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  • GSA vs. Protee Simulator research

    In one of my earlier postings I was talking about labeling and putting together a list of sims from top to bottom I am now doing some research on this and starting the process I will take that data, options for the sim and price points with ratings and where they are on a top to bottom list and send it to Bubba I hope and have him pick it apart. So my question is this I was looking into the GSA system that Keither owns and its very close to a Protee. But I see that GSA are advancing there system on cameras and new mats trying to always improve on and grow, what is the thought or expectations for Protee owners, is anything in Research and development to improve this system. I know there is a point that how much is to much but I do not think we are there for a Protee yet, I think that if this is it for protee on the system what is going to happen a couple years from now as everyone is moving forward, ES16, the GC2 with HMT and more is on the way.
    Last edited by aeroburner; 11-17-2016, 03:48 PM.

  • #16
    Do you think it really required 10-20 hours of tweaking? Or do you think it could be done in less time to get someone to about 95% there? That seems like quite a lot of time to get there.

    Comment


    • aeroburner
      aeroburner commented
      Editing a comment
      I have a few hours for sure in the set up but I was really fighting my woods and mis reads and that took many hours of fighting through with protee support from the white club heads also the sensor needed a little assistance as unless your a machine every swing is different with every user and club data is important to making the ball flight and sensor dictates this

  • #17
    I think to really go in and understand all the settings and their impact that it will take 10 or so hours..... Now, once again, that is for someone who is a tinkerer like me. As ProTee states, the default settings are fine for a lot of players and you can do a basic installation in a couple of hours...

    Comment


    • #18
      I am really interested in the ProTee system over the Skytrak due to club data, and no ridiculous shot delay time. Both are in my price range. GC2 + TGC is a bit more than the budget allows. My main purpose for getting a system is for real life game improvement, building consistency, and figuring out accurate distances that will help me make the right decisions on the course. Secondary usage will of course be for sim golf fun.

      Some background.. I went from a 4 handicap to 20 currently due to years of not playing and shoulder surgeries. Currently working on massive swing flaws from flexibility loss and side spin issues to try to get back to where I was (or better) after a 20 year break from golf.

      As someone who is now very inconsistent getting back into the game after many years off, the ProTee raises a lot of questions on accuracy without tinkering. I have read tons of posts about tweaking settings to get the right ball speeds or adjusting drag and all kinds of parameters to get proper distances or readings, etc, etc.. My question is how in the heck is someone inconsistent and unsure of these numbers supposed to set this thing up for accuracy? (I'm trying to figure the numbers out actually, hence the reason for wanting a system in the first place)... How am I suppose to use the ProTee system with any accuracy? It's not that I mind tinkering at all, my concern is I don't know what it should say so anything I do is just a random guess or worse, I could be hiding flaws in my game and making them look better than they should which is not helping me improve, just making me a better sim golfer.

      Correct me if I am wrong but it seems people are having to mess with settings to get the desired results they "expect" to see for sim play.. I want the REAL numbers, not to mess with settings to get it to say what I think I want. I want it to say what it really IS. Is this not possible with the ProTee unit?

      Is the ProTee a viable option for what I am looking for and I am just not reading into it right? Or should I just keep saving for a GC2 to get real data and just never be able to have club data due to crazy high cost for HMT?


      Last edited by RyanP; 02-23-2017, 06:43 AM.

      Comment


      • aja
        aja commented
        Editing a comment
        As pointed out previously, ProTee is very accurate with it's default settings. It also can be tinkered with, if you choose.

        Once it' s set, it's pretty well bang on. Accuracy is not a concern.

    • #19
      One thing that needs to be understood about ProTee and GSA.... The reason you just can't turn it on and have it be accurate is that every enclosure is different. If I move my Vcam 6 inches towards the center line.... my speed will increase. If I raise or lower the Hcam..... same result. Even the camera tilt has an effect. Once you are set up and have dialed in one club. All the other clubs will be close. Tinkering will come in when people are trying to perfectly duplicate their real life game. For example..... Once I had my 7 iron dialed in .... I noticed that my higher LA shots were going too far. So I added a little speed decrease which decreases the speed more as the LA goes up. Now all my clubs are accurate. With both systems there is almost infinite adjustment for speed and spin. I have my system, which now has the sensor mat added, running really well. With the sensor mat I can draw and fade, and when I have a terrible shot.....those are well represented as well. IMO club data is invaluable information. Since getting the mat in Dec. I have dropped my handicap another couple of strokes. If you are looking to put in the least amount of effort as possible and open up a box and be playing within an hour.......You need to buy the GC2. The perfect system would have a sensor mat added to a GC2.

