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ES tour plus - been a long frustrating journey of dissatisfaction

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  • ES tour plus - been a long frustrating journey of dissatisfaction

    First off, I want to say that I know admin doesn't appreciate it when we, as golfsimforum users, dump on the companies that make these products. I get that. I'm simply here to give my feedback regarding my overall experience with this product. And you can't really separate the company from the product. The product is what makes then company what it is. If you make an awesome product, say like the GC2, the company's reputation becomes tied to that product. Also, the practices and behaviors of the those who work for and are C.E.O. of the company are equally relevant to the the companies product and in turn the user experience of people like me. People who wanted nothing more than to receive the value for which they paid their hard earned dough. So when I speak about my experience with the Ernest Sports ES Tour Plus, Ernest Sports played a large part in shaping that experience.

    Anyways, after a couple months of trying to get my unit working correctly, I finally sent it back to earnest sports. I was not thrilled about having to go through the same process all over again with a replacement unit, but I was willing to. They would go nearly a week at times without replying to emails asking where my replacement unit was. Finally, I'd had enough. I said just refund it. And despite some less than polite back n forth, Travis Hancuff, CEO agreed to a refund. I was relieved. For a day or two at least. Over the next few weeks, he would seemingly agree to a specific resolution at least 3 or 4 times. Inevitably to find out he would just go back on his word a couple days later.

    So, the following notes I took about a week ago as I was trying to get my head around the whole situation:
    Ernest sports has been dragging this process on and on. I was first told that I would have to wait until the 2nd or 3rd week of the month to receive my refund. I was going to have to wait a few weeks and that was quite inconvenient but at least I would get my money back. Then I was told almost two weeks later that they were going to have to review the return policy die to what they claimed was improper use, which is nonsense. It was never used improperly and it never functioned correctly. At this point, needing a working launch monitor and not having the money to go out and purchase a new one, I told Travis Handcuff, CEO of Ernest Sports, that I would be willing to accept a working replacement unit. He told me it would be built that day and shipped out the next day. That was last Wednesday, 6 days ago. Almost every day I sent him an email asking for the tracking number of the replacement unit. Finally, yesterday, 5 days later, he sent me an email saying he had rebuilt the unit and it was being shipped out the next day. Today I get an email from Paula Musone, an Ernest Sports representative, who claims that there was damage to the unit and basically saying that they will return the “damaged” unit to me only when I drop the credit card claim that I placed on the transaction. First of all, They have now had my returned unit for almost 3 weeks. And I’m just now being told about this internal damage. This company is dishonest and they are selling an inferior product. At least, based on the performance of the unit that I received from them.

    Look, if I had 50k in the bank, I probably would have just sworn to never by another Ernest sports product again, taken it on the shoulder and thought of it as a lesson learned. ButI don't have that kind of money. When I spent $2700 on an es tour plus, I probably had about $3300 in my my account. At the time, I expected it to be an investment in my future that would allow me to teach from home, not knowing what the future held for the training center that I work at. Instead, what I got was a whole lot of added stress and financial uncertainty during an already very difficult and stressful time.

    No one is perfect, ES built a product (supposed to be 2nd gen btw) and it has failed in the eyes of a great many users of this forum. That much I can forgive. It is the lies, misdirection and sudden changes of course that I find to be up hauling. And the behavior of the company and it's minions have been most disappointing of all.

    I really hope admin doesn't sensor this. People come to this forum to decide if they should buy a product or not.they deserve to get the whole picture.




  • #2
    a copy of one of the more ubrupt changes of course from Travis. This is an email where he tells me that they rebuilt my unit and it was being shipped out asap
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Later that day he reversed course again. No replacement, no refund

      Comment


      • #4
        I wanted to buy one but after hearing so many horror stories as well as the unit not working outside, I'll pass on this company. I bought an es14 a few years back. I'll try to research the Flightscope Mevo+ to see if it will work for my outdoor needs.

