R-Motion validity as a practice tool?

[jdoorny]

I'm interested in using the R-motion to improve my game.

I understand the limitations of predicting ball flight using only club data. That topic is covered thoroughly in other threads.

My question is: How accurate is the R-motion measurement of face angle and swing path?

If it can measure those with relative certainty, then it would be a valid practice tool, even if it doesn't create a perfect simulation. Everything (including their website) just says 'Accurate measurement'. Are we talking accurately within +-2 degrees, or accurate within +-0.002 degrees? and does that accuracy depend on sensor placement or other variables?

Can Rapsodo provide technical specs, or someone with multiple launch monitors run some testing?

[schmidt61059]

I've been using an R-motion for about 2 months now. I can't answer with the level of accuracy you are calling for, but, I'd say swing path is pretty accurate. If by face angle you mean open/closed, then it's a whole different matter. You will notice that Rapsodo says you must "square" the club face before starting the swing. So what it's actually doing is reading your impact position relative to that original reading. As I noted in other posts, that means that if you have it "closed" but actually hit the ball square it's going to call that open. This happens to me all the time. And it doesn't have to be off by much. I've hit plenty of shots that I can see and feel are going left IRL that turn out to be massive slices. Clip placement also affects this. This was very true for me with putting. All of my putts were going right in the software, even tho' I could see that they were not on the floor. I turned the clip much farther right than it seems like it should be, and it fixed the problem. If by face angle you mean relative loft, then that's not provided, but launch angle is sort of a proxy for it. It's hard to say but it seems like it's also pretty accurate.

I'd say the weakest element is chipping. I'm using Almost Golf balls, so that might be an issue, but I get tons of non-reads and results that seem pretty far off real life.

If someone has done multiple launch monitor testing with R-Motion, I'd dearly love to see it. I'm looking at getting a SkyTrak. If I do, I intend to do that testing myself and post the results.

Here is a look at what you will actually see. And, yes, sadly, my 150-yard club is a 6I IRL, on a good day:

[schmidt61059]

Well, I see my screenshot is not showing up now. Sorry about that. I'm not well-versed in that sort of thing.

[jdoorny]

Thanks for the response.

Another way to ask the question: If you were a coach or just a mid/low handicap, would you feel comfortable using the data it measures (club face, and swing path) to suggest swing changes?

[schmidt61059]

So someone with more credentials than me could answer better, but I guess I'd be a weasel and say "it depends." Coach: probably not ... unless working with mid/low handicaps. The irony, I guess you'd call it, of R-motion is that the better you are, the better it is. That is, moderate to severe mishits report nothing meaningful at all. Shots that are slightly off do report better data. If I was really going to use it for that kind of swing improvement, I'd 1) do lots of testing to make sure the clips are in the optimal spot by taking it to the range; 2) draw a line on the mat perpendicular to the ball path so you can know that the club face is perfectly square at address. One thing in its favor in this regard is that it's measuring the club, not the ball. So, as I said, I do think it's pretty good at detecting swing path and club face, provided you've got it perfectly square at address. I suppose the ideal is R-motion combined with SkyTrak. One measures the club, the other the ball.

[jdoorny]

Thanks for the responses. Lots of good subjective feedback like yours out there which is much appreciated.

I tried reaching them directly to asked what the tolerances on their measurements were. I got the standard "highly accurate but less accurate than the really expensive systems"

Still hoping someone can quantify the accuracy of what it measures (club data only)

eg: R-motion is usually within ______° of what the trackman lists for swing path and face angle. If that is five degree's, i'd use it for entertainment only. If it's half a degree, it would be a super useful practice tool.

[jdoorny]

Someone translate?

Searched YouTube and here is a video showing someone comparing rmotion to a gc2 at the 12 minute mark... Unfortunately I only speak English

https://youtu.be/WFcGN-LTZYw

[StormGolf73]

I dont' think you could even compare a GC2 and rmotion...much less a SkyTrak with a GC2. I was at Golf Galaxy and was talking with one of the pros there and we were talking about sims. He said the hitting bays they had GC2's and the full simulator was something else. The simulator was reading actual club head speed and the GC2's were not. Each system has it's advantages and disadvantages I guess.

