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2K Announces The New PGA TOUR 2K21 (TGC2021) Game!!!

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  • 2K Announces The New PGA TOUR 2K21 (TGC2021) Game!!!

    Just announce with more info coming May 14th, no current sign of PC though

  • #31
    Originally posted by shwag33 View Post


    If you're not using it as a simulator then you don't need to buy TGC or E6 no matter what the price.

    This most likely is not coming to the sim in my opinion, but could be wrong. TGC2 was skipped. Most likely we won't get another sim version till 2023 if it comes at all. TGC1 was released in 2014 (not sure when it came on the sim.). The next tgc sim release was in 2019.
    TGC2 was different. It was abandoned quickly for 2019. ProTee was working on rolling it out then moved to 2019. I don't think TGC2 had a lot of legs.
    My Courses:
    Weston G&CC by mthunt RCR
    London Hunt Club L mthunt RCR
    Park CC Lidar mthunt RCR
    Sunningdale GC Robinson L RCR
    Sunningdale GC Thompson L RCR
    Twin Peaks Desert Fictional
    Muirfield Village (liDAR) First Ever Lidar course
    Country Club of Castle Pines (liDAR) RCR
    The Sanctuary GC ProTee L RCR
    National GC of Canada RCR
    Mississaugua G&CC mthunt RCR
    Shaughnessy G&CC L mthunt
    mthunt Range Fictional
    The Meadows 5047 mthunt Fictional

    Comment


    • shwag33
      shwag33 commented
      Editing a comment
      We just need them to fix a few glitches an TGC19 would be great. Not everyone can hit it as high as you!

    • mthunt
      mthunt commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree 100%. Little things too.

  • #32
    Based on the very small sampling of the game that they show in the trailer, it really doesn't look at all different from the PC/console version of TGC2019. Hopefully there will be a longer trailer released next week.

    I think the big difference maker (for myself at least) concerning any new sim software would be implementing the PGA Tour licensing, which is the fundamental difference between TGC on the sim and on a console. For me personally, that would be a big selling point.



    Comment


    • Jtangm04
      Jtangm04 commented
      Editing a comment
      Making sim players play on the tour from the same pins... I can picture the scoreboard now: Mcllroy -7, Rahm -4, Koepka -2, Tang +45

    • 3on3putt
      3on3putt commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol yes, it would definitely take some work-arounds to figure out how to do it effectively.

    • shwag33
      shwag33 commented
      Editing a comment
      I feel like we get that atmosphere on discord... from people on the leaderboards we actually know and talk to. The simulated 'pro' atmosphere doesnt do anything for me at all since I know it's computer generated. It's more impressive seeing guys like Nick and Marc online crushing these courses every week.

  • #33
    I guess we will wait and see how things work out. We will see more in a week!

    Comment


    • #34
      I hope for better cooperation between the HB developers, real golf subject mater experts and whoever gets the simulator rights. TGC19 has so much potential if they would fix the BUGS.

      Comment


      • #35
        It would be nice if a consumer-friendly (price) version that enables using real golf clubs with the game was launched for home use.

        I can understand that the licensing is expensive for commercial installations. Especially since the graphics and physics are getting more and more realistic in every version and therefore the software is readily usable in a commercial simulator setup with a high end launch monitor.

        But I think the market is a bit immature when it comes to providing a great experience for the home user. If you play with your PC or your console, you purchase the game at about the same price as any other game. You can still project the game to a large screen without extra effort if you have a home cinema setup. But if you want to use you clubs as the game controller, connecting to the software with e.g. a launch monitor that a home user might have (SkyTrak, now Mevo+), you have to pay a hard premium price to get the software working.

        As an example from another sport, playing a high quality driving game with high end driving simulator setups (chair, wheel, etc.) does not include paying a premium to be able to do so.

        I assume we're heading towards a situation where a home launch monitor user has a golf game available for home simulator use (you can play anywhere you can hit a ball with a golf club, doesn't have to be indoors in a special room), he doesn't have to pay extra for this controller option. Sincerely hope we get there sooner than later.