        Comment


        • Jon
          Jon commented
          Editing a comment
          I actually had an es14 at one point as well and loved it. I thought it had strong software and solid features. That’s partially why I was so disappointed by the Es tour plus

      • #5
        Originally posted by Jon View Post
        " Today I get an email from Paula Musone, an Ernest Sports representative, who claims that there was damage to the unit and basically saying that they will return the “damaged” unit to me only when I drop the credit card claim that I placed on the transaction. First of all, They have now had my returned unit for almost 3 weeks. And I’m just now being told about this internal damage. This company is dishonest and they are selling an inferior product. At least, based on the performance of the unit that I received from them."

        Well yea???? When you file a credit card claim on the transaction the credit company holds a lien on the vendor - Ernest sports doesn't have the money for the unit.

        Now you are trying to get them to fix the unit and you filed a credit card claim?? This is very suspect...

        Comment


        • Jon
          Jon commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes. I filed a claim. They had gone back on their word several times. They had my returned unit for 3 weeks and hadn’t replied to any communications for several days. It was the only way I could protect myself from being sh*t out of luck $2700. And I haven’t received that refund. The dispute has is pending and the bank is holding on to the funds. I am out of pocket still.
          Btw, Mr. 7 posts to date. I think, when you say “them”, you really mean “us”. Let’s be real.

      • #6
        What... and they just sent me a brand new system... something is funky with this story.
        Courses Created:
        Cresent Hill KY (L)
        Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
        Seneca GC KY (L) 18
        Charlie Vettiner KY (L)

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by Chuck View Post
          What... and they just sent me a brand new system... something is funky with this story.
          The only thing funky has been ES launch monitors and false promises. They've screwed a lot of people over the years.

          Comment


          • #8
            Well, "over the years" is pretty broad. Over the years I've *screwed* over a lot of people too. Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes or superiority complexes taking over with your comments there. What I see is a company with a pretty good product just making a go of it, just like everyone else does. They have been courteous and polite to me and answered many many annoying questions. You seem to be painting everyone involved with a pretty broad brush. The tech involved in the Tour Plus is pretty good. It's why I picked ES Tour Plus over Skytrack. After some testing I feel, it was a very good choice. The product delivered is quality and the unit works well, from Driver to putter.
            Courses Created:
            Cresent Hill KY (L)
            Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
            Seneca GC KY (L) 18
            Charlie Vettiner KY (L)

            Comment


            • Chuck
              Chuck commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm mainly playing E6 with auto-caddy, so prior to my shot, the club is selected for the most part. But let me answer your question in detail. So "Do you have to select driver or putter? Well, if you are engaged in a simulation like E6, you want to model the games as best as you can with the sensor you've got. A little old Tittle will smoke many sims that don't follow that simple rule, and in fact, the Tittle will play a surprisingly good facsimile of a real game with well-simulated distances, ball flight, as well as chipping and putting, It does that because it changes algorithms based on the club selected and the category of club (wood, iron, wedge, putter). The ES tour uses a similar strategy, refining the algorithm to the club, and in the case of ES Tour plus, based on the needs of the sensor. Putting and Chips are based on the amazing near IR stereo camera pair, whereas woods, irons are based on Radar and cameras. So whatever algorithm gives the best results for the sensor is the way to go. pen

              What happens with ES Tour Plus, is something called 'data fusion' where all the sensors can be combined to give ALL data points on a swing. That is club information as well as ball information. It's from that, you get a good quality simulation. That is the reason I picked the ES Tour Plus over a Skytrak. The Mevo+ unfortunately would not work in my environment, but it's a respectable LM as well. Putting with ES TP in E6 Connect is like amazingly good for me. Chipping is pretty real, wedge play looks to be spot on, woods and irons work well and you get what you would expect. The fact that you give it a hint as to the type of club only improves the simulation.

            • Jon
              Jon commented
              Editing a comment
              You’ve been using tittle x, optishot and Rmotion. When you have been driving a Pinto and trade it in for beat up 25 year old miata, you might be impressed by some of it’s sportier aspects. But when it breaks down, your gonna have to pay the junk yard to take it off your hands.