      Comment


      • #20
        Originally posted by keither5150 View Post
        If I move my Vcam 6 inches towards the center line.... my speed will increase. If I raise or lower the Hcam..... same result. Even the camera tilt has an effect. Once you are set up and have dialed in one club. All the other clubs will be close. .
        This is my concern.. How would I even know if it's off adjustment a few inches and the speed needs to be adjusted? That is the reason I want a system.. to figure out my accurate numbers. It almost sounds like you need to borrow a GC2 or Skytrack side by side with the ProTee to get this thing dialed in to proper numbers.. then it's good to go?

        The perfect system would have a sensor mat added to a GC2.
        Is that possible to do? Or just a hypothetical..

        Thanks for the reply.

        Comment


        • keither5150
          keither5150 commented
          Editing a comment
          Funny that you say that....... I have Chris S with his Skytrak coming over on Saturday. I am confident that my system is accurate for full swing shots. It's that 1/2 swing with the 56 that I am wondering if I am long or short. I would guess that I am within 10-15% or so. If we have time, he can get a tour round in. I am not even sure if he can hit in my basement..... he's 6'3" I have 8'8" height.

          I have a GSA PX5 system which is very similar to the ProTee system. I like GSA's set up for putting better.... don't have to put over a sensor or a change in material. I can't imagine putting being better on a sim. GSA is less money but ProTee is a bigger company with stellar service. Martin at GSA and ProTee used to be together.... my guess is that ProTee bought him out and he started GSA. I can surely endorse GSA's PX5. But until I get to try the color club data cameras, I can't endorse that method of club data collection. As for ball spin...... GSA does such a great job calculating ball spin with the club data, it's crazy. I have hit about 200 or so 7 and 8 irons at Golftown's GC2. I added the sensor mat just before Xmas..... after a factory defect was taken care of (which required me to send it back) it has worked great. I am surprized at how quickly I picked up shot shaping.... watch a few YouTube videos and take some pointers from a local golf pro.... and I can do it. I recently went to an outdoor range 2 weeks back... ( 14 C ) Even with their lousy mats and cheap balls, I could fade and draw the ball just like on the GC2 and at home. After 2 trips to GT's GC2..... I decided to back off my spin levels by about 10% . This made my sim more closely resemble the GC2 and the outdoor range. If in the spring... I find that my spin is a little light.... I can always add it back on. That is the nice thing about ProTee and GSA......with almost infinite adjustment, you will be able to match your real life game. If you feel that your swing is too inconsistent to set up the sim properly, invite a friend who may be more familiar with his swing. I know my distances very well. I could calibrate a GSA sim in less than an hour once the initial install is done. Set up one club..... test the others, make adjustments until all are accurate. Club data is very important if you are serious about improving your game.

        • keither5150
          keither5150 commented
          Editing a comment
          Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. Of course it is possible..... will it happen? I can't see it happening any time soon. One would have to figure out what trumps what....... If both are measured correctly.... no problem. If ball spin and club data don't jive, perhaps ball direction could be the deciding factor???? All I know is that if the sensor mats were priced around $1000, and they worked with the LM's.... there would be a lot of sales.

      • #21
        Keither5150 wrote: GSA is less money but ProTee is a bigger company with stellar service.
        Unless I made a mistake, the last time I looked the standard Protee Base Pack with TGC was cheaper than the GSA equivalent (PX4 with TGC).

        Comment


        • #22
          Originally posted by RyanP View Post
          This is my concern.. How would I even know if its off? That is the reason I want a system.. to figure out my accurate numbers.
          Its a catch-22 alright and I don't see anyone really answering your question. Unfortunately I've played on one but I've never set one up so can't help much.

          Have you asked protee? What do they say about this question?

          If you set up the system exactly as they describe I'm wondering what kind of variation is typical? If it's just fine tuning that different than gross errors.

