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Es 2020

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  • #46
    He says he is not an employee and I continue to be skeptical. He also says he has a working unit that he is happy with. If it were me I would post a review and then come on here and direct people to that review and then say I told you so. I just feel that if you are going to defend something back it up especially given the amount of current negativity.

    Comment


    • #47
      Have you guys not ground your axes enough!
      You seem to forget, the ES 16 I have is not the best, but I do not have all the issues you guys had and I still use it.

      For me, I am going to wait unit data and reviews come out on the ES 20/20, then I will make the call.

      Comment


      • Stonebattle
        Stonebattle commented
        Editing a comment
        I get some of those miss reads as well and end up having to reset the system. Still, most are good ones. So here we are, in this thread we just want to have a reasonable discussion on the ES 20/20 without the constant flaming of ES that goes on.

      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest commented
        Editing a comment
        I am kind of confused by this sentiment. The issue here is the treatment of customers who supported an idea of the ES16 with a real financial investment. The ES20/20 doesn't really claim to do any more than the ES16 claimed. So if this is the case why did ES stop development of the ES16 and move onto ES20/20, in effect abandoning all of the ES16 customers? I can only speak from personal experience. I paid $5100 for the ES16 and prior to my purchase I conversed by email and in a call as to what my requirements and my concerns were having read this forum, I was very clear that I was not interested in golf simulation, I was only interested in accurate ball and club data. Given the knowledge that ES had at that time they could have advised me to wait as they were in the early stages of developing a new and better product. They did not, they instead sold me on the ES16 already knowing its limitations. When I first used the ES16, I immediately contacted ES and went through a relatively lengthy process of discussing the issues I was facing. I was asked to provide all sorts of evidence, photos etc to explain the issues I was having. Eventually, I sent the unit back and it was 'repaired' and returned to me. Again on first use the data was unreliable, and Clay took me through some more detailed calibration procedures which initially appeared to work, but the unit reliability would degrade over a very short period of time. I stopped using the ES16 at this point and considered it bad luck on my part to have ever fallen for the sales spiel. Then on this forum, I read that Joe Ernest was willing to hear directly from customers with ES16 issues, so I emailed my concerns in a genuine act of finding some kind of reasonable reconciliation, even though I had never expected this 'opportunity'. Unfortunately, Joe never contacted me, rather Jim answered on his behalf asking if I was interested in a confidential offer, which clearly I was. The offer turned out to be a sales pitch for the ES20/20 for a 'bargain' $3000 upgrade price. So now my poorly invested $5100 could be increased to $8100 for an as yet non-existent product. I said I was not interested and asked for my initial purchase to be refunded. I never received a reply to this and further emails to Joe Ernest went unanswered. So yes we can have a reasonable discussion about the as yet mythical ES20/20, but that discussion should be had with consideration as to what you can expect if you buy the product and it turns out not to work as you expected and how ES will likely support you.

        Would I like to see a cheaper competitor to Foresight, of course, but this should not be built on the foundations of product misrepresentation and the exploitation and abandonment of a hopeful and believing customer base. I have real difficulty coming to any other conclusion, considering my personal, costly experience with ES.

        Apologies for the lengthy response, I had not really intended to go into so much detail, but it began to seem appropriate.
        Last edited by Markhelsby; 12-04-2018, 10:13 PM.

      • Stonebattle
        Stonebattle commented
        Editing a comment
        I can recount something similar, still you are making my point, so I got nothing to add.

    • #48
      Originally posted by Stonebattle View Post
      Have you guys not ground your axes enough!
      You seem to forget, the ES 16 I have is not the best, but I do not have all the issues you guys had and I still use it.

