

Ball Speed
Club Speed
Smash Factor
Carry Distance
Roll Distance
Total Distance
Lateral Landing
Shot Dispersion
Vertical Launch Angle
Horizontal Launch Angle
Angle of Attack
Spin
Spin Axis
Spin Loft
Club Speed Profile
Club Acceleration Profile

This is almost enough for me, the only downside is that it doesn't show:

* Face to path
* Face to target
* Club path

I would really like this data.. thats a bit annoying, otherwise i would probably ordered one already..


And the Ernest ES16 does show (and again, if im correct):

Ball Data:

Carry Distance
Total Distance
Roll Distance
Ball Speed
Lateral Carry
Distance
Lateral Total Distance
Launch Angle
Launch Direction
Angle
Spin Rate
Spin Axis,
Maximum Height
Hang Time
Shot Dispersion
Landing Angle

Club Data:

Club HeadSpeed
Smash Factor
Angle of Attack
Spin Loft
Face Angle
Club Path
Dynamic Loft

So this does not show face to path, but shoes face angle and club path.. Is that something you could "almost" calculate the face to path with? You think i would "miss" the face to path data?

So if i would choose and have a bigger budget i would buy a GC2 with a HMT so i can get all the data.. But is just a tiny to expensive for me.. and the problem is, if someone would sell me a used unit outside of europe and ship it. It would be a big chance i would have to pay a customs fee, and that is around 25% which brings the price up even more.. Any ideas how to get around this? I know people saying that if they send it as a "gift" there will not be a customs fee but i think that doesn't work anymore..

To some other questions:

How much "can" it cost to repair a broken unit? Lets say i have a flightscope, gc2 or ES16.
What can the repair charges be? I know it probably depends on what has happened to the unit, but maybe some of you could write down what you have been charged for repairs?

The thing is. A Flightscope and a GC2 cost more then my car so i would really like to know how much everything could coast if something breaks. And other fee's.

Also, if i buy a used unit (from a private person) would i then need to pay a transfer fee (changing owner) on the unit? I read something about that but im not sure if its true? Maybe someone could verify that?

Also i would ONLY be connecting the device to a Andriod tablets or phones if that works? (do not use apple products, and will never do)

Also, lets say i buy a flightscope, gc2 or a ES16, would i then still need to buy something else? I know there is a small fee for the app flightscope have but is there some bigger fee's i could expect or some other stuff i would need to buy/pay for?



What unit is best for indoor use and hitting balls in to a net? between Gc2, flightscope and the ES16?
also is there other advantages/dis advantage between the units? I would probably want to get a simulator going in the future so it would be good if the devices could connect to a simulator, what unit would be best for that? I see here on the forum that many of you use the gc2, have not seen many use flightscope.. Which one do you think is best for simulator golf? And also showing most true numbers?

Im going to use the unit mostly in my garden hitting balls in to a net (when i do not have time to drive to the driving range) and during the winter season indoors. Sometimes on the driving range at the golf club, but mostly in the garden or indoors..


Sorry if the post is long, im kind of new to the launch monitors, been reading a lot the last months about them so getting more and more understanding about them, but there is probably a lot more that i do not know. And maybe there is stuff i have not been thinking off.. Any tips/ideas would be much appreciated.


Also, if there is someone that have compares GC2 with Flightscope and ES 16, please feel free to give my all the pointers you can. How many non reads, which unit is best for indoor use and which is easiest to connect to a simulator, are there any delays before the unit show the shot on the ipad/computer, how big is the mark where you place the ball etc..
I could probably go on for ours asking questions.. so just going to stop now, if you have any thing at all to say about one (or all) of this units, please feel free to do so, would help me a lot and i would appreciate it a lot!


Best regards.

[J.R.GOLF]

Can't quite answer all your points but in a nutshell, I have tested side by side the gc2 and the xi tour for close to six months and I can tell you 100% that indoors the gc2 is better than flightscope. Ended up selling my gc2 only because flightscope was better price wise for fitting purposes and plenty good enough for fitting , but gc2 with hmt indoors is better but costs more. If you want less misreads, better accuracy for spin and shot shape indoors, then gc2 is better period.

[msgn]

Thank you for taking time and trying to help me!
As i suspected it feels like the GC2 is the way to go.

Thanks again!

[Jasonstanley]

Once bought do u need to pay yearly fees to foresight? Also can you buy TGC without buying their proprietary software? ThNks

[Tonyd9366]

I only have the gc2. To me ball data is far more important than club data.. I have an indoor sim but sometimes I take my gc2 to the range to get ball numbers too. That's the nice thing about it. The spin you produce to me tells me what my club is doing for the most part. It also depends what kind of player you are. 10+ handicaps would benefit more with more data ball and club data. Single digits and pros not so much, because those guys can see their ball flight and figure out what they are doing wrong.

[msgn]

Hi! Thank you for taking the time and trying to help me.

