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Maximize ES Tour Plus with an optimal setup

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  • Maximize ES Tour Plus with an optimal setup

    I've been playing around trying to find the optimal setup for the Ernest Sports ES Tour Plus on E6 Connect for several weeks now. I've had several shots where spin wasn't recorded, several no-read shots like others have reported but I also saw some absolutely robust measurements on some swings where all the data points hit the mark. A lot of the issues are from simply being unfamiliar with the device and its idiosyncrasies and time on the practice area in E6 Connect can really help. Out of the sessions, I began to see a pattern in what swing types returned really good measurements and gave the best simulation results. All results where club data is reported in E6 proved to have the truest most lifelike flight and ball spins. They make for a better more enjoyable game. 1st rule is pretty much the word with these units, get a ball that has bold lettering in a straight line across the ball. Callaway's logo doesn't work, but Srixon does. Place the ball with the lettering facing the center of the ES16TP with the logo parallel to the ground. The rest is what I found that works for me. If you have your own system I would like to hear it. So I've attached a diagram of what I've found to be optimal ball placement for each club type. Irons-PW-SWs are placed closer to the unit than woods. For putting, I found that it helps to toe-out the unit about 2 degrees. The tee is placed exactly 8" from the units toe. In this diagram, I show the optical field as only covering half the area, when it actually covers both sides. The purpose is to maximize the overlap of radar and optical! In outdoor mode, the unit is radar only. In Indoor mode (used for Simulation) it Hybrid/Radar and Optical, with two modes of pure optical CHIP and PUTT. CHIP mode is where you may see missed reads either because the ball movement was too fast or the ball traveled in a trajectory the cameras missed. Always on tee off, be sure to read the Club selection as I've found the auto-caddy of E6 wrongly set the unit into CHIP mode.

    When putting, be aware the window for ball motion is very small and a small imperfection in your putting surface will be compounded with distance to the hole. Your ball tee should be aligned to the center of your screen about 8ft-10ft away (I found 7ft works too but I can't attest to ball speed values).

    But basically, if you can get optical and radar to overlap, you will get very consistent robust reads.

    Now on to the acoustic trigger. For the most part, this works very well unless you're prone to digging in your club a little in front of your ball which I am. First, don't do that. You really don't want to do that anyway. But I thought I would test how sensitive it is. It does vary according to the type of clubs you use. Putting it's very very sensitive and just talking, popping open a can of beer will set it off. Other clubs like a driver require a really good bang to go off. What I couldn't understand was why my 3 wood would no read if I hit off-the-dirt a little too dirty. Well, I put an acoustic spectrum analyzer on my mat and if I just brushed the mat with my club, it looked almost like the sound pattern from a ball strike! This is from an Ultimat2 ("holds a tee") mat. Mats like mine are scratchy and noisy and a hit on them can mimic the signal of club impact. To my ears, it sounds completely different, but to a computer not much diff at all. So do what you should be doing and learn not to hit fat and just chalk this one up as a quirk of the device. If ES ever decides to take the ES2020 to the pricing realm of the hobbyist, its trigger is purely optical ball motion and has much faster cameras and should give everyone far fewer issues.
    Last edited by Chuck; 10-30-2020, 11:58 PM.
    Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
    Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
    Seneca GC KY (L) 18

  • #2
    This is an update on the diagram for optimal ball placement for the ES 16/Tour Plus after the latest firmware update is installed. You can update by going into the ES driving range software and when you connect the unit, it will prompt you to install the update. Apparently, they have adjusted the cameras as the ball placement has shifted slightly closer to the unit. The slight toe-out angle placement still applies but the angle depends on your setup. In E6 and I think TGC (correct me I'm wrong), then putting on a flat surface you would aim at the center of the screen. But the unit assumes it's parallel but does not take into account the parallel track the ball would follow if hit perfectly square. So as a result a perfectly parallel putt would be 7-8 inches in the simulation. So to counter acct that, take a line from the center of the screen to the ES16/TP then, then a line from the ES unit to the screen so it square, then replicate that on the earlier distance to on the other side of the square position. That is the point you would want to point the ES16 unit at. So if the screen is at 10ft, that angle might be very small, but at 8 ft, it might be 3-5 degrees.

    As best as I can tell from the limited time, it appears that the update improves the overlap between radar and the optical window which is great. It means we get to see more data per swing and have a better simulation experience. My brief testing seemed to confirm the improvement in the consistent capture of club and swing data. The optimal ball placement for club type is different for CHP and PUT modes vs the standard irons and wedges. Woods off the deck seems to play best where the irons play and the tee zone seems just further out. That's the impression I got. Indeed, one problem I had was getting the unit to see my ball Tee-ed up. I would sometimes have to lift the LM and move it until the light turned green. So that may be something new to contend with. I just hope not. Anyway here is the updated diagram:

    Oh, one last thing if your playing E6 Connect, there is a nasty bug that is specific to ES16/.Tour Plus, where the Autocaddy will place the LM unit into CHP mode instead of what is shown on the screen when you're at Tee-off. Either turn off Autocaddy (best solution) or check the club selected at tee off always. A no-read on a driver swing is maddening and will drive you to cuss like a pro.
    Last edited by Chuck; 12-05-2020, 01:16 AM.
    Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
    Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
    Seneca GC KY (L) 18

    Comment


    • Chuck
      Chuck commented
      Editing a comment
      Just a note: This diagram was for the pre-firmware update to version: 173. See the real layout in later comments.

