Advice or dissuasion

[cmckelvmi]

I apologize for the long post!

Hello, I have been a happy Skytrak user for the past 17 months. However, I have always been interested in devices that have HMT ability. I am looking for insight from users that have GC2 with HMT or similar devices such as GCQuad. First concern I have is cost versus value and of course my layman abilities to be able to capitalize on the technology. Basically I am a terrible golfer and have this fantasy that I can help my game with more data. I rationalize this thought by how much I have improved since getting my SkyTrak. My handicap has improved from around 24 down to 13 and has stabilized recently around 16. However, when I video my swings or use things like foot powder on my club face to determine strike pattern I don't always know what to do with that information. Will getting real information on my club data help me if I don't know what to do to make an improvement? Also, is it true that I am limited to using software such as TGC (lifetime license holder) if I go to GCQuad or GCHawk (doesn't have HMT yet)?

Something else to consider: I have a Swingbyte device and have yet to properly incorporate the data into making improvements. For example the Swingbyte will indicate I have an in-to-out swing, but everyone tells me I have an OTT swing...?

Please advise me or dissuade me! Thanks in advance.

[bubs3141]

My opinion is more data will not help you if you don’t know what to do with it. HMT is nice but unless you use FSX it will not be used in simulation. TGC does not use HMT data. Just uses your ball data. You need to be an instructor to know what to do with the data that hmt produces.

[gibbiesmalls]

I went from a 13 to a 3 (in real life!) within 6 months of me getting my GC2/HMT, and I credit the improvement to the data my HMT was providing me. The ability to tangibly measure the physics of my swing was incredible. What I thought for years was an out to in swing (push fades were my miss), turned out to be an extremely in to out swing with poor face control. Without HMT providing me those numbers I would have never been able to fix. I then started googling/youtube'ing how to fix extreme in to out swing and getting more control of my club face at impact. Slowly but surely, more and more of my swings were much more neutral, and it gave me much more control of the club face. Without HMT providing me that data, session to session, swing to swing, I wouldn't have been able to match a swing thought or "feeling" to actual tangible/measured data.

I've always used my LM more for game improvement rather than sim play, and I now have a GCQuad that is an incredible tool at allowing me to do just that.


Keeping me from scratch now is my 20 yard and in game....

[catshannon]

This 100000%!!! I was a 7 that always struggled with a big slice with the driver and I always thought it was because of over the top, but no, it was extreme in-to-out with an open clubface relative to the path. GCQuad helped me understand this and made me go get a series of lessons to improve this. I have just dipped below 5 now.

[grant2145]

Another option if you have no complaints with the SkyTrak is picking up a Flightscope X2 or Xi tour that has club data for less than an HMT unit would cost. You only need 8 feet behind you to capture the club data and have it displayed on an iPad with the $10 Vx app. In my opinion, Flightscope struggles indoors in short mode picking up spin axis and I don't like the metal stickers eating away at my impact screen so I don't pay attention to the flight when using indoors. You can also take it outdoors to the range where SkyTrak struggles.

[FaultyClubs]

Based on your post I'd try to dissuade you. More data doesn't help unless one knows what to do with it. Since you've video your swing and don't know what to do and can't even tell if you are over the top then I'd say your swing knowledge is very basic and you'd be much better off with an instructor. Use your simulator to practice whatever he is telling you.

Maybe over time your swing knowledge and skill will improve to the point an HMT is worth it. It will be obvious then. If one has to ask if an HMT is useful that generally means it won't be.

Also you mention handicap. Is your goal to shoot lower scores or improve your swing? Because you can shoot lower scores without changing your swing. Aim for a different spot on the green etc. Course management and strategy stuff.

But if you're a hobbyist with excess $ who loves to tinker then a HMT is great fun. Since you'll be going in circles the pursuit of improvement will last a lifetime. Lol

[StuartG]

Here is another vote NOT to worry about club data for now. Very few actually need those numbers to improve and many will easily mis-use them. The data may indicate symptoms or problems at best but they will NOT give you any idea of what the root cause may be for those problems nor will they help you find the best way to address or correct the problems.