      For me, I am going to wait unit data and reviews come out on the ES 20/20, then I will make the call.
      If you are happy with a product then you have every right to use it and tell people how well you like it, but yet you state it is not the best but you are going to wait unit data and reviews come out on the ES 20/20, then you will make the call.
      Now as far as me "having an axe to grind" you make it sound as if I am only saying bad things because I have a vendetta against ES for some frivolous reason. I took out a loan to by the ES-16 which had all the claims the ES 20/20 now has, I called ES the day after I received my ES-16 asking for my money back because the unit did not work any where near as claimed. I was asked to work with them and if they could not satisfy me they would give me a full refund. I worked with them for over a year and a half trying to resolve issues with the ES-16 with no compensation, I was made promises that were never fulfilled and was from what I could see used as a pawn by ES being told that they would take care of the ES-16 owners if I would just help ES and have them call and talk to Joe, which a lot of them did only to be ignored or given a run around with nothing really being done.
      I myself along with many others would like to see some real data on the ES 20/20 and what it will really do, but we have not been the ones holding it back and can only believe that the reason for it not being posted is because it does not amount to what has been claimed it will do. Now do you think it is right to set back and let someone purchase a ES 20/20 with no knowledge of the past and just hope they get a better deal than you did? I wish someone would have posted the problems with the ES-16 before I made my purchase, but the only post I saw back then were saying that any problems at the time would be fixed and it was a revolutionary new product and well worth the buy.

      Comment


      • #49
        BG:
        I decided not to even read your post. You need to let go of your hate, it's going to eat you up.

        Comment


        • #50
          Stonebattle I don't have any hate for anyone, and like I have said I would love to see ES make a good showing, but turning a blind eye to them or pretending they are doing it right this time will not make it any better. Like I said reporting the truth is not what is costing them sales, all they have to do is show they have a viable product that can really do what they say it will do. Should be lots of videos showing it off by now but they don't even have a listing for the ES 20/20 on their Product Comparison page and this is for a unit that was suppose to be released January of 2018 and here it is December and they still haven't show what it will do, don't see how you can think that is my fault. I got myself a GC2 it worked right out of the box and works outside and inside. I haven't gotten to use it much but that is not anyone's fault but mine, and it has worked every time I have used it and only have had it miss one shot so far (which was a very bad shot super fat), and every reading I have gotten seems to be correct. Joe seems to be a very nice guy and under different circumstance I think we could have been friends, but I think the way the ES-16 was handle was a disaster, and it left a lot of people out of time and money and holding onto a piece of junk that would not do what it was suppose to do when they bought it. You don't have to read my post doesn't bother me one way or the other as to if you do or don't, I don't really care who reads them or not, but I do feel better about myself knowing I put the truth out there for people to see and it is up to them whether to pay attention to it or not.

          Comment


          • #51
            Stonebattle Just to show you I am not mad at ES, here is a site that helps fund prototypes, https://www.indiegogo.com/choose-your-platform
            I donated money to OnCore Golf, they are trying to build a golf ball that can be tracked by your phone and also will send all the data about the golf ball flight back to it. Now I know Jim looks at this forum and Joe has quoted my post back to me so he knows what goes on here, so here it is for them to see and try. I wish them the best of luck, people from this site are willing to fund something that is not proven. I myself put up funds for the Genies ball knowing it would be a hard build, they are still working on it and have not met their deadline for release, but I bought into it knowing that it was a project to be built, not sold as something that was working so I have no complaints that it has not yet been completed or behind schedule. Like I have said before I would love to see them succeed, I just don't want to see them selling a product that doesn't preform as claim to someone who thinks they are buying a proven product, simple as that.

            Comment


            • #52
              BG:
              Hmmm, I stand corrected

              Comment


              • #53
                Hey guys truce. How about this, if I start another thread, say ES 20/20 reviews, accuracy and technical problems, could you leave the ES flaming out of it?

                Comment


                • #54
                  Originally posted by Stonebattle
                  Hey guys truce. How about this, if I start another thread, say ES 20/20 reviews, accuracy and technical problems, could you leave the ES flaming out of it?
                  Real question would be, would anyone post a real video review? I don’t have anything in this race, but I though this was out for a while now and there still really isn’t any good reviews. I’d like to see it loaned to someone with a Flightscope, Trackman or GCQ and show comparison data. Otherwise I think a large majority will be extremely skeptical and negative towards it because there is no real reason to think anything different.

