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L and S wedge often long often with to much side spin.

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  • L and S wedge often long often with to much side spin.

    It seems more recently, when I hit a L or S wedge I often get distances that are 5 to 15 yards to long. This happens mostly with cut shots. The side spin is sometimes way to much and which results in unrealistic bend. If I choose G or P wedge and hit a L or S wedge the distances and spins are more consistent and realistic. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling the interface and redoing the setting, but it is still happening. Has anyone else seen this? If so, is there a solution for this? Do I have a setting wrong?

  • #16
    Hmmm, very interesting.
    The only setting I have changed is the drag for wedges and that's because the carry distances are a bit long. I have increased the drag 4 to 1 percent for L to P wedge respectively.
    So, club speed measurements do not include modifications due to swing path and attack angle?


    • #17
      You could possibly increase speed readings with excessive shaft lean as it could trigger sensors earlier but speeds would be higher and not lower as you report.


      • #18
        I do have more forward shaft lean than is optimal, although not that dissimilar to PGA pros. This tends to be good in the wind and creates more backspin. Although, I have to keep that under control in some conditions.

        Well I found an issue with my setup. On startup the vertical and horizontal cameras sometimes display a dual image. It's a bit strange in that the second half of the image is displayed first and the first half second. Not normally and issue since I check the cameras setup every time before I start. The horizontal camera has become more unstable and this appears to be causing misread issues of various sorts during play after it has been initially setup. The vertical camera does not seem to be doing this once initially set. It's strange in that the horizontal camera may display 1/8 to 3/4 of the second half of the image first and the rest of the first half second. I'm not sure if this is a camera, software or hardware/USB issue.

        Once again, do club speed measurements include modifications due to swing path and attack angle?


        • #19
          Stonebattle You may already know all of this, but I'll put it here anyway. I have the older version cameras and need to set the horizontal camera before each session, because the frame rate is too high. Optimal for me (and I believe what Jamie recommends) is 40. For it to adjust to 40, under camera devices, I set it at around 38, click apply, then click ok, then hit the preview tab on the horizontal camera page.

          Sometimes before I hit preview I will have the double/sideways image that you are talking about, but it goes away once I hit preview because I believe that refreshes the settings I just made in camera devices to the h-cam. I always double check that the frame rate is at around 40 after it refreshes then cancel out of everything and put the software in the tray. I rarely/never have to adjust the V-cam.
          Last edited by DejaVu; 03-28-2021, 08:10 PM.


          • Stonebattle
            Stonebattle commented
            Editing a comment
            DejaVu: Thanks for the info. I just realized this was happening. Not sure why or even how this could/would happen.
            My V cam and H cam needs the FPS reset each time, although the H cam gets farther off each time.

            So, do you leave the H cam image up all the time to make sure there is no double image?

        • #20
          I can only remember having to adjust the v cam one time. The h cam is every time I launched the software. Jamie knows exactly what causes this (I forget) but apparently the newer cameras never need adjusted.

          When I first go into camera devices the h cam is usually at 57ish fps with the shutter around 17. I set the fps to 38 and slide the shutter up as close to 20 as i can.. (optimal settings for my ball streak here). Once I click preview, and make sure the settings are good under camera devices, I close all tabs and leave the software in the tray....without leaving the h cam image up.

          Something is wrong with my "windows" key on my pc, so once I launch TGC 2019, and say have a misread or something, there is no way for me to minimize TGC to look at anything else on my pc without exiting TGC.

          I don't have a lot of bad reads, but they do occasionally do happen. I have so much ambient lighting on that I'm surprised it reads anything at all sometimes.

          Have you left your cam images up during play and do they ever change, or are they only messed up when you first launch the Protee software? I would be curious to see if your settings, in the camera devices tab, change as your images do. Every time I push the preview tab, it will stabilized the image, but also changes the fps and I always check those after the image has stabilized.

          When was the last time you have unplugged/replugged your cam usb cables...and if you have extension cables are they active extension cables? I have active 2.0 usb extension cables on both of mine. My v cam wasn't working good after I hadn't used the system in awhile. Awesome Jamie told me to make sure it didn't have a cold/dry connection. Following his advice, I crawled 25' in a 2' space, unplugged it, blew in it, replugged it and life was good again.
          Last edited by DejaVu; 03-28-2021, 09:49 PM.


