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Ernest sports es20/20 video

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  • Ernest sports es20/20 video

    In the par2pro videos didn’t see even one shot hit with the unit, outdoors or inside that is strange don’t you think. Just will have to wait and see how this unit works time will tell.

  • #2
    They said it isn’t ready yet, so not surprised. I think it’s smart that did put it out there when it’s not ready and they hopefully learned from the ES16 launch not to do that. Hope this one works out and if so, I hope they offer a a no-brainer for an upgrade for Es16 users.

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    • #3
      I hope your right, don’t own a es16 came close though. I even talked to a salesman just couldn’t pull the trigger, got the skytrak. I would to have the se20/20 if it works and has correct data. Baller hope you get a discount for your es16.

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      • #4
        Well they say it will be March before they have anything to release, but it was pretty much the sames sales pitch they used for the ES-16 when they launched it. Also said that the ES-16 would be for indoors use only now so looks like they gave up on a lot of what the ES-16 was suppose to do. I really do hope they do something for those who purchased the ES-16 thinking it was going to do all they said it would, but really don't think that will happen, only hope they prove me wrong.

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        • #5
          For the same price you can get a refurb GC2 and HMT from foresight. Pretty easy decision to me based on this companies past product.

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          • Baller
            Baller commented
            Editing a comment
            Very true. That is high and only with range software.

        • #6
          I have to agree the launch of the ES 16 hurt them more than it helped to say the least. Still, my ES 16 does not work bad at all for me. Others like my brother in law, not so much. I hope they realize they need a clean release of the ES 20/20.

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          • #7
            I highly doubt that will happen. Have they ever had a clean release on any of their products ? Quite a shame what they claimed the 16 would do and what it ended up being

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            • #8
              This could be one of the new contenders. Seems to be everything the GC Quad is but at 1/2 the cost. They said it’s been built completely from the ground up and had no comparison to the ES 16. Seems like acknowledging a flawed product to promote a new one would be a bold business move but I’m eager to see early consumer reviews in a month from now. I was pondering the Flightscope Xi tour or X2 Elite until I heard the ES 20/20 was going to be $9000. That’s slightly cheaper than flightscopes product that launched in 2014 (Xi tour). Although from my research flightscope has a solid track record which says a lot. I’m still torn...

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              • BGCurtis2nd
                BGCurtis2nd commented
                Editing a comment
                Go look through the old advertisements for the ES-16, it was suppose to be everything the GCQ is or better, the best and most accurate launch monitor on the market that was what was promised, that is the reason I got one. Saving money is not much of a save if the product you buy will not do what it claims to be able to do. I got talked out of buying a GC2 and into buying an ES-16, I save about $500.00 to $600.00 over all but put up with a product that made a P3ProSwing look good, and then wound up with absolutely nothing at all in the end, unless you count the TGC software which I have nothing that I can use it on.
                Last edited by BGCurtis2nd; 02-04-2018, 02:39 AM.

            • #9
              I would love to demo the product and have some comparisons. I don't know if they'll ever demo a product.

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              • #10
                They are trying to separate the ES 20/20 from the ES-16 and make such a deal about it being a different unit and not using the same components, but it just uses a higher quality cameras from what they claim, not sure if there is any real difference in the Doppler radar units or not, and a faster CPU with an upgraded version of the same app the ES-16 used. I am betting that they will want quit a penny for an upgrade from an ES-16 to the ES 20/20, even though they used all the input from the people who had the ES-16 units to build the ES 20/20 from what I was told. Still if you look at what they claimed the ES-16 was and compare it to what the ES 20/20 is I myself don't see anything that makes the ES 20/20 anymore than what the ES-16 was suppose to be.

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                • #11
                  Originally posted by BGCurtis2nd View Post
                  They are trying to separate the ES 20/20 from the ES-16 and make such a deal about it being a different unit and not using the same components, but it just uses a higher quality cameras from what they claim, not sure if there is any real difference in the Doppler radar units or not, and a faster CPU with an upgraded version of the same app the ES-16 used. I am betting that they will want quit a penny for an upgrade from an ES-16 to the ES 20/20, even though they used all the input from the people who had the ES-16 units to build the ES 20/20 from what I was told. Still if you look at what they claimed the ES-16 was and compare it to what the ES 20/20 is I myself don't see anything that makes the ES 20/20 anymore than what the ES-16 was suppose to be.
                  I would be surprised if anyone who has read this forum would be interested in the ES 2020. I visit this section from time to time just to watch the train-wreck unfold.

                  I feel bad for how they treated you, and would never purchase anything from them after reading your saga. I hope you filed a complaint with BBB. I just searched for Ernest Sports on the BBB site and there are 0 results. If you file a complaint, they would have 100% negative rating. It wont get your money back, but may offer a warning to others to stay away.



