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Ernest Sports ES16 - New Camera Based LM

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  • I was wondering about the technique those of you use to calibrate the unit, in particular ball positioning. It seems to me, I get the best results when I place the ball down with the ball logo horizontal and pointing at the right edge of the right foot. (right handed) Even with this setup, I still seem to often get those horizontal launches that are 2 to 3 degrees off. (I know that is not much, but it makes a difference) For example, the ball strikes the screen 1 degree to the left of center, yet the system reports 4 degrees left or 2 degrees right of center. This type of thing is of course most noticeable when putting.

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    • Hi all,

      I own an ES16 (not yet sure I can say that I am proud to own an ES16), and I have been a passive reader of the threads on the ES16 over the last year or so, while i tried to come to terms with the disappointing performance and accuracy. However, as others indicated the 152 firmware update seems to have been a great improvement. And a few minutes ago, very surprisingly I actually received a notification email from Ernest saying that version 154 has been released and that it improves the club head speed algorithm. First of all, nice that they finally send out notifications for updates, I hope they continue this. Second, I had noticed that club speed numbers varied a lot on similar swings but it hadnt been my primary concern as horizontal launch and spin axis caused so many problems until recently. I am not able to test the latest upgrade at the moment, but keen to hear about any changes people notice.

      I am finally hopeful again that the ES16 will turn out to be a good investment but I am still concerned about the release of the new 'white' ES16 and how much it will cost existing users to upgrade.

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      • I also got the email and I upgraded. Club speed for wedges still appears a bit low, but 9 iron and up seems fairly close to my trackman numbers. Other wise, it seems very similar to FW 152, which it should. I proposed a method for ball logo position during calibration. I now have to say it does not work any better, so never mind. I do think one should use a T square to insure the unit is straight up and down.

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        • I got the email and figured I would give it a try because I have had no luck on downloading FW 1.52, glad to say FW 1.54 downloaded fine, I calibrated my system and gave it a try. Wedges seem to be long for me (see photo, I normally get 110 total on my PW) I am only getting club face data on about half of my driver hits with one wild reading (I posted a photo of). I only hit about 30 shots but I am not impressed with what I got so far, Irons are OK I guess only miss club data on a few of them but really more than it should have, but for the most part it showed about what I would expect to see on my iron shots, a few a bit short and a few a bit long but for the most part in the neighborhood. I still would not recommend for anyone to buy a ES-16, as it still does not live up to what it claims to be.

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          • BG:
            I would say you are talking about statements like the one below from their website.

            "With this revolutionary design, the ES16 Tour delivers more direct measurements and provides the most precise club and ball data available".


            Lofty claims to be sure.

            My wedges are about a half club long. The rest of the clubs are not bad. I still get those overly long ones, with irons in particular when I hit a pull draw. I also still get those shots that go +10 degrees to the right once in a while when the ball hits about the center of the screen. I have to agree, some shots seem to go a bit shorter while other go a bit longer than they should. In other words, distance variations seem larger than real.

            For me, it is far better than it was a couple of months ago and most shots are now reasonable. I get all of the club data on over 95% of my shots. Although, I would not yet count on it for club fitting.

            I can call the ball flight on most shots before they are displayed and I can complete a round in TGC without throwing up my hands. Those are big pluses in restoring confidence.

            Would I recommend others to purchase it? Tough call for now. I would have to say I would hedge, but it is getting closer to a yes. At this point in time, I am not disappointed in my purchase.

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            • Went over my data and actually I get all club data on 89% of my shots and as BG indicated, most of the missed info is for the driver.

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              • Yes Stonebattle, that along with the claim that it works indoors and outdoors, along with other claims. It also gets me as to the advertisement it had when I bought mine and how it has changed with nothing being said about it. I asked Jim about the Club speed profile, and Club acceleration profile just before they were taken off the advertisement but I never did get a straight answer about them, seems to me that was one of the big selling points and would have been a big help on working on ones swing. They had some high claims and promises as to what the ES-16 would and could do, now it seems they want to just forget about those of us who bought one, and go onto their new system as if though it is something completely different than what the ES-16 was claimed to be. I guess they think that stopping comparing it to the GC2 or GCQ and comparing it to a Trackman makes all the difference in the world or at lest that is my understanding.