            • Chuck
              Chuck commented
              Editing a comment
              Funny thing Jon, I own a 25year old Miata. A 1995 black Miata in nearly perfect condition except for some minor rust. It's my baby. How did you know? I hope whatever LM you find in the future fits your needs.

          • #9
            Fellas, this is why we have the forum...you gotta read the years of experiences BEFORE you make your decisions to buy and then if it feels like it's worth the risk, it's your own risk. This same thing goes back years...nothing new.

            my two cents.

            Comment


            • #10
              Chuck, I may have hastily dissed the Miata. No doubt your baby is fly.

              I’m happy to say that today, I recovered my $2730. It took several months between all the back n forth trying to get my es tour plus working and all the broken promises from es, but it is over now. If you we’re screwed by Ernest sports, you can be made whole as well.

              I filed a claim with my credit card company, archived my communications and stated my case. I had to be patient and wait 45 days for the bank to rule on my claim. 45 days is up. The bank reimbursed me and you can be reimbursed too.
              All I can say is, never again.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #11
                Well, good to hear that you got the issue resolved. I will agree it's a unit that has some quirks and it's a challenge to get some swings to be recognized, It takes time for quirks to show and longer to figure out what causes them. All LMs have their quirks for-sure. If I had a Skytrak, I would be asking the same question. Same for a Mevo+. Even my trusty TittleX would occasionally give a funky read (just rarely). But I'm just an amateur player. With these devices, we are playing against what the sensor picks up, and we rely on the companies to make good instruments and software that's reliable, picks up valid data, and has software to give us reliable consistent, and accurate measurements. So your right to pursue a refund if it wasn't delivering what you expected.

                I'm going into week 5 with my ES16 Tour Plus model it plays pretty good. The two things that are super frustrating with this tracker for me (while playing E6 Connect and I think the first is an E6 driver bug) are the occasional unexplained no-read shots on tee off (it kills confidence in your game and sim) which has to do with it staying in all-optical mode from putting or chipping in the previous hole. It should switch to the club the auto caddie selects for you at the tee off. The second thing maybe more related to the unit its no reads on sand-wedges. When it's a long wedge of 40+ yards, it seems OK with the exception of fat shots. Less than 40yrds in 'radar mode', it will sometimes take me 4-5 swings to finally launch something. I have reported these observations to Ernest Sports directly. All LMs have their quirks. The CHPP is fixable and 100% repeatable. I've yet to understand the SW issue in radar mode. The other thing I've found is that there are 'sweet spots' for ball placement in the different types of clubs. Drivers tee off at exactly 8" from the closest club side corner. All high woods work best 1" in front of that location, and ALL irons and wedges play best 7" and moved 1" forward. Putting works best 9" and moved 1" forward.

                With the little time I've had with it and the 1000s of swings I've made on it, I'm pretty sure I understand the tech involved. Getting it all to happen on an acoustic trigger in a narrow optical space while keeping track of the prior to impact swing data via radar, not an easy feat. What I want are more diagnostic tools so I can see what the device sees. Radar is fickle to all kinds of metal things, fluorescent lamps and IR optical can be affected by sunlight, in addition to other light sources. For the most part, the SW fails the most without explanation. All other clubs are pretty consistent in getting all data parameters with proper ball placement.

                And thanks for taking back the dis on Miatas. My 95 Miata MX-5 is really is a gem, top-down, no roll bar, pop-up headlights, very old school 90s. A real jellybean with a smile, chick magnet. Believe it or not, I can fit a bag of clubs in the trunk if I put the drivers in sideways. Anyway, take care Jon. I'm glad you got the problem resolved and thanks for keeping us up to date.
                Courses Created:
                Cresent Hill KY (L)
                Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
                Seneca GC KY (L) 18
                Charlie Vettiner KY (L)