          Does protee or experienced users have methods to verify installation without needing to buy a skytrak or gc2! It's been around long enough you'd think someone would have good tips.

          Comment


          • keither5150
            keither5150 commented
            Editing a comment
            GSA has, and ProTee probably has as well.... set up diagrams. If you follow the setup exactly, the default settings with GSA would work. My cameras are not in their idea position. So I had a little adjusting to do to make sure all clubs were accurate. Now that I am familiar with the system, I could do these adjustments in less than an hour or about 100 balls hit. It sounds like Ryan has concern about accuracy..... does it really matter if the ball travels 155 or 158 yards? IRL you have to make all kinds of adjustments due to course conditions and wind. Once you get your game back on track... you will know if your sim is accurate. Both GSA and ProTee are great sims to work on your game. It's not really worth it to lose sleep over 3 or 4 yards. If it is, buy a GC2. If you set up a sim in your house, you will not have a hard time finding friends to come over and help calibrate it. Maybe consider taking a few lessons to help you get going down the right path.

        • #23
          PX5 plus TGC and screen = ProTee base pack 2.
          PX5 $3500 screen $1000 TGC $1000 No putting sensor needed. = $5500
          Pro Tee base pack 2 = On sale for $6900
          Pro tee base pack 1 = $3600

          PX4 ( new PX4) which has 2 banks of ball sensors and 2 rows of club sensors, vcam > ProTee base pack 1 .... same as PX4 but one bank of ball sensors.

          PX4 = $4000 with TGC Or you could buy a PX2 mat plus vcam (old PX4) for $3400 incl TGC.

          base pack 1 plus TGC 3600

          I have used my PX5 system in old PX4 mode for a complete round and direction is calculated so well that I had to double check that I disabled my Hcam. I did this to help a guy with his PX4. It is shocking how well direction is calculated from just path and face angle.



          The new PX4 is a PX3 mat with Vcam. The only reason you would get a PX2 mat... is if you had the Hcam already. Confused yet? Martin needs to hire someone to help with his site. It is a little bit too much information and to keep everything current would be a pain. The old PX4 is less money, the new PX4 is slightly more but with an upgraded board..... what good is the extra row????? I guess it would make ball speed calculations more accurate. My PX2 mat calculated direction incredibly well with no ball direction sensors.

          I bought my PX2 mat when it was on sale at Xmas for $900.

          Why would ProTee have to be cheaper? They are a larger company with a large customer base, great reputation and have a great product. The only advantage that I see with GSA is the putting experience and price.
          I used to putt over a sensor before I upgraded my trigger system. Not putting over a sensor is great.....Putting over the same material from start to screen is great.

          Most customers would be purchasing the base pack 2 or the PX 5 and those two are as close to apples to apples as you will see in a golf sim. And apples to apples, GSA is a little less money.



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          • #24
            Originally posted by keither5150 View Post
            PX5 = $5500
            Pro Tee base pack 2 = On sale for $6900


            Pro tee base pack 1 = $3600
            PX4 = $4000 with TGC
            Agreed, except I think you compared the GSA in US $ with the Protee in CAD $

            The Protee Base 2 = $4995 Euros = $5290 usd
            The Protee Base 1 = $2600 Euros = $2750 usd

            If correct the Protee is cheaper in both counts. And a lot cheaper in the case of the PX4 / base pack 1 system.
            Last edited by FaultyClubs; 02-24-2017, 08:23 AM.

            Comment


            • ProTee United
              ProTee United commented
              Editing a comment
              How about just switching it to the currency you would like to see using the currency selector. Its on the top right on the left of the login | register | cart.

            • FaultyClubs
              FaultyClubs commented
              Editing a comment
              Protee: The mobile site doesn't show this? At least I don't see it or it's too hard to find. When I force to the desktop version I do see what you are talking about. I've only looked at your site while on the smartphone (Chrome).

            • ProTee United
              ProTee United commented
              Editing a comment
              Good find. It will switch to right currency based on your country, but it should indeed show the selector on your mobile. Will look into this.

          • #25
            Sorry to bring this up but its not just an issue of cost. There is plenty of evidence that ProTee systems require less work to calibrate, actually do all that they claim and have top notch customer support compared to the GSA offerrings. This is backed up by numerous posts on this and other forums.
            Don't make the mistake of choosing based on price.
            Last edited by aja; 02-25-2017, 12:58 AM.