I guess I could probably live with the GC2 without the HMT.. As you say, if you can see your ball data and ball flight its kind of easy to know if you are hitting it out to in or in to out etc. But i would really like to have club head speed at least.

What indoor sim do you use? And whats the price for getting the sim program?

Does the GC2 come with a built in program as driving range and/or skill program? Or is that something i have to buy separately as well? Or can you use that if downloading their app?

[tlhammond5]

I own the GC2 and love it. I was able to hit a few shots on the ES16 a few days back and it was great! Stay away from Flightscope indoors, but it's a toss up between the other two. I'd say GC2 is the more trusted machine due to its longevity on the market.

[msgn]

Thank you for you answer!

By looking at some videos on youtube it feels like you have to stand kind of close the the unit when hitting the ES16 if compared with the GC2. Was that something you felt? To me its not a problem but i think if i would have some friends over they would feel kind of uncomfortable standing so closed to a monitor that coast 6000 euros. Otherwise i get more data with the ES16.. But as you say, it feels like GC2 have a more trusted machine, and there is a lot of people recommending it..

Thank for the heads up on the Flightscope, my feeling was also that this unit is not the best for indoor use.

Any other stuff you could tell me about the GC2? Does the GC2 come with a built in program as driving range and/or skill program? Or is that something i have to buy separately as well? Or can you use that if downloading their app? Whats the price for the app or is it free to download if you own a GC2?

If i would buy a simulator software is the only software FSX i can choose or is there others? When i talked to a seller on foresight he said that it coast 2.995 euros for FSX software + one course and Additional courses 185 euros.


Foresight wants around 4375 euros for a used GC2. I saw in an older post that you wrote: " You can pickup a good used GC2 for $3500 or less." that would be great for me, then i would probably afford the HMT as well. Just wonder where to look for used GC2's? is it on ebay? I've been looking on ebay for weeks now and i think there has only been one or two units ut fore sale and for a price more expensive then foresight offered me.

Also, if i buy a used unit (from a private person) would i then need to pay a transfer fee (changing owner) on the unit? I read something about that but im not sure if its true?

Oh and just one more thing:

How much can it cost to repair a broken unit? What can the repair/service charges be? I know it probably depends on what has happened to the unit. But if you have some info about that it would be much appreciated.


Best regards!

[tlhammond5]

I agree with Mthunt... Buy a GC2 and forget it. I think the ES16 is good and will get better over time, but the GC2 is the better unit today. As for the range software... You have to purchase it seperately unless you can find a good used GC2 with a security dongle. I bought one new over 6 years ago, and I recently bought one new from a forum member here. The used one is just as good as the new one. You can't go wrong with the GC2! It's a great machine!

And BTW... Yes, you do have to place to ball closer to the ES16 than the GC2. The difference is around 6 to 8 inches. At first I felt like it was too close, but never thought about it after a couple of swings.

[mthunt]

I have a GC2 and an ES16 in my house. There's no comparison in my opinion. The GC2 hands down wins on accuracy, ease of use and reliability. The ES has a better integration with TGC and has built in club data but a lot of it is calculated. Get a GC2 and don't look back. You won't regret it. If you really want club data get the HMT. It's super accurate and has more measured data points than even Trackman.

[msgn]

Thanks for your comment! Much appreciated.

I guess everything points to a GC2. Sad part is that i probably have to wait with the HMT.. Just breaks my budget for the moment..

Any other stuff you could tell me about the GC2? Does the GC2 come with a built in program as driving range and/or skill program? Or is that something i have to buy separately as well? Or can you use that if downloading their app? Whats the price for the app or is it free to download if you own a GC2?

Best regards!

[TorchRedRob]

If the 4375 euro unit from foresight has been checked over and comes with a 90 day warranty and is already going to be put into your name, then that is the way to go in my opinion.

If you search for sold units on ebay, you'll see they have sold between $4800 and $6000+. Then, you'll have to pay $500 to foresight to transfer ownership on top of that, and foresight probably hasn't looked at those units either.

You really can't even find a unit for $3500 or less anymore. The used demand (and price) has gone up since then. 4375 euro directly from foresight is as good as you'll get, in my opinion. You can always add HMT later if you feel you need it.

If you just want club speed, pick up a cheap voice caddie or swing speed radar to sit next to it in the meantime. I believe I have read that those are pretty accurate for club speed. You can get the swing speed radar for about $120, and the voice caddie is about $270.

[msgn]

Thanks for taking the time and answering my questions.

Just wondering. If i buy the GC2 (without HMT and other programs) can i still get some sort of skill/driving range practice thru the app?

Best regards.

[TorchRedRob]

The app will show you all the shot data, trajectories, club comparisons, etc. and will email it to you as a .csv file. It does not show real time flight or have a skills challenge. You need FSX (or FR1) for that sort of thing. TGC and JNPG ranges are nice, but both are lacking the polish of the foresight software. I think TGC is working on better Sim range data, and I hope JNPG will too.