  • #3
    Thanks Chuck! I've been meaning to ask, for putting surface, are you moving the unit, swapping out the turf, or just putting off of your hitting mat? I've been debating either building two mounts (or a forward sliding mount) based on the hitting vs putting mat or just building a tray with different turf. Right now I have been moving the unit back and forth between two marked areas. Either way, it seems as though it might be better to have a consistent mount that can adjust to the different shot types.

    Comment


    • Chuck
      Chuck commented
      Editing a comment
      Happy to contribute sbaart. I had so many misreads from that E6 bug it really made me look hard at my setup. I had a Ultimat2 (one of the thick 'holds-a-tee' type) but as I walked across it I noticed it made a lot of noise. So I thought maybe on some swings, brushing the turf would pre-trigger the cameras, and give a no-read. So I started thinking maybe I should look for a "Quite" turf. So I started searching for a fabric that could help. Believe it or not, this turned into a real physics challenge. It seemed that felt would be optimal for sound reduction, but as a turf could I find anything durable. Well at HomeDepot they had a rug made from recycled plastic that felt like felt made by FOSS. 6x8ft, $20 US.

      It seems to help with the sound problems, like 'dusting the grass' on an off the dirt 3-wood. I think it works but who knows. It's easy to blame bad golf on the gear. The Foss rug was a 6x8" gray and I have that over some 1" thick play area foam-floor squares over the concrete floor. I don't think this is going to that durable though. On the upside, it provides an excellent putting surface for the ES unit. It's very realistic at 20ft putting (in E6 Connect), and I've been able to get a 52ft putt once. It's pretty amazing for such a small optical window.

  • #4
    Putting on TGC is good. There will be a putting software update that will improve the horizontal accuracy.

    Comment


    • Chuck
      Chuck commented
      Editing a comment
      So there is a new firmware update coming for putting? I'm with you on the putting. It's pretty good. I have noticed it tends to float left or right just slightly on the 20ft flat greens but it's just inches at 20ft and it's hard to say if it's just a bad putt or a sim issue.

    • Bubba22
      Bubba22 commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes I think they will have a putting firmware update. Hopefully to improve horizontal accuracy. Chuck how is the chipping with 8 and 9 iron selected on the sim?

  • #5
    Well Bubba22, I've been playing now for a few weeks or so with this last firmware and I have to say the 8 and 9 iron chip-n-roll type shots are good; just sometimes frustrating if hit too hard (that's golf). It seems to pick up the grounders pretty well and when the swing is well done it makes a good realist ball flight. I'm going to update the diagram a little more as it seems like the optimal CHP/PTT area is a ball diameter further out than what I show. I do think the felt carpet has helped clean up some of the misses, but as I feared, it's just not durable. What the felt carpet does is interesting with the ES TP. It really teaches you is to not hit the ball fat, and to not try to get the club under the ball. If I could only remember that!

    What I've started doing on E6 when playing a course (not in a tournament) is to turn on infinite mulligans. If I get a misread but it comes out straight (ie, the unit caught ball flight with radar but missed on incoming club data and had to throw out club data and side-spin) I just mulligan the shot. I can tell almost immediately how well a shot will read simply by watching where on the screen the ball hit. If I'm even slightly fat I get a no-read, and depending on the club it can be near maddening, I just have to keep saying to myself, "you're hitting off of felt you don't need to be under the ball". I really want to see all 26 data points every single time I swing (good, bad, and ugly). I think the engineers need to look at some alternative trigger mechanisms by radar/acoustic modeling or something that can include fat shots in the mix.
    Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
    Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
    Seneca GC KY (L) 18

    Comment


    • #6
      Chuck are you selecting 8 or 9 iron in the software when chipping with those clubs? That’s what I mean. If I select CHP mode and use the 8 or 9 iron it works great. It’s when the software has those club selected and one does a short chip,the shot is exaggerated in distance.

      Comment


      • #7
        Oops on my part Bubba22, I thought you were asking about the CHP mode with an 8-9 iron. An 8 Iron or 9 Iron in "Radar" mode with a chip-like swing typically will do a no-read. I'm not sure why but I suspect the Radars just don't sample radar space robust enough to pick up a slow swing. So at 80ft plus it's doing all of the spin, clubface, ball, and swing modeling of a normal swing. If that is what the update was for, I give it some 80ft testing. I know in the CHP zone it's very close.
        Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
        Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
        Seneca GC KY (L) 18

        Comment


        • #8
          When in CHP mode using the 8 iron is fine. When 8 iron is selected and one chips with an 8 iron the ball speeds are read to long. They are coming out with a fix on this soon.