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                • Hey BG:
                  I feel your pain. I noticed the changes to their website, although I was not overly concerned about most of it. The only one I thought hit their credibility significantly was the use of the unit outdoors. Obviously, they have found out the unit they produced will not work there. To me, anyone that intended to use the unit outdoors should get their money back. That is not me. I just want the dang thing to work in my indoor simulator.

                  I went ahead and bought a unit when Bubba and others began posting reasonable and improving results. The guys that were posting results have credibility.

                  If Ernest Sports gets the unit to produce consistently reasonable club and ball data indoors, I will be happy. They are not there yet, but I am not going to ask for them to take my unit back unless it breaks of course.

                  I take it they will not take your unit back?

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                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Sad thing is the unit will seem to work at times then quit registering properly, the one I have seem to register differently when you turn it off and back on. I wanted mine mainly for indoor use but I did want to be able to take it out to the range from time to time.
                    I told Jim last year around October that I had had enough of fighting with the ES-16 and wanted a full refund, and I has been promised I could get one at anytime and was not going to be held to a time line as you can see from the email I posted in my earlier post. He said I had been very helpful to Ernest Sports in improving the ES-16 and made a deal with me to keep using the ES-16 to see what else I could find with it. I agreed to that with the understanding that I would get a new unit when they came out at no cost to me. Now Jim is trying to claim that I had agreed for that deal to be a full settlement and not to post any bad reports about the ES-16 or Ernest Sports. Now I know Jim has a silver tongue but I don't see even him being able to talk someone out of a full return for just a fraction of what it would be, I know I am not that big a fool. Problem I see now is I have lost so much faith in Ernest Sports and what they say and do, that I don't know that I would even want the new unit for free. I am talking to a lawyer and looking in to some other option that can be taken, but Ernest Sports is far from hearing the last from me. If need be I will post all the emails, pictures and communication I have from Ernest Sports along with putting the videos on to YouTube.

                • BG:
                  Wow tough issues. They are having a lot of issues, my guess one is cash flow.

                  You are right about the unit being different after restarting. It seems it looses its mind at times and requires a restart to get back on track. For example, the unit will all of a sudden not sense wedge shots, or shots will be way off for distance or direction, but once the unit is turned of for a few seconds and then restarted, it gets back on track. A pain in the middle of a round. I just discovered this issue although was aware this might be happening before now.
                  Last edited by Stonebattle; 11-19-2017, 05:04 PM.

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                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I understand they are having a lot of issues, and cash flow could very well be one of them. I have bent over backwards to work with them and believe me I know the problems with cash flow I am a disabled veteran and on a fixed income I had to take out a loan to buy the ES-16 I got and was told I could no longer get the Veteran's discount because they were being discounted so deeply, the ES-16, care plan, and TGC cost me $6950.00. Like I said I understand having issues but when they stop answering calls, and emails, and make empty promises that is a whole different realm. If they call and say this is going to be delayed for such and such reason I would work with them. But when you are told we are sending you this, and you call and are told your call will be returned and you hear nothing back, or you send an email and get no reply it makes you think they could care less, or at lest it does me and that is just what happened. Jim told me last year that he was going to send me the new balls, then he told me he couldn't find anyone to print the logos they way they wanted them. I told him to talk to OnCore golf because I had seen some stuff they were doing, he said he would give that a try. When I asked latter on if had talked to them he told me they had found someone else and they were being printed. Then later on when I asked about when they would be sent I was told they had been printed wrong and they were having to reprint them. Seems it is always one excuse after the other, a promise of something that never shows and when you ask about it then it is either something went wrong or they didn't recall you were interested or having a problem. I can't believe I am the only one they are doing this way, but then things happen in life, wish it was all one big misunderstanding but I really do not believe that is the case.

                • In my case, their responses have been a bit slow at times, although I have not had the issues you have had.
                  I am still in the mode of doing what I can to help them get this thing to work as advertised.