If you want to use your indoor set-up to improve - first step is to find a good instructor so there are clear goals and priorities on what to work on - and 2nd is to get a good video recording set-up. That's going to be the best feedback you can get to monitor your progress and improvements.


Now equipment fitting is where the club data can really be useful - but that's another big can of worms so will leave it for a different discussion.

[aja]

Strike pattern on the club face is no mystery. You generally want to hit it on the sweet spot, or as close as possible... Stickers or foot powder are a very low cost solution.

While not a fan of the SkyTrak myself, it's certainly a very big jump in coin to be looking at GC2/HMT.

I have ProTee and it emphasizes club information. I have gone from erratic outside in path and the resultant wild slicing to a very consistent inside out path and a nice draw. That's based on info about the club. That's what high handicappers need. Ball spin info isn't as helpful until you get your club path under control, but then you'd already be a low handicap player.

[legendsfan]

I'm a GCQuad owner and for me the club data has been vital but I also take lessons once a month. I started with an extreme outside/in swing and have gradually moved to inside/out but but I tend to go back to old habits if I don't hit at least once a week (I don't play often). Since I know what my numbers should be and what I need to do to correct it the data has been great for me. So my recommendation is get lessons with an instructor that has a launch monitor. Then you will start understanding how to read your data. To be honest I'm a mid handicap and don't have plans to get much better as I don't invest much time but having the club data allows me to tune my swing without having to go back to an instructor every time to get help.

[Wizard of Coz]

For me my trip to 0.4 hdcp last year was from.
Skytrak (range) 2k
Skypro. $125

Skypro was the answer for my swing changes I can figure out how to hit it square but I couldn't work on my swing without it.
Swing tempo should be close to 3/1 ratio
Before over 4/1
After. Around 3.25/1

Takeaway half back
Before I would get inside
After 3-8 degrees outside is where I keep it

Swing length
Before 5-15 degrees past parallel
After 5-10 short of parallel

Shaft at the top
Before inside 10-20 or crossing at the top
After. Outside 5-15 degrees laid off

So now I'll hook up the skypro every once in awhile and check that im not getting into bad habits and make sure I groove it again if I have swayed from my changes.

It took many an hour of frustration to make those changes but I couldn't have done it without my skypro. Instant feedback and im not sure hmt would have helped me with any of those changes???

[aja]

Interesting Numbers. What do they mean?

Being facetious but don't know why you are quoting your swing numbers. I see that mess of info and I'd sure as heck avoid even trying to know anything about them.

[JackedUpSwing]

He's quoting his numbers to show the parameters that he used to work on his game and get from a (not sure the start point) to a 0.4 hcp.

For example, before he had a really slow tempo 4/1, he quickened his temp(probably from taking a shorter swing) to 3.25/1(3/1 is tour average)

Not sure what about this post is confusing lol

[Wizard of Coz]

Ive played golf for over 40 years and my lowest hdcp ever was 2.3 and lowest round was 2 under 70. After using skypro and the skytrak range my hdcp hit 0.4 and my lowest score 6 under 66. The numbers represent changes I was able to make with the skypro that allowed me to improve. It was like having teacher there after every shot instant feedback. Simple number for you past parallel try to shorten your swing. It's not so simple. You feel like your shortening it but you aren't as confirmed by the device. Its not easy to make swing changes but this allowed me to do it efficiently with results.

[cmckelvmi]

This is great feedback, I really appreciate you guys sharing your thoughts!

[catshannon]

Thanks, StanMI for the quick reply. Very helpful. I hope your swing is improving now that you have the video feedback.

[StanMI]

Jury is still out for me.
I got my GC2 almost 2 years ago. Got my HMT and FSX late last Fall. HMT is a wealth of information! Add that to FSX and a couple of swing cameras and I'm hoping for great improvement in handicap numbers this year.

No matter what you do, your biggest investment will be your time. If your truly committed to game improvement it takes time. There are no "quick" fixes.

For me, if I could have a GC2 with HMT and just the swing cameras that's everything I'd need. The rest of it is just for fun in the Winter. I live in Michigan so Winter seems like forever!