                  Comment


                  • #55
                    Stonebattle Do you want to put up a post with a true review of the ES 20/20 and what it will really do, with real accuracy and true capability assessments and what all your setup entails to get it to do so, or are you wanting to promote the ES 20/20 without anyone making any comments to counter what you say? As far as flaming ES, what is giving factual statements about what they have done flaming them. You have a lot of people on here that spent hard earned money and put in a lot of time working on trying to fix a unit that was suppose to do just what the ES 20/20 now claims to be able to do. But they were left with a product that does not preform as was claimed or able to fulfill the function they got it for and are out time and money and ES seems to have just walked away from them. Now do you want to ask them to please hold their tong so some good points can be made for ES? Seems to me if ES had taken care of it's customers there wouldn't be anything being said, I know if I felt I had been treated fairly I would have no reason to put any post. When Joe asked me to have everyone having problems with the ES-16 to contact him and he would take care of them I stepped in doing what he ask, now I feel somewhat responsible for what happened even though I had to control over what was done. I ask in good faith for them to call Joe believing he would do what he said, so why should I be quit and let someone else be taken in believing they are being sold a good viable product with good company backing?

                    Comment


                  • #56
                    Originally posted by Stonebattle View Post
                    Hey guys truce. How about this, if I start another thread, say ES 20/20 reviews, accuracy and technical problems, could you leave the ES flaming out of it?
                    It's a good question. I guess at some time in the future the treatment I have received and the money I have lost will fade in my memory, or I will just get bored of the whole affair. I assume this is what ES are hoping for, sideline the product for a new one and hope that the voices of discontent eventually quieten down or at least are drowned out, allowing ES to move on and put all of this dreadful mess behind them. Maybe then, should this approach succeed, they will even use their future profits to compensate people such as me, or maybe................

                    Go for it. You have nothing to lose, as I was once advised.



                    Comment


                    • #57
                      I would say the answer is no. Oh well, ES has generated some very hard feelings and I have more than my share of them.

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                      • #58
                        Looking for a fitter right. One of the guys claimed to use state of the art LM. Ask which one thinking Trackman 4 or GC Quad. I mean at the very least GC2 w/ HMT.
                        He says ES 14.
                        Im like WTF. No thanks man!

                        Comment


                        • wbond
                          wbond commented
                          Editing a comment
                          People have varying levels of what state of the art means!

                      • #59
                        All it takes is a positive post about the product and the same 6 individuals emerge, flames in tow.

                        A video comparison sounds like a great idea though. A golf pro buddy of mine has a flight scope. Mark my words though, the Bitter 6 will highjack that thread as well if the results are remotely favorable.

                        I am not an employee of Ernest Sports, but I do have a vested interest in seeing them succeed. I purchased the ES14. It worked well for a very basic launch monitor. I purchased an ES16 and it worked OK for me. Not great, but OK. (Obviously, my experience was better than some here.) I traded in my 16 for a 20/20 and it has been a good decision.

                        Since I have put my money down and invested in these products, should I encourage and endorse the words of these same (bitter) 6 dudes? Seems like jumping on the wagon with these guys and encouraging the negativity against Ernest Sports would be detrimental to my own position!

                        Clearly the ES16 did not work for you guys. That being said, your experience doesn’t represent everyone on here. Every time you jump in and tell your same story to anyone who will read your post, it blocks the overall purpose of this forum: constructive feedback on launch monitor simulation. I repeat what I have said a few times, it is in all of our best interests for Ernest Sports to succeed in selling reasonably priced, accurate launch monitor options for simulation. If you don’t agree with that, I have no clue what you are doing here...

                        Comment


                        • #60
                          But why not do a review then? Prove all of these six guys wrong as you seem very determined to call them out at every opportunity. I would think that you would be going to great lengths to show them how wrong that they are. It also sounds like you have had your unit for some time now, yet you have not provided any solid comments on its performance. In fact, I think this is the first time that you have mentioned owning ES16 and the one before that. Rather than calling guys trolls and taunting them further why not just out the story to bed and take the time to review your launch monitor head to head comparison. You have noted you have a buddy with a FS thaybyou could use? It just all seems very made up on your part as if you have always had a buddy with a FS, would one of the first things you would do is not take your 20/20 over and test it and then tell people here the results of what you found? It does not have to be anything substantial, just a summary of what you are seeing. If you get called out, then decide if it is worth your time to invest the time to do a head to head to prove your point.

                          Please know for me, I am really looking forward to seeing the results of your comparison, as it has been a long time coming.

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