          • Stonebattle
            Stonebattle commented
            Editing a comment
            Your experiences are similar to mine, except my V cam also changes FPS each time I restart, and you set up in a similar fashion. I normally leave the interface on the first page or place it in the tray. I have never left the camera images up. I look to see what they look like if there is a misread. I have the H cam on an active extension cable with the USB ports set on all the time. To stabilize the image I click Camera stream instead of Preview. I think the FPS does not change when I do it this way. I restart the computer each time before I start play. Still, a lot of misreads. I would now say these are do to the H cam double image issue. I'm beginning to think I may have a computer hardware issue. I just tried the unplug, clean the contacts and replug camera idea. I hope it helps. Thanks for the input.

          • PROTEE UK
            PROTEE UK commented
            Editing a comment
            The issue here if cans are split screen is power related. Either they are going to sleep, which if you have to preview to make them run reboots them. Going through camera device doesnt really do anything unless making changes.
            Another power issue can arise if both cameras are on the same usb card so make sure one is plugged in the front of pc and one in the back of the pc.

            The other power issue could be cable related but unlikely as they recover when you click preview.

            If you want me to look at the pc settings and make sure nothing there is sending them to sleep then I will do.

            The way forward long term would be to consider the new cameras.

            The point greys havnt been used for 4 years now and some of the features for ball detection in the newer interfaces are for the new cameras and dont apply with the old ones

        • #21
          If the cameras go split screen then it's a power issue or they are going to sleep.
          this can be fixed by making sure one camera is plugged in the front of the oc and one in the back.
          In device manager on the pc, the usbs can also be turned off from going to sleep.
          you must make sure the oc is set in high power setting otherwise windows updates can reset them to match the power plan.

          The old point grey cameras can have their frame rates saved in the fly cap software and each camera saved to a channel.

          They can however change by a frame if the preview button is pressed. This does not need to be done unless making changes to any fps settings.

          The new type cameras store their own settings and never change FPS and more stable.

          The hcam will be getting ahead in fps over the vcam as the vcam is basically frozen when its split screen

          This will then mean that it isnt running correctly and the system will then use fall hack values which could have an effect on distances.

          If there is excessive shaft lean then it could trigger sensors earlier as the shaft could trigger sensors a little earlier which would increase the club speed but not too much unless it is excessive.

          You cant leave interface up on screen when running software.

          As Dejavu also mentioned if out in cold areas like a garage, unless you wrap the joints on extension cables you could get a dry joint but unconnecting and connecting again usually resolves that.

          The cameras were changed in 2017, my suggestion would be to upgrade them as they are way more stable than the older point grey cams.

          Some have tried to mix cameras type. This should not be done as it can and will cause issues.
          Hcam and vcam must be the same


          • #22
            I would definitely recommend having Jamie take a quick peek under the hood. Something else I didn't mention, is that I am running my cameras through a powered usb hub. It isn't recommend to do so, but if it is power related I'm wondering what would happen if you tried 2 seperate powered usb hubs with only 1 camera plugged into each hub. I am probably lucky, but I have both cameras, the sensor mat, and a wireless mouse/keyboard all running good through a powered usb hub and going to just one usb port on my pc.


            • PROTEE UK
              PROTEE UK commented
              Editing a comment
              Powered hubs are absolutely fine.
              If it is something that is happening more recently then it could be pc set up as windows can change certain settings back to default if the pc is not run in a high power plan.
              It tends to change certain settings back in line with the chose plan after certain updates

          • #23
            I've been doing some home improvement stuff so have been off line for a few days.

            Protee UK:
            Responding to your 3/28 message.
            The Vcam only goes split screen on startup and not every time. It does not go split screen during play. The Hcam is similar during startup as the Vcam, but goes split screen during play. The USB ports are not shutting down. They are set to run all the time and the computer is set to high power/performance. I've switched usb ports from one camera to the other without a difference, gone from usb 3.0 to usb 2.1 on both with no difference. I've checked out the active usb cable, used it on another camera and it worked well. One camera in a back usb and one in a front usb makes no difference. I'm running out of ideas except for a defective Hcam. I have to restart the interface to get the Hcam double image back to normal. Trying to hit preview or camera stream does not work. It seems to change back to normal, but once a ball is hit the double image returns.

            I've saved the frame rate of each camera in the software, but they both still change. I almost never click preview.

            A high speed video of may swing suggests excessive shaft lean is not the issue.

            I set both cameras fps before each session, close and restart the interface and check the setting again. Not sure about this fallback value issue, but it seems unlikely to be causing this issue, but will be glad to listen.

            I've tried leaving the first page of the interface up and in the tray. I can't see much difference at all.