                  Comment


                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I filed a complaint with the Georgia Department of Consumer Protection, the BBB is just a billboard with no teeth and when I tried to file with them, I started getting a runaround on what all I needed to do so I hung up. The BBB can only post a report and can do nothing else as to where the Georgia Department of Consumer Protection can do something and will, they have informed me that they are going over the evidence I submitted and are contacting Ernest Sports and will see what line of action they need to take. I told them they could look at the post on this form and clearly see I am not the only one having problems. I also sent in advertisement claims and email promises sent to me, so we will see what comes of that. If that does not produce satisfactory results then I will have my lawyer file a case in court.

                • #12
                  This is simple... they don’t deserve the trust off us the “customer “. That is earned , and they clearly have fallen far short of their product promises and references .

                  Give your money to companies that have established a pattern of trustworthy performance , and run from those that don’t......otherwise, guess who’s is at fault ... you the consumer

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                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Shardak View Post

                    I would be surprised if anyone who has read this forum would be interested in the ES 2020. I visit this section from time to time just to watch the train-wreck unfold.

                    I feel bad for how they treated you, and would never purchase anything from them after reading your saga.
                    Agree that anyone who does a modicum of research is not going to set foot near the 20/20.

                    I was an early adopter of ES-16.

                    Although they made good for me on the 30-day return policy (even sent me a shipping label), the product that I received was a full-on train wreck. I would say I was an unpaid beta tester, but that would be too kind.

                    The unit I received would not work if any natural light was present (forget about outdoors). Also no-go with any type of LED room lighting present. Instead of hitting balls, I spent my 30 days with ES-16 carrying different lamps into the room, hanging blankets over windows etc. It felt a lot more like a prototype than a beta or even an alpha. I got ZERO enjoyment out of it--the entire month was spent troubleshooting, trying to get any reads at all (forget about accurate ones).

                    BG Curtis, if this does end up going to court, I would press for specifics regarding the internal TESTING process employed with regard to prototype(s) and the final design. Was only one single location (e.g. lighting condition) used? Only one ball? What driving ranges was it taken to, what teaching pros were given units to evaluate? Because it sure didn't seem to come close to satisfying the implied warranty of merchantability.

                    All I can say is that while the reviews I posted publicly here were not flattering, I chose to withhold some of the most negative stuff, as did other early adopters I corresponded with here. We shared the stuff with ES and each other, but not publicly, as we did not wish to embarrass them (some of the videos were incredibly damning). All of us wanted them to succeed, as when there is competition, the consumer always wins.

                    I concluded soon thereafter that ES will never be a viable player in the space occupied by Foresight, Trackman, Flightscope and even SkyGolf. From releasing a badly flawed product to consumers to mistreating BGCurtis to spelling/grammar errors in the announcement of the latest release, it's clear that these guys are the JV team. Stay away.

                    I hope you filed a complaint with BBB. I just searched for Ernest Sports on the BBB site and there are 0 results. If you file a complaint, they would have 100% negative rating. It wont get your money back, but may offer a warning to others to stay away.
                    Not. So. Fast.

                    http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/...f-a-bad-grade/
                    http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news...ons/index.html


                    BBB is pay-to-play. If ES has no results, it is because they are not a paid member (I wouldn't be either). If you pay up to join, your A+ rating comes along with it. Not a member and a complaint comes in? You can better believe that their inquiry to you includes the hand out for a few hundred bucks in membership fees.

                    I'd be interested in statistics regarding adjudication by the BBB of claims against dues paying members vs. those that refuse to join. Seems like a huge conflict of interest in adjudicating a case where one side is your source of funding.

                    Learned this years ago when a friend had an inground pool put in and the job was beyond botched. Contractor was an existing dues paying member--the arbitrator decided even the most egregious things in the member's favor.

                    Your state AG's consumer protection outfit is the way to go. They have even blazed the BBB.

                    http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news...eau/index.html





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                    • #14
                      I was an early adopter of the ES16 also. Unfortunately, I was always assured by the folks at Ernest that the problems were being fixed. I am currently in the process of returning the device for a refund. I will not provide any details, as to avoid appearing be knocking the company about individual matters, so here is my review of the machine:

                      Outdoors: Here's what happens, you put a ball down, the machine hears a strike and, as best as I can tell, measures the club head speed. The rest is completely made up. The machine presents ball speed, launch angle, spin rate, and distances that have little basis in reality. You can tell it you're hitting an 8-iron, then hit a low line drive, and it will report a 20 degree launch angle. Tell it you're hitting a driver, but tee up an 8 iron and hit up on it, it will report 13 degrees of launch.... It completely relies on you telling it what club you're hitting. Technically, this should have no bearing on the measurements, except maybe for higher spin rate on high lofted wedges (which can be 3x the rate of a long iron). In outdoor mode, it does not measure side spin, direction or calculate any face data. I had confirmed with Ernest that the launch angles and ball direction were not working properly, while they acknowledged it, they really didn't say when or even if they would fix it.