                Comment


                • #12
                  Well chuck, I think you have one up on the rest of us in that you have a rather enlightened if not half glass full kind of perspective. It seems like you have learned quite a bit about using the ES tour+ and I'm sure you'll continue to be an excellent resource for other golfers trying to understand best practices for this unit. By the way, I have a client that drives a Miata, which he loves. He always asks me which clubs to bring to his lesson because he doesn't want to drive around with his golf bag in the front seat. Lol.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    I have to say Jon, there are some issues that have to be worked out. One is purely an E6 Connect bug specifically with the ES16 driver (possibly affecting the ES2020) where the Auto Caddy will leave the unit in CHIP mode (all-optical mode) for the next Tee after finishing a hole. This will drive anyone up the wall if they don't realize it and wing big fat no read after no read hard every swing. (It does it with all clubs at the tee). If you own one of these units and play the E6 Connect, be aware that you will manually need to change to some other club, and then back to the club you want to get it out of CHIP mode until this bug is fixed. Second I found the placement of the ball is critical to getting all of the numbers to register properly (so the hybrid radar/optical gets club and ball data with correct optical spin measurements). 8" out from the player - club side corner exactly for drivers. From that point draw T with the T's - topline to the target 1 ball space out, Put the ball for off the ground woods and hybrid there, on the Right side T use that for Irons SW and PW, the Left side for CHIP mode and putting. Using that trick, you will rarely get a miss-read in numbers. It doesn't fix hitting a fat shot even slight ones (which really is an issue with the audio trigger and how noisy the mat is). But even Skytrak and Mevo+ have their occasional miss-reads too.

                    You are right. It's my nature to figure out things like this. ES has been very nice when I talked to them and I didn't know (and apparently they didn't know) about the Tee off in CHIP mode bug in E6. It's painful to hear how much trouble you had with ES. I'm glad you got it resolved. I had several people warn me to stay away, but given what I know now, it's a very good unit that perhaps needs a much better user manual and advice on relatively noiseless mats for this unit.
                    Courses Created:
                    Cresent Hill KY (L)
                    Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
                    Seneca GC KY (L) 18
                    Charlie Vettiner KY (L)

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                      I have to say Jon, there are some issues that have to be worked out. One is purely an E6 Connect bug specifically with the ES16 driver (possibly affecting the ES2020) where the Auto Caddy will leave the unit in CHIP mode (all-optical mode) for the next Tee after finishing a hole. This will drive anyone up the wall if they don't realize it and wing big fat no read after no read hard every swing. (It does it with all clubs at the tee). If you own one of these units and play the E6 Connect, be aware that you will manually need to change to some other club, and then back to the club you want to get it out of CHIP mode until this bug is fixed. Second I found the placement of the ball is critical to getting all of the numbers to register properly (so the hybrid radar/optical gets club and ball data with correct optical spin measurements). 8" out from the player - club side corner exactly for drivers. From that point draw T with the T's - topline to the target 1 ball space out, Put the ball for off the ground woods and hybrid there, on the Right side T use that for Irons SW and PW, the Left side for CHIP mode and putting. Using that trick, you will rarely get a miss-read in numbers. It doesn't fix hitting a fat shot even slight ones (which really is an issue with the audio trigger and how noisy the mat is). But even Skytrak and Mevo+ have their occasional miss-reads too.

                      You are right. It's my nature to figure out things like this. ES has been very nice when I talked to them and I didn't know (and apparently they didn't know) about the Tee off in CHIP mode bug in E6. It's painful to hear how much trouble you had with ES. I'm glad you got it resolved. I had several people warn me to stay away, but given what I know now, it's a very good unit that perhaps needs a much better user manual and advice on relatively noiseless mats for this unit.
                      Chuck it’s hard to follow your ball placement guide. Is it possible to explain it with a diagram or video.

                      Comment


                      • Chuck
                        Chuck commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I see what I can do. Keep an eye out.

                    • #15
                      Chuck,

                      Thanks for all the information you've been posting. Very helpful. The driver bug is also occurring in tgc2019. It is annoying but glad to know how to rectify it. I just got the unit a week ago. Customer service has been great and the monitor seems to work well if you understand how it functions. Keep the tips coming!

                      I have not noticed the need to be so exact with ball placement. Do you think that some reads may not be as accurate as they should be without that exact placement?

                      Comment

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