        Comment


        • DS12
          DS12 commented
          Editing a comment
          There is a cheaper option than TGC for Skytrak, Fitness Golf, less detailed, sure, but has some courses and I believe a course designer

          I agree with your comment about how they could just use the data inputs from the launch monitor as the controller, and you can see this in the preview for VG Pro on YouTube (planned release Q3 2020) where he changes the ball parameters as he simulates golf shots on a range or course.

          I am shocked this new simulator software hasn't been discussed more, especially since we're nearing Q3. Not sure on pricing and there hasn't been any other updates than the preview video that I'm aware of

        • mthunt
          mthunt commented
          Editing a comment
          RMotion with TGC is pretty cheap

      • #36
        Speculation on upgrades with TGC sim version always occurs when HB comes out with a new version of TGC. This discussion of timing, cost, enhanced features etc will always be discussed and debated. This is not confined to TGC but has the same discussion with all sim software including Red Chain, E6, JNPG etc in the past. Healthy opinions and discussions is a good thing but at the end of the day, it is what it is. No one will ever know the exact inside financial flow of any company. Those who love TGC2019 should sit tight and enjoy what we have and look forward to any upgrades, if and when the time comes.

        Comment


        • #37
          Has anyone ever seen info on how many LMs are out there? When discussing what would be a fair price, it would be interesting to potentially understand the size of the market.

          Comment


          • andygg1986
            andygg1986 commented
            Editing a comment
            There are roughly 14k GC2s which have been around for around 10 years. But a large number of those are in golf stores and used for fittings. Purely a guess, but I would bet the entire home market is under 20k launch monitors. Maybe 3/4 of the people use as a sim. At $1000 per license, even if Protee got everyone to buy their software that’s only $15 mil spread out over 5+ years.

        • #38
          Originally posted by Martlec View Post
          Has anyone ever seen info on how many LMs are out there? When discussing what would be a fair price, it would be interesting to potentially understand the size of the market.
          The numbers are smaller than you think especially given that there are several software options and not every launch monitor will buy sim software. Some folks will simply use the range software. What we can say is that there are way more PC’s and Xbox’s than home sims.

          Comment


          • #39
            I understand the current market situation with a limited number of people, mostly pros earning their living, using quite expensive launch monitors to get the accurate swing data required for a realistic simulator experience. In this market it’s natural to have a chain of companies producing the pieces that form the flow of data from the player to the simulator screen.

            But this market is changing now that you can buy a quality launch monitor that gives truly accurate data on all necessary parameters at a price that many more people find reasonable. So when it comes to launch monitors, we are in a new market situation already and it’s picking up speed with more less expensive devices popping up.

            I’m just saying that

            a) since the simulator software already has a physics model that models the ball flight pretty realistically, given the required data parameters
            b) and since a regular golf enthusiast like me can already purchase a quality lower cost LM (SkyTrak and Mevo+) that provides the data of these parameters from a normal strike truly accurately (enough)

            it should be a non-issue to make these two talk to each other in a normal game controller manner.

            So if e.g. Flightscope provided the device drivers for Windows as part of the LM package and TGC provided support for this type of a controller out of the box, problem solved? No need for special expensive software licenses for simulator play. Rapidly growing user base, I would think.

            Comment


            • #40
              Originally posted by kahi View Post
              I understand the current market situation with a limited number of people, mostly pros earning their living, using quite expensive launch monitors to get the accurate swing data required for a realistic simulator experience. In this market it’s natural to have a chain of companies producing the pieces that form the flow of data from the player to the simulator screen.

              But this market is changing now that you can buy a quality launch monitor that gives truly accurate data on all necessary parameters at a price that many more people find reasonable. So when it comes to launch monitors, we are in a new market situation already and it’s picking up speed with more less expensive devices popping up.