            I'm inside, so a cold area is not the issue.

            I tried to clean the USB contacts and I thought it was better, but then the misreads and the double image returns. Good thoughts though.

            Misreads due to the Hcam have been getting worse over time. I don't think the excessive side spin is related to the Hcam issue.


            • #24
              ^^^ still eating popcorn, watching, and learning from this thread. What's your ambient lighting like...any neon signs or leds in the room? Sometimes I need to shut stuff like that off if I have serious players over. Also, have you taken a can of air/dust cleaner and carefully vacuumed it out lately? <<<I've gotten misreads from debris many times...all fault of my own. Smh


              • #25
                Splice screen cameras is a power issue and not camera.
                split screen is when the cameras cant boot properly.
                usually clicking preview reboots and clears them.
                When housing software the interface must be in tray mode otherwise it wont communicate properly.

                Point grey cameras havnt been used for over 4 years now.

                It would be good advice to use the new camera type especially with new interface versions being geared more to working with more upto date hardware.

                If you want to set up a remote support session to identify what's going on that would be better to he honest.

                The repeater cables used should be the ones supplied or replaced with the ones the system comes with now if needed.

                Side spin being high could even relate to an issue sensor in the mat but without opening a support ticket we would never know


                • #26
                  Protee UK:
                  So, you don't want to answer my question "does club speed measurements include modifications due to swing path and attack angle"? You write club speed is a direct measurement. So, does that mean the front row of sensors pick up the first shadow created by the club head or possibly the shaft and the second row of sensors pick the shadow made by either the club head or shaft and that timing results in a direct club head speed measurement?

                  I said shaft lean is not the issue. Well not so fast. Shaft lean is not an issue with my normal wedge swing, but if I try to hit a punch L or S wedge, which I do quite a bit on course, shaft lean is an issue. The shaft does appear to beat the ball to the front sensor, not all the time, but its close.

                  Protee used these cameras for years, they have to be better than this.
                  I'll have to get with you later on new cameras.

                  Well I decided to do a deep clean of the USB ports for the cameras. Got out a thin wire with cloth and alcohol. I didn't get much dirt, but after the cleaning I had the first session, 50 plus swings, in months without a Hcam double image issue. I have my fingers crossed.


                  • #27
                    I already did answer. The front row is for ball speed not clubspeed.
                    impact and back row deal with clubsoeed into the ball.
                    With excessive lean the impact two could be triggered slightly earlier.
                    You could use the clubspeed slider adjustment to offset for the if you have an idea of avg.
                    those cams were used for a number of years but the issue is power related.
                    There is not enough power to them to boot on start.

                    If you want remote support to take a look please email for a support ticket and we can take a look to confirm it.

                    Have you tried using a powered usb hub and putting one camera in that? That way it's not using power from a usb on the pc.


                    • #28
                      I don't want remote support at this time, I'm trying to work this out myself and should be able to. These issue should not take remote support to fix each time.

                      I have tried one powered usb hub and did not see much difference. I'm thinking new cameras would be the better choice.

                      Let me ask my question in a different way. For a swing that is well inside to out, say 10 degrees, the club head will travel more distance than one that is straight. So, does the unit take in consideration the extra distance traveled or is it just timing from one sensor row to the next?


                      • #29
                        What you have to understand here is that without seeing the set up it is hard to find a suitable fix for you.
                        I've offered remote support to have a good look at the whole set up for you and check things over.
                        If you want to work it our yourself, that is if course your choice but with out a full.understanding of the how things work it could lead to other issues and it becomes harder to sometimes undo what has been done.

                        The sensor mat measures the speeds regardless of direction and that is why the back row is almost the full width of the mat. It deals with path but there are timers that run also to determine where things crossed which starts and stops the time to get the speed.

                        It is quicker and easier to log in and take a look rather than make assumptions without seeing the set up.

                        It also creates confusion for others reading things like this as it can then encourage then to potentially experiment and try multiple things getting themselves in knots.

                        It's better to say here is an issue and this was the fix rather than guess on here.

                        This is why we have support.

                        Please, if you need some help working this out then submit a ticket so at least support knows what they are looking at and dealing with.

                        Kind Regards



                        • #30
                          You wouldn't need support to fix the same issue each time if the issue was fixed correctly on full.
                          split screen camera images is usually power related.
                          Depending how old your pc is it could be missing certain windows files that also run programs and softwares correctly.

                          It seems that there is not enough power to boot the cameras on start up.