Unofficial opinion on 5% alteration

[Wizard of Coz]

Please vote yes or no on should we be allowed 5% alteration to ball carry/ spin etc.....in tournaments.
this is unofficial and wizard is just curious what people think. Just your opinion and i'm totally cool with voting either way. No hate here. Wiz loves almost everybody. 99.9% love he is far from perfect 0.1% anyway. Lol

Wiz vote
No

#1 reason he uses it is cause he competes against it

[Thundergolf]

New interface should also control green speed, stimp, etc... In tournaments we should all be playing the same settings. Just my opinion

[Jwheels9876]

Let's not get crazy here. Put this on the docket for 2022

[Tommyseb]

Exactly this, should all be playing same course conditions

[Thundergolf]

Mthunt u could play practice round to gather green speed

[triplebogeysrbetter]

[Wizard of Coz]

Is that slugger white or mthunt? One in the same?

[triplebogeysrbetter]

All the same person.


Slugger, Mike, and Max

[Marc Andre]

Cant wait to see the change and it have ZERO impact on the leaderboards. My bet is the same players at the top with 5% boost will be the same players at the top without it.

...........

[Marc Andre]

No Boost.... Pretty sad that guys have to boost to make their ego's larger......

............🧚🤸🧝

[Iquinn4]

Funny that your streams where you've selectively boosted are gone. Will this shot data suffice? Your 4i ball speed looks a bit off...

[Wizard of Coz]

Dude c'mon you showed me a 50 yard shot that had hybrid on it so it would have been boosted on accident. There is zero reason to boost my 58* wedge from 50 yards. You have wayyyyyy too much time on your hands.

Thanks for all the 👎down on my youtube videos.

[Iquinn4]

So you comment on one of the shots in your recording. Ok I might be willing to write that off as a mistaken club selection. Thanks for confirming the rest though.

Too much time on my hands? The guy that records videos reviewing keyboards while smashing them with a hammer? I don’t know about that. The shot recording file took 10 minutes to compile.

[Marc Andre]

🤸🤸🤸👀🍿.......

[shwag33]

Do people actually take the time to change clubs? Even if you have club selection on, I never actually change the club unless i'm putting from the fringe. You have to take clubs in recorded data with a grain of salt.

I'm always up for some good drama, but unless there's something i'm missing I don't see how any of that data indicates selective boosting.

[orangeman]

I don't hit my clubs the TGC distance so I change clubs from the TGC default so the distance matches up with the club I actually want to hit.Then I can use Q to pick aim spot. I can't imagine I'm the only one who does this.

[Iquinn4]

That’s totally fine when you don’t have the boosted club selected. The example would be if you had 200 yards from the fairway and say that’s your 4i club. You then change your club to your boosted driver to make the distance play 185 so you can hit 6i. That’s what we are calling out. That is what wiz does no matter how much he denies. Look at the shot data I provided. He doesn’t hit 4i 160 yard carry onto the green with 2-5 yards prox. That’s where he’s a liar

[Iquinn4]

I don’t bother to change clubs because I don’t have boost on. It doesn’t matter if you don’t boost. It absolutely does when you boost.

[Sting Ray]

I vote No, but how are you able to confirm if a person is or isn’t using boost?

[Wizard of Coz]

I just tell you what i'm using. Mthunt can figure it out. I guess it takes many shots cause of elevation changes in game. ??

[gene438]

When a guy is hitting 3 wood into greens from 280 to 300 yds out on part 5's.......he might be boosting....lol

[jcottfrommn]

ST user here and I would vote to keep the boost. 5% doesn't seem excessive, for me personally I bought it to try and improve my outside game and feel that the 5% matches IRL distances. That said, I don't REALLY care. I have no shot of cracking the top 40 of any tournament setup.

[Wizard of Coz]

Thanks for sticking your neck out. It's dangerous doing that. Ive played them all. My low round with 5% on boosted woods 59 my low round with zero boost 60. Really just one made putt different.

I think everybody can figure out one of my 0.1%er

[shwag33]

You're a person boost was meant for, unfortunately we can't have nice things haha. I believe the option would be to eliminate boost just in tournament play, not all together. So if you're playing with local people or by yourself you could still use it.

[triplebogeysrbetter]

Thank you for telling you're story. Now you shall be punish if you ever past the leaders. You will be labeled a cheat even though it's allowed. Amazing how that works.