          Comment


          • #9
            Here is the tips suggested by Ernest Sports. The spin measurement with the ES16 Tour Plus is actually very good and greatly improved. Srixon Logos work very well.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #10
              OK. I understand now what your saying. Yeah, they have somethings club-specific in when doing short 30yrd type shots. FOR example, I had an SW chip shot (not CHP) off 'fringe' but thought I was putting, and when I putted, the ball flew 10ft and then began to spin back 3ft. Putting I usually put forward spin (topspin) so they have some weirdness going on there. I've seen a few other things in chipping and putting. The last update I have is version fw/173. All I can say is after that release my putting is pathetic (coincidence? not sure). Things are simply weird with wedges after this last upgrade at least in my last game. I had perfectly straight SW (not CHP) go extreme Right when the ball actually hit center screen. There were 3 ot 4 like that in my last game, so I wonder if this upgrade fixed anything.
              Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
              Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
              Seneca GC KY (L) 18

              Comment


              • #11
                Wow, thanks for putting this together! I just received my ES Tour Plus and I'm a lefty so I hope you don't mind I crudely photoshopped this to simplify viewing from the other side of the ball.

                Click image for larger version

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                Comment


                • #12
                  Awesome Bgolfer! I was thinking about the Lefties, but I wasn't quite sure how to get it there. Anyway, I have another update that may help explain all of this. As I noted, the new update seems to have a different layout for the ball positions. This is what I've found seems to work best. It's the same sort of layout, but you will see how spread out the placement is. In the image, the circle closest to the LM is for optimal placement of SW-3Iron and Hybrids. The 3W-7W off the deck can be placed anywhere in between the center circle and the inner circle. The center circle is optimal for a tee-ed up balls and is optimal for the driver. The outer circle is for the CHP and PTT modes on the ES tour plus (the pure optical mode).
                  Last edited by Chuck; 12-21-2020, 05:58 AM.
                  Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
                  Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
                  Seneca GC KY (L) 18

                  Comment


                  • Brettster
                    Brettster commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Chuck - so I'm really curious, does the ball placement have to be that specific, looks like it's very tight placement? Or is there a range that it can be placed at in those areas where it is marked? That would have a big effect on the placement area giving you enough room to hit off of different turf, unless that is just not an option already because ES cannot read off of turf other than Fairway?

                • #13
                  Thanks for the info chuck. Have you shown ernest sports your findings? Curious what they say about it and if they had plans to communicate ideal ball placement to their customers. I had sent them a few bugs I found with their data export as far as units of measure they had in their data but haven’t heard anything back. For what it is worth I am in your boat where the unit works well enough. I still lose club data a lot on driver and I question the putting distance accuracy sometimes but I am no pro at knowing how fast a green speed 8 should be lol. Your ball position findings are intriguing for sure though and I will check my firmware version tomorrow and play with those positions.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Chuck - thanks for this great advice. I printed out your page and translated it to a cardboard template and I'm eager to see how it performs. A grateful user just sending my thanks!
                    My Published Course:
                    Green Harbor (L) - MA, Marshfield, MA
                    Stow Acres North (L) - MA, Stow MA

                    Comment


                    • #15

                      Considering the documentation that comes with the ESTP, I think they could use a diagram and some photos to help explain the system. I wish they would put it online as help for new users. In the case of the last firmware update to v173, The placement for putting and chipping (PTT and CHP) is really very different from ball placement for wedges-irons- hybrids, and for woods and driver. 7-9 inches for most clubs, 11-12 inches for the all-optical CHP and PUT modes. So far what seems optimal is SW-PW 9-4 irons to hybrids play at 7". Driver and woods, 8"-9" out. For the most part, you will get all of the radar club measurements and optical spin measurements. It will get your draws and fades, worm burners, and moon shots pretty nicely.

                      For E6 Connect specifically, the wedge play is split into shots > 25 Yards, and <25 Yards. Greater than 25 yards (75ft), it plays at 7" with the radar optical mode, less the 25 yards you may want the all-optical CHP mode that plays at 11-12" out and 2" out from the LM foot. From what I see, It doesn't read spin in all-optical mode but is more precise with ball flight. PTT is the putting mode and plays at 11-12" out (the same as CHP). It can be pretty acurate but you need a very flat smooth surface for the ball to travel while the optical sensors sample. It's a pretty small path measured in putt mode (less than 1ft) your 56ft putt will need to be perfect for the first 12 inches or so.

                      Anyway, I think with CHP and PTT modes on the ESTP, the ball placement at 11-12 inches helps by providing a wider field of view to the cameras giving a more accurate optical sample.

                      In gameplay with E6 Connect, I've been having pretty good luck with the new ball placement scheme. Best of luck nickfisher47, it sounds like a great idea. My biggest tip though is In E6 Connect always check the Club selection on the LM at tee-off. You don't want to take a big driver swing or two or three only to find out the unit was in CHP mode. Also. if you want to go into CHP mode from SW mode, just select the SW club again in the club selection dialog, and your unit will switch from SW to CHP mode if you're in CHP range of <75ft or so. Have fun. Great unit.
                      Last edited by Chuck; 01-04-2021, 06:36 AM.
                      Courses Created: Cresent Hill KY (L)
                      Cherokee Park KY (L) 9
                      Seneca GC KY (L) 18

                      Comment

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