              I’m just saying that

              a) since the simulator software already has a physics model that models the ball flight pretty realistically, given the required data parameters
              b) and since a regular golf enthusiast like me can already purchase a quality lower cost LM (SkyTrak and Mevo+) that provides the data of these parameters from a normal strike truly accurately (enough)

              it should be a non-issue to make these two talk to each other in a normal game controller manner.

              So if e.g. Flightscope provided the device drivers for Windows as part of the LM package and TGC provided support for this type of a controller out of the box, problem solved? No need for special expensive software licenses for simulator play. Rapidly growing user base, I would think.
              Interesting comments. I have no idea how they connect but all sim software is based on an older video game. Each one needed to be recoded largely to make it work in a simulator. I do know that. In these days things get cheaper all the time and so has software. The last software from ProTee was double this one.
              My Courses:
              Weston G&CC by mthunt RCR
              London Hunt Club L mthunt RCR
              Park CC Lidar mthunt RCR
              Sunningdale GC Robinson L RCR
              Sunningdale GC Thompson L RCR
              Twin Peaks Desert Fictional
              Muirfield Village (liDAR) First Ever Lidar course
              Country Club of Castle Pines (liDAR) RCR
              The Sanctuary GC ProTee L RCR
              National GC of Canada RCR
              Mississaugua G&CC mthunt RCR
              Shaughnessy G&CC L mthunt
              mthunt Range Fictional
              The Meadows 5047 mthunt Fictional

              Comment


              • #41
                mthunt I checked out the Rapsodo R Motion. It's not a launch monitor but a swing analyzer, similar to the SkyPro I've been using (which is great for putting practice, by the way).

                What is interesting about the R Motion is that the TGC license is a bit cheaper than the one's for the real LMs. So (of course) it's a commercial issue for ProTee since they have to make a profit from the integration they have coded.

                As I noted, this integration is not any different than the integrations of all kinds of gaming controllers and mice etc. with a regular Windows OS -> it's easily possible for the LM manufacturers to produce the LM side of it (the device drivers) and similarly possible for the golf software houses to produce the golf software side of it. Normal stuff in other genres.

                But I do understand that the current business model of the LM market doesn't support this idea very well. There needs to be more competition in the lower end of the quality LM market for some manufacturer to start thinking about this seriously, to grow their user base by truly entering the consumer segment. It's nice to see that in addition to SkyTrak we now have also Mevo+. And there are a couple of let's say cheap radar LMs also already (Garmin G80, Rapsodo MLM etc.) even though they do not (at least yet) measure all the required data parameters to be usable with TGC or E6.

                Comment


                • #42
                  Originally posted by kahi View Post
                  mthunt I checked out the Rapsodo R Motion. It's not a launch monitor but a swing analyzer, similar to the SkyPro I've been using (which is great for putting practice, by the way).

                  What is interesting about the R Motion is that the TGC license is a bit cheaper than the one's for the real LMs. So (of course) it's a commercial issue for ProTee since they have to make a profit from the integration they have coded.

                  As I noted, this integration is not any different than the integrations of all kinds of gaming controllers and mice etc. with a regular Windows OS -> it's easily possible for the LM manufacturers to produce the LM side of it (the device drivers) and similarly possible for the golf software houses to produce the golf software side of it. Normal stuff in other genres.

                  But I do understand that the current business model of the LM market doesn't support this idea very well. There needs to be more competition in the lower end of the quality LM market for some manufacturer to start thinking about this seriously, to grow their user base by truly entering the consumer segment. It's nice to see that in addition to SkyTrak we now have also Mevo+. And there are a couple of let's say cheap radar LMs also already (Garmin G80, Rapsodo MLM etc.) even though they do not (at least yet) measure all the required data parameters to be usable with TGC or E6.