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                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I wish you the best of luck at it, I would have love to see it live up to it's claims I really would. But as for me I am tired of being put off and told to wait for something that either never shows or takes up to three or more months to get here. I have been lucky enough to work on many projects in my life and love being able to see something be built up and preform as claimed and I like being a part of getting it to do so. But I don't like it being one sided and have nothing but empty promises made to me when I fulfill my part of the agreement. I think everyone should be treated fairly, and I think when someone makes a deal with you they should stick to it. To many times I have made deals stuck to what I said I would do, only to be left out in the cold when all was said and done and I am tired of being treated that way. I don't want anything extra, I just want to be treated fairly and I think everyone else deserves the same. I sent an email to Joe Ernest showing him an email I had sent Jim, and what I had said in it about the deal between Jim and me, and what Jim had said in return. I am waiting to see what he has to say about it, I sent a copy to him, Jim. and Rob.

                • BG:
                  I take it they will not give you a refund after all of this?

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                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    According to Jim they will not, but I haven't heard back from Joe Ernest or Rob at this point, I have sent two email but so far I have had no reply. Like I said it is far from over and I have saved everything I have received from them so I can show all the promises that were made and never fulfilled. I feel I have been put off and stalled long enough and believe me they are good at that.

                • BG:
                  I hope you come away with a good outcome.

                  As for me, I carefully re-calibrated the unit and it seems to be back to normal. That is, I can call most shots before they show up on the screen. I suppose this last issue may be some type of firmware bug. I have let the folks at Ernest Sport know about what happened.

                  Comment


                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well I hope so myself, I have calibrated my ES-16 over and over, I have sent Ernest Sports uncounted photo, videos, and reports, my degree is in electronics and I have calibrated medical equipment and various high end test equipment, and even done work for the DOD, yet Jim wanted me to send them a video of me calibrating my ES-16 just so they could see it was done right. Turns out after it was sent back to them and they took it apart they claimed it had taken a hit and had broken components. Now I will not argue that it didn't because it very well could have without my knowledge because I did let people try playing on it unsupervised. But I felt it was a bit of a stretch when they tried to put this blame on me for the miss diagnoses, when I had sent them all the information I had about what was going on. My whole point is that the ES-16 does not do what it was claimed it would do back when I bought mine, and I feel I have given Ernest Sports way more than ample time to correct the problem. And after all the company has put me through I have no faith left in their word or their product. This was suppose to be a game improving device, I truly think my game has gotten worse on account of it and gotten me to the point that I am not sure I want to deal with a Golf simulator or launch monitor of any kind. All I wanted to do was play a little golf and have some fun, did not want to beta test a new prototype which is what it turned out to be.

                • BGCurtis2nd Really sorry about your experience, but I think it's an important lesson to be learned for potential future customers. I was thinking of purchasing one last year but ultimately decided to hold off because of the bad reviews of the other ES products. It's extremely disturbing that they won't refund your purchase because of you posting your experience on the forums. I think it's safe to say that so far ES16 has been a huge disappointment.

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                  • BGCurtis2nd
                    BGCurtis2nd commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well I really don't think it has anything to do we me posting on the form, it was suggested to me by Jim to sell my ES-16 to someone else. I ask for a refund shortly after I got it and was told if I would just give them some time they would make it right and make it worth my wild to do so, I was also told I could get a refund at anytime if they couldn't get it right. They make deals then do just like they do on their advertisement, change it to fit what they need it to be after the fact.

                • I played another round today at Pebble Beach. Had over a dozen misreads and 4 no reads. The ES 16 lost its way again about half way through the round. I was hitting a 9 iron, actually a 44.5 degree wedge, and the ball carried over 158 yards 6 times. I rewound 6 times and then reset the unit by turning it off for a few seconds and then back on. I gave the unit a few seconds to reestablish connection with TGC and things worked reasonably well the rest of the round. Looks like they have a bug in FW 154 and perhaps previous versions. I think that because I have seen this before, but did not know how to resolve it. Anyway, if any of you are having club carry distances go way to far, you may want to try and reset the unit.

                  Comment


                  • I received a call from one of the form members, that I have a lot of faith in what they have to say, and on his advice called and talked to Jim at Ernest Sports. We have cleared up a big misunderstanding and have reach a settlement that is agreeable to both myself and Ernest Sports.

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