I've only had the rmotion for a week now. I'm loving it. I'm a very low handicap player. I will say it's consistent for the most part but not completely accurate if that makes sense. As noted it uses a calibration technique that requires you the user to line up square and swing back to that point square. For a higher handicap player that may be difficult. I've seen people set up with their club wide open and hit great draws (how, because at impact they have closed the face slightly. This I'm afraid in rmotion would be a dreadful hook maybe 6" off the ground. As it would see that the difference in the two postions probably de-lofted the club so much etc...

I'm happy with mine. I can swing a fade or a slice, hit it straight and do some chipping. For the price you can't go wrong. If you have the money there are certainly better options. Do you see your local pro in his/her hitting bay for lessons using an rmotion? At min they use GC2 or better typically. (in my area)

Good luck and have fun!

[jdoorny]

Thanks. Probably a good test of the sim world to see if I would actually use it, before investing in a full setup. I just want a good way to practice for half an hour rather than having to drive to the range.

[StormGolf73]

Rmotion would be perfect for that I think. It let's you swing your clubs..get decent feedback and have fun for a very reasonable price. If you enjoy it and want more you can move onto those systems from there. I'm loving mine and did not want/couldn't invest in a multi thousand dollar setup. So this was perfect for me.

[Terrible_Golfer]

I'm interested in using the R-motion to improve my game.

I understand the limitations of predicting ball flight using only club data. That topic is covered thoroughly in other threads.

My question is: How accurate is the R-motion measurement of face angle and swing path?

If it can measure those with relative certainty, then it would be a valid practice tool, even if it doesn't create a perfect simulation. Everything (including their website) just says 'Accurate measurement'. Are we talking accurately within +-2 degrees, or accurate within +-0.002 degrees? and does that accuracy depend on sensor placement or other variables?

Can Rapsodo provide technical specs, or someone with multiple launch monitors run some testing?

I will say that R-Motion has definitely improved my game, at the very least by allowing me to hit as many balls at home as I want to, rather than spending too much money on buckets of balls at a range. I've enjoyed it so much that I actually sprained my Rhomboid muscle in my back/shoulder; something I didn't even know existed. But, back to technicalities, I know for a fact that it has improved my game. By getting instant feedback on club angle, path, and club head speed, I could then start making some adjustments to my swing and see instant feedback on those adjustments. I would watch some golf instruction videos on you-tube to fix what I was seeing wrong in my swing, and then go apply that immediately. I feel that it's very accurate, just from my ability to go from being a known slicer to now having a straight, if not a slight draw on my ball flight. One thing I did have to change in my swing, though. was to speed up my takeaway/backswing a little. I used to like having a very slow take away, but I noticed that this was causing problems with R-motion registering my swing. I also have found that this is the problem with the really short chip shots people are having. You have to still take away a little quicker and maybe cock your wrists more than you'd like, but then slow down on your actual forward swing to not chip too far. That helps the game pick-up those short distance chips near green.

[shank12u]

I didn't read some of the long answers the other guys gave so forgive me if I repeat them accidentally. I have Rmotion integrated with SkyTrak and TGC...and even if it isn't the most accurate tool it at the very least seems to be consistent. If I make a draw swing to a severe hook on purpose it shows my In to Out numbers consistent with what I would expect...and same goes with coming over the top for a fade or slice it shows my Out to In numbers. So for the price mid to high handicappers can't go wrong for decent club data to start getting good ideas of what your club is doing.

[jdoorny]

shank12u thanks. Just trying to determine if it's is a helpful practice tool or just a fun game, so responses like yours help a lot. Did you get r-motion or skytrak first? Would you do it differently next time?

[hotshot22]

So I setup open to target with my face typicslly, to encourage a push draw. Therefore my face is not always perfectly square to target. This would be a huge issue for r-motion accuracy?

[calebm1001]

From what I'm reading above, it sounds like it...