                      Indoors: Anyone that has an ES16 can do this test: Set up a ball to get the green light. Take a practice swing with any club, next to the ball, making enough of a downward strike so the club makes a sound at the bottom of your arc. The machine will magically register a shot, even though the ball has not moved one iota. It will report launch angle and spin stats that would fit nicely into the range of whatever club you told it you were hitting. I suppose if you play TGC competitively, you can assure EVERY shot to be perfectly straight. Some would consider this cheating, so would I. Want to see it with your own eyes? (Youtube: Ernest ES16 Makes Up Data)

                      Besides outright faking data points from a practice swing, and to give credit where credit is due: the unit seems to pick up club head speed within reason (registered a few mph higher than a Swingbyte reading). I'll give it that much. It also picks up launch angle OK most of the time (when a ball actually launches, and Indoor mode only). Besides those two things, everything else seems to be a crap shoot. The unit relies on having that ball placed logo side toward the machine perfectly horizontal. Even then, spin readings can vary wildly. I assume that if it can't determine what the real spin rate is, it generates a guess. I ran many tests: One of the tests, I told the machine I was swinging Driver, 6-iron and 9-iron, but for each shot I used the same ball and the same 6-iron, and did my best to repeat the same swing. The results were very telling. The smash factor for the 'driver' was high (1.42), the 6-iron was in a decent range (1.34) and the 9-iron was low (1.25). The swing speed averages were all 80mph +/- 1mph, but average ball speeds varied by 10% or more. It became obvious to me that the machine wasn't measuring ball speed at all, but calculating it from what it 'was told'. Spin rates followed a similar pattern, the most telling was between Driver and 6-iron, over a 2500 rpm difference!

                      Now some may correctly assume that I am no Iron Byron, which is true. I'm a 5 handicap, and did my best to keep my swings even and consistent (I did, after all, want to be 100% confident in my results). I also took a good number of swings and looked at the averages. I was able to test on a GC2 before and after. The ball speeds on the GC2 came within .4 mph from before to after my tests with the ES16 were done....I had to be certain I wasn't getting a more/less efficient swing as I went.

                      During my time using the ES16, I'd get all sorts of results from club face and club path data points, some were completely nonsensical (ie: 30 degree club path), and others appear within reason. I had issues with ball direction and side spin from the beginning, the unit would typically show the ball going anywhere from 2 to 7 degree more right than reality, and would vary wildly with each firmware update (even after re-calibration). The unit still has a problem with a closed clubface / draw swing....(which is why Foresight uses stickers for their HMT technology). As far as I can tell, the engineers haven't even scratched the surface with how to deal with this problem. Recalibrating is a bit of a pain. They send a printed poster that you must tape down and place the unit on a printed outline, then go through a process where the unit takes images of the golf ball, sitting on a specific tee, in two different positions. Once set up, the process takes about 5 minutes to complete.

                      I really wanted this machine to work and be everything they advertised it to be, but it kept coming up short month after month, update after update. It seems that the further they developed it, the more smoke and mirrors were used via software to hide its deficiencies. Notice that Ernest does not present any accuracy tolerances like other product manufacturers do? It appears that the engineers have tried hard to make this product work, but I can only speculate that the components used are not up to high enough speed or resolution to obtain accurate, or in some cases, any, results. As a professional tool, I would rate the ES16's accuracy about the same as a broken watch, which is correct at least twice a day. As a simulator controller, it would be a cheaters dream, but if used honorably, and provided that the user correctly tells the machine what club they are using, it's refined enough that it could fool most of people most of the time.
                       

                      Comment


                      • 72solstice
                        72solstice commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Omg...this story. This company. I bought one of the most popular scales on Amazon to measure bio impedance and get body fat and water content ect.. with weight of course. The same sinking feeling sunk in for me. In that it could measure weight accurately, and I told it my height, then knowing it was "you", if your weight changed, it was gaming the metrics retroactively to fake the other numbers. Like the algorithms were just massaging the body fat and water content, bone density to match a "plausible" scenario that shifted with the day's weight change. The technology itself, were the algorithms dedicated to faking you out with plausibility, not actually god damn measuring accurately what they said it was. I mean that's fraud, people... just fraud.

                    • #15
                      That’s both really funny and really sad. Talk about wag the dog.

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