[Thundergolf]

Wizard of Coz why do u just try new rules in your society? Get official feedback instead of trying to gather votes?

[Wizard of Coz]

I can ban people but i'm not sure if I started doing that protee might ban Noonan from wgr. I kind of like setting up Noonan.

[Thundergolf]

Why would they ban Noonan? That doesn't make sense

[Wizard of Coz]

Let's say I ban tblcptn cause he tees the ballup in the fairway. Then tblcptn emails protee everyday giving them thumbs down and such. Protee could get rid of Noonan too much HA. Im sure he is already emailing them to abolish Noonan.
Im just going to set up schedule and enjoy the ride for for however long Protee allows me to.

[Shipwreck34]

As a new person here, and therefore an outsider, it seems like the main problem is the perception of an advantage. Have we had senior level experienced people with hands on time with all the different hardware determine what the differences are? All things being unequal the most important thing would be to have all things be equal on the other side of the =, right? No matter how we got there.

In my very limited experience I have already been able to determine two things:

1. My club head speed difference with a Driver between the GC2 and ST is approximately 8-10 MPH, and 5-7 across my Irons. (ST being the lower speed)
2. My ST distances in TGC2019 are never the same as my IRL distances (closer in just the ST app), whether I use 5% boost or not. I can confirm this with the shot tracking app I use on the course IRL.

I would also add that I'm not good enough to care anyway, and if people feel they can gain an advantage by doing anything, they will. Period. Up to and including crying foul that someone else has an advantage, real or perceived, when in reality the other people started out at a disadvantage.

In my life's experience it's usually the ones who cry the loudest that are the most guilty. You're never going to stop them. Hell, a legitimate previous response was essentially "Get more money and buy better stuff. You being poor isn't my problem." Spirit of fair competition indeed...

Once again, as a new person, I humbly offer an opinion... I believe you all have two options:

1. Restrict the Tourneys by hardware
2. STFU and GOLF.

As for me, I'm not sure I want to get involved if this is the way things operate. My apologies in advance for even bothering to throw my hat in the ring. Flame away.

[Jwheels9876]

I wouldn't have an issue with skytrak using the boost, Like you said, it's the others that take advantage of rules not meant for them just because they can that ruin everything. I have had the skytrak, the GC2, and now Uneekor so I know the imperfections they all have. Skytrak is a good machine but the putting and inside 100 yards seems terrible at times when i had it. I had just gotten back into golf after 10 years off so I have no clue if it was slower than GC2, I don't even remember.

Uneekor has no option for boost adjustments at all and I don't need it, but neither do people with GC2. So either they need to be banned from using it or everyone should IMO

[Bender96]

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying Shipwreck34 unfortunately Jwheels9876 is right. Even if your LMs ball speed is slow and you need that 5% the others with a perfectly fine device are using the 5% as well so unfortunately you lose those 15yds or so that you should gain and are back to being at a disadvantage. I own the ST and my ball speeds seem to be decent for the most part with it but the putting is horrible. I don’t think ST is very consistent between LMs meaning not all ST should get the 5% boost. I feel for the people
Who own the ST and actually use the boost for its intended result but losing that 5% you aren’t losing anything because the majority that are abusing it are also losing the 5%

[EskimoQuinn]

Shipwreck - what app / system are you using to track your outdoor ball speed / carry to compare against the ST/GC2?

[EG$]

What is the general consensus on the limitations between the different vendor offerings? Based on my time reading posts in each vendor's subsection, Uneekor is solid for both ball speed and HLA, GC2 is solid for ball speed but lacking accuracy for putting HLA, and SkyTrak is solid for ball speed with the exception of driver (anything around 150mph+) and lacking accuracy for putting HLA.

I understand there might be an update or some backend visibility that allows the commish to view the config file settings. A leaderboard CSV export that included the device type and config file settings (if applicable) would be easily sort-able, and violators of rules created by the general consensus would get DQ'd.

I could live without boost (I only use it for driver), but it would sting because I know I have more than a 4mph discrepancy between my driver and 4 wood. However, as a Skytrak owner I wouldn't be able to compete at all without the straight putting patch. Putting is still difficult using the patch. Its hard enough for Skytrak players to compete if they're slightly off and leaving themselves the short-sided impossible 5 yard chip. Take it all away, and I don't think you'd see a single Skytrak user near the top unless they're having a stretch of unbelievable ball striking rounds.