[tlhammond5]

I agree with TorchRedRob on most points, but I have found that the TGC ranges work just as well as the ForeSight ranges once you get the settings dialed in for boost, spin, etc. It's also important to use ranges with the correct surfaces. For example... I've created a few ranges for TGC, and some will roll out way too much if you don't use the correct surfaces when building the range.

When I adjusted my settings for TGC, I used the ForeSight range software and TGC software simultaneously. This allowed me to adjust the TGC settings until overall data was very close. I'd be happy to share those settings if you decide to purchase the GC2 and TGC. TGC is a blast!

[leoapd]

If you are referring to the iPad app, there are no skill games. From reading recent posts, it is now free. Good for gapping and averages of individual clubs with distance, spin, and launch data, but no club data (without HMT). I have been using it since yesterday, and for my limited setup with just a net and mat (for now), it works. With the new update, it is very much geared towards GCQ with Wifi connection, and the ability to link that data to FSX live.

[msgn]

Hi! Thanks for trying to help me.

Yeah, the thing im wondering is. If i buy a GC2 and download the app, will i then be able to see all the ball data on the app? and ball flight as well? And save records of my shots,distances spin etc? without buying an expensive program?

I guess the app is also available on andriod as well? If im correct the seller told me all the devices connect to andriod.

Thanks again.

Best regards

[mthunt]

The app will only satisfy you for a day. It's good for a range session if you want to look at the data but it'll only give you what you see on the device...numbers

[leoapd]

Yes. The iPad app will show you all relevant ball data, and that data can be saved for future reference, and can also be saved by individual clubs. You can create different users and multiple sessions to track progress. The ball flight is displayed as as a graphic, and not in real time. Look at this post (http://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/...034#post100034) which talks about it a little more and has some screen shots. I am not familiar with Android version, but GC2 does connect to Android devices.

[msgn]

Thanks for this! Appreciate it a lot.

Is it possible in some way to get a driving range on the tablet that shows ball flight live?

[mthunt]

All you get with a GC2 is this screen readout. Anything else you buy separately.

[msgn]

Okay. Is it possible in some way to get a driving range on the tablet that shows ball flight live? Or is that only available on simulators with computers connected?

[mthunt]

Only on computer. Skytrak will show ball flight on a tablet.

[tlhammond5]

I have a GC2 and an ES16 in my house. There's no comparison in my opinion. The GC2 hands down wins on accuracy, ease of use and reliability. The ES has a better integration with TGC and has built in club data but a lot of it is calculated. Get a GC2 and don't look back. You won't regret it. If you really want club data get the HMT. It's super accurate and has more measured data points than even Trackman.

I would take Mthunt's advice. As I said... I was only able to hit a few balls on the ES16. The GC2 has been great for me. And to answer your question... Yes, the ES16 was a little close, much like the SkyTrac.

[msgn]

Thanks for your help!

[msg]

Hey there. We almost have the same user name!

I have experienced using the GC2 and Flight Scope only indoors every winter for the last three years. I can confidently say that FS indoors is not as accurate as GC2. Maybe because of the lack of enough space or the calibration of the unit. Not sure since I don't own them both, I just rent to practice. The GC2 gives me distances close to my real life distances while FS is always giving me 10 yards, sometimes more of what I usually get. I don't use golf balls with the metallic sticker so the spin numbers too are just estimates so that also messes the results up.

Last week I needed to tinker with the Flight Scope unit that we were renting because it was just awful with the distances and direction it was giving me. Turns out someone moved it so the alignment got messed up. Everything was turning right, way right. We were able to fix it but still not as GC2 accurate.

The confidence that GC2 gives me is irreplaceable. With Flight Scope, I take the numbers I see with a grain of salt. If I have the money I would get a GC2 with HMT. But right now my realistic goal is either the Sky Trak or the Es16 or just the GC2 without HMT.I plan on just using my future launch monitor as a practice tool if ever. So like you, a net might be enough for me. Maybe when I have enough money, I can try to buy a TGC game and a impact screen and a projector.

I won't have the house that I am going to set up the unit, ready till August so I still have some months to think about it. I like what ES is doing with the ES16. With the constant updates it is getting better and better. With the club date they provide, if they can get it really stable, I might get that instead. Who knows?

Good luck in your hunt!

[msgn]

Thank you for taking time and commenting.

The GC2 with HMT would be my first choice, sadly outside of my budget maybe i will try the flightscope just to see how it does, and live with that the data is not as accurate. Maybe one day there will be a good indoor unit that shows true data for a cheaper price

[mn44]

The thing that bothers me with the es16 is that the data that is measured isn't super accurate to begin with, and then it it using that inaccurate data to calculate other data points like club head data. At that point, I'm not sure how useful it even is to be relying on it to fix your swing....could even be detrimental.
Would be nice to see a gc2 HMT head to head vs an es16.

[msgn]

Yeah that does not sound so good. And i do not like that the unit is so close to the ball without having some protection case.

Thanks for commenting!