            Comment


            • #26
              Who are we kidding?.... There is no debate. Anyone on this site would be buying from ProTee. Although I have not had issues with GSA's service, others have. And in today's age of public forums, unless you have outstanding service, you are walking uphill against the wind. Quite a few GSA users don't visit the forum anymore due to the consensus towards GSA. Some of them have said that they don't have time for the forum because they are too busy golfing.


              It's obvious that Martin at GSA and ProTee used to be together. And it's more obvious that Martin was bought out and started GSA. I am sure there are tiny differences between the two products. If I were a betting man....and I am.... I would bet that Martin designed everything. So, who do you want to buy from? The big company with great service or the engineer that built it all?

              And once set up correctly both systems works flawlessly. I have had 4 system misreads in the last 5000 shots or so. Every misread had an issue of the data being transferred correctly to TGC. The data was accurate, the communication to TGC failed. I will have the odd misread when a ball is in the FOV.....silly me for using hundreds of balls while playing.

              The fact is that I have a GSA system and I think it works great. I have the money to buy a GC2 but I really don't want to lose the club data. It could be invaluable if my game goes to hell. I feel that my system is so accurate that it would be a waste of money to change.

              Perhaps if and when I build a new house, I may go GC2 or GCQ ( if you can get TGC at that time). Other than simplicity during a new build, I would rather have what I have.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by gene438 View Post
                I think to really go in and understand all the settings and their impact that it will take 10 or so hours..... Now, once again, that is for someone who is a tinkerer like me. As ProTee states, the default settings are fine for a lot of players and you can do a basic installation in a couple of hours...
                I agree with Gene here. I'm probably even more of a tinkerer then most really but definitely more then 10 hours. Easy . . . I suggest stick with the default and save yourself the possible drama.

                Comment


                • keither5150
                  keither5150 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I can see many hours involved if you choose to explore and test every available adjustment. For the most part an experienced user can dial the settings in within an hour or so. Just think about everything that you have learned about setting up and calibrating your system. If you had to go to someone's house and set it up... you could probably do it within an hour.

              • #28
                GSA has, and ProTee probably has as well.... set up diagrams. If you follow the setup exactly, the default settings with GSA would work. My cameras are not in their idea position. So I had a little adjusting to do to make sure all clubs were accurate. Now that I am familiar with the system, I could do these adjustments in less than an hour or about 100 balls hit. It sounds like Ryan has concern about accuracy..... does it really matter if the ball travels 155 or 158 yards? IRL you have to make all kinds of adjustments due to course conditions and wind. Once you get your game back on track... you will know if your sim is accurate. Both GSA and ProTee are great sims to work on your game. It's not really worth it to lose sleep over 3 or 4 yards. If it is, buy a GC2. If you set up a sim in your house, you will not have a hard time finding friends to come over and help calibrate it. Maybe consider taking a few lessons to help you get going down the right path.
                If it is just 3-4 yds off with default settings it isn't a big deal.. this is what I don't know about this system? Is it that accurate with default settings??? If it is 15-20+ yds off and I don't know it, that is a problem as it will not help me make IRL course decisions if it is massively inaccurate without tinkering. All I see on all the posts is everybody is changing all kinds of settings to get what they want it to show. Nobody says anything about accuracy with default settings and default setup so I have no idea how accurate this system is baseline.

                Yes, already taking lessons.

                I wish I could just afford GC2 with HMT lol. Sounds like it would be a lot easier to just know your data is correct and not worry about it.
                Last edited by RyanP; 02-25-2017, 06:10 PM.

                Comment


                • gene438
                  gene438 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ryan, even if you had the money, the GC2 with HMT will have some issues...no system is perfect. If you look at the postings for every device on this board, you will see posts with users needing help or having issues with their system.....it's just part of the simulator world.

              • #29
                i agree on the set up with protee i can almost do it with my eyes closed now, but i have put many hours on fine tuning system and even Gene had issues lately that we worked out together that he missed that I saw in his ALT E, its all one team on protee to help others get the most out of there system.

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                • #30
                  How well does chipping and pitching work with the ProTee vs other systems? 60 degree wedge shots?

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