I'd vote 'Yes' if a consensus could be reached, but 'No' without a consensus.

[Shipwreck34]

Totally agree with not actually needing the 5%, at least for me personally, as I can usually put it out decent enough to not hamper the second shot. It still doesn't match up with IRL, but as I just mentioned not the end of the world for me personally.

Not having the Straight Putt though? The slippery slope we're headed to? Forget it. I've tried and tried to find the right place to put the ball so it goes where I'm actually putting without it on a decent enough average, but to no avail. If they took that away I'd be a Rewind Factory, and that isn't fun for anyone. Then they'd take away Rewinds, which are already abused so I understand. It's bad enough that I have to make 2-3 putts per go anyway just to get it to read without dealing with all of that.

[EG$]

Agreed Shipwreck. Not to go too off track here, but if its taking you 2 to 3 attempts to read a putt, start the ball about 2 inches behind the dot and roll the ball over the dot. That should solve that problem for you.

The combination of no boost, no straight putt, and leaving the green softness as is would make it impossible to score. If it comes to that, I will gracefully bow out because I'd be too frustrated to continue.

All I want to do is try to get the game as close as I can get it to the real thing. The config file helps me close the gap. Golf is/was a game of integrity. I guess sim golf should be considered a completely separate entity.

[Shipwreck34]

I don't expect random strangers to not cheat... My best friend was cheating me blind when we played last weekend! I just smile and nod because, well, it's not worth it.

Knowing that rando's have zero compunction about going for the throat, or suffering from any subsequent guilt with their actions either, it would be nice to have a solid baseline of capabilities level set for everyone. This is usually where an agreed upon group of senior experienced people make a determination based on their experience weighted with the prejudices of the group, and everyone follows those rules. If the agreed upon rule set is not satisfactory for whatever person, go make your own group. I kinda thought that's the way democracy worked? Am I missing something on why we're not doing that? Or am I missing that we are, and this very thread is gauging the water temp for those people running the show? I hope it's the latter.

As for the putting thing... I've actually worked up a "Ball Placement Guide" for us SkyTrak users based on all the input I've read on these forums, including for putting. My compiled data became my version 1, my testing so far is guiding version 2. I want to get more personal data and experience before putting it out to the forum for community testing, comments, and refinement. If you're interested in seeing the draft, PM me.

[wbond]

For item 1 you need to disregard this, skytrak does not measure clubhead speed so it's irrelevant.

For item 2, have you taken your skytrak outside to actually confirm it's reading short? If not, it's very easy to confirm, laser a target and hit a few balls you don't mind donating to a range. It's easy to tell if you carried a sign or not to see if it's reading correctly. An app that measures outside distances has no bearing on whether or not you swing the same way inside your own home and unless you're going to the plug mark, you have no idea how far it actually carried vs total distance. Then you have ground conditions to deal with.

Yes many people on here give the appearance of relishing the fact that they have better hardware for their sim and want those with less to be disadvantaged. Sad but true and you've picked up on it quite well. There is no spirit of fair competition, they want an advantage. Hell, they've resorted to playing in extra q shool events just to get points. As the saying goes, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Different hardware devices do not act the same and have verifiable deficiencies. If you want to be all inclusive then you need some leeway to accommodate; such as straight putting patch and 5% boost. Personally i don't believe the 5% is going to make any difference, however if they also go down the path of the no straight putting patch there will be problems. There will be people who hit a straight putt and get screwed by a bogus reading.

Your sentence about not wanting to get involved is probably being considered by others as well.

1. My club head speed difference with a Driver between the GC2 and ST is approximately 8-10 MPH, and 5-7 across my Irons. (ST being the lower speed)
2. My ST distances in TGC2019 are never the same as my IRL distances (closer in just the ST app), whether I use 5% boost or not. I can confirm this with the shot tracking app I use on the course IRL.

I would also add that I'm not good enough to care anyway, and if people feel they can gain an advantage by doing anything, they will. Period. Up to and including crying foul that someone else has an advantage, real or perceived, when in reality the other people started out at a disadvantage.

In my life's experience it's usually the ones who cry the loudest that are the most guilty. You're never going to stop them. Hell, a legitimate previous response was essentially "