[cmckelvmi]

Thank you, Stan!

[catshannon]

Hey StanMI, I am also looking for a camera setup. I don't have a lot of space behind me. About 5-6 feet. Is that enough for this camera to capture good down the line video?

Also, do you have FSX or FSX 2018? I still have FSX.

Thanks

[StanMI]

I do have FSX2018.

My "face on" camera is about 5 feet away. Works well with the lower resolutions that give the higher frame rates.

Please be advised, your getting a $40 high speed camera. It's not great, but very workable.

I was amazed at what I saw the first few times I used it. I was taking the club back so far John Daly would have been proud of me !! And my inconsistent contact and poor ball flight mirrored my bad swing.

[mmcfadin]

Save money on electronics and go get lessons from a Pro. I played golf my whole life without lessons until last year. Having a Pro tell me what I was doing wrong and teaching me practice drills to improve was the best thing I ever did for my game.

[Gresh12]

I don’t have access to “real” club data at home but I do have a Swingbyte 2 so thought I’d jump in quickly.

Unless you’ve checked your Swingbyte against a good source (Trackman, HMT, etc) I wouldn’t rely on it at all. Maybe I got a defective one and didnt figure it out until way too late to do anything about it but mine is awful. I can take a huge out to in swing and mine still registers way in to out. I’ve retired my Swingbyte and bought an R-motion which I suspect is still off but it seems to be plausible with its output.

Someone mentioned using Skytrak for ball data and getting a lower cost radar for the club data which I hadn’t considered (I’m holding out hope that with technology improvements a ~$4k machine with decent club/ball data will exist by the time I retire my Skytrak). What is the lowest cost alternative to get credible club data for speed, path, face angle and AoA (can live without AoA)? I have space behind for radar on club but not enough ball flight for radar ball data.

[aja]

Don't think there is such an animal (device). Cheap radar won't give you club data.

[cmckelvmi]

I'm glad you mentioned your experience with the Swingbyte! I just used it last night to warm up before playing my first round of the Heritage. The Swingbyte was consistently different from what I was seeing on the SkyTrak. Swingbyte would indicate a slice or a fade and I would see a draw or hook on the SkyTrak.

[rmyoung88]

I'll jump in here. I've had both (currently have a GC2)

I would only switch if you are planning on getting lessons from someone who also utilizes that technology. If your instructor has a GC2 or GCquad, then I say go for it. Its helped me a ton, it really showed me how important face to path and face to target is on the overall flight of the ball (not just club path).

Since you already have a skytrak you know your numbers relatively well. I will say, the skytrak app is much better than the stock GC2 app and that is all I'm really missing.

I can't say the GC2 has been a godsend in comparison, but GC2 + HMT is much better than the skytrak... $8k better is up to you

[Wizard of Coz]

Can someone chime in here. I think im missing the big picture on this hmt gig. I now have a gc2 but please tell me how hmt will help me with my swing tempo and length of swing and position half back plus club position at the top. I reworked my swing with these changes to eliminate a2 way miss. Straight or right trying to take the left side of the course out of play.
What do I need the hmt for. Sell me on this and maybe I'll get one someday but at this point i'm not following. When I hit the ball I can tell you what part of the face I hit it on without hmt or foot spray.

[cmckelvmi]

I am really glad you were able to use the SkyTrak and GC2 to help your game! I think it's evident on the tournament results your skill level far exceeds mine. Even though I can sometimes tell you a shot felt like it came off of the toe or heel, it doesn't register with me what I need to do fix it. Did I sway my hips, cast too soon, finish too much on my toes, or any of my other swing faults? That's what I am trying to figure out regarding if HMT would help me.

[JackedUpSwing]

cmckelvmi that Avatar is so ugly man

[Wizard of Coz]

I feel that my biggest improvements came from shortening my swing and getting the club in a different position at the top. Oh the swing tempo 3/1 is huuuuuuge I even have a book on that one. Right now ill need to spend $ on a chiropractor instead of an hmt. I have a friend with one so I guess I could borrow his and check it out first.