                  When you look back at the history of simulators there has been a great progression favouring the consumer. Years ago you needed to spend 50 thousand to afford a home simulator. I would say that the introduction of the Dancing Dogg (now Optishot) and P3pro were critical in the home golf simulator invasion. This was followed by higher end units such the Protee, Golftek etc. All these units had a included proprietary software with no choice of buying any other software. It was quite expensive to actually buy their software. The obvious addition of launch monitors combined with simulator software was inevitable. This promoted different simulator units to allow integration with different software, certainly not for free but at a cost. I don’t think we will ever get to the point that software will be free but I can tell you that the cost has gone down significantly from before. As well we have more options of integration. There certainly will be more low cost launch monitors produced but nothing will ever be free.
                  Last edited by Bubba22; 05-09-2020, 02:27 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #43
                    Not free of course. I will always merrily pay for the software. But right now you have to pay a large extra cost of several hundred dollars to get the software working with the launch monitor while it works with a game controller without any extra. In the case of TGC 2019 the game itself is only 50 but the integration software is almost a 1000.

                    Totally agree that the market has taken great steps toward getting consumer friendly but this last integration hurdle remains to be tackled.

                    Comment


                    • #44
                      Originally posted by kahi View Post
                      Not free of course. I will always merrily pay for the software. But right now you have to pay a large extra cost of several hundred dollars to get the software working with the launch monitor while it works with a game controller without any extra. In the case of TGC 2019 the game itself is only 50 but the integration software is almost a 1000.

                      Totally agree that the market has taken great steps toward getting consumer friendly but this last integration hurdle remains to be tackled.
                      I'm not sure we all understand what goes into developing the sim side of the software, integration production, server maintenance, troubleshooting etc. Software has become more complex with online play etc. Look I hear you. Look back at my historical comments about GC2. As other sims were reducing their software costs, Foresight was actually increasing their software costs which I never liked. I just don't think there will be open source launch monitors and open source simulator software in the future unless someone in the community develops some high end software and decides to share with the world. What the "fair costs" of the hardware or software will always be a debate and change with time. What you get for say TGC 2019 is way better than what I paid for in say 2010.

                      Comment


                      • #45
                        Sorry for the longish posts but this integration issue is a very interesting topic! And I’m posting these from my phone...

                        Let’s see where the new TGC (2K) takes us when it comes to launch monitor use, I’m hoping it’s so good that more and more people start wondering how they could play it with their own clubs instead of ”just” the game controller or the mouse.

                        The TGC brand seems to be the only golfing software now that is both simulating real golf courses with quality realism (graphics gradually heading towards photorealism) and is available to both gaming use (PS4, XBOX, PC) and simulator use with many launch monitors.

                        Some observations on the current market situation for TGC 2019 use in simulator golfing with a quality launch monitor:

                        - In addition to providing the expensive integration to TGC 2019 many simulator companies are also providing their own simulation software in the form of playable golf courses. The fact that they try to compete in both building the hardware and the course simulation software is a heavy burden on these companies. There’s really no point in building the simulation software if they can provide a high quality simulation experience for their hardware users otherwise. Especially in the consumer segment.

                        - The TGC/2K quality is improving with each version and since simulating golf in 3D is not very movement heavy, we can expect to see the rapid improvement in computer graphics to be quickly utilized in golfing games and simulation. Ray tracing, photorealistic texture mappings, photorealistic 3D assets, HDR and wider color gamut will all combine to give us an extremely good golf simulation experience.

                        - The support for TGC 2019 with a launch monitor is still totally dependent on paying the integration premium. The latest and to me the most interesting current hardware, the Mevo+ is promoted by Flightscope purely for personal use. It comes with Flightscope’s own apps and a couple of E6 courses without extra cost but the software package doesn’t include TGC 2019 in any form and is only for IOS, no Windows integration out of the box. So to play TGC 2019 with a launch monitor on a PC, you have to pay the expensive integration cost.

                        - Due to the course designer, the TGC community is already amazing, with enthusiastic individuals building unbelievable courses using LIDAR data. And you can play them with no extra cost. Unless HB Studios drops the designer from 2K21, this momentum will keep on growing.

                        - As a risk factor, I don’t see a competitor for TGC/2K right now. But because of their open community approach so far, I’m not very concerned.
                        Last edited by kahi; 05-10-2020, 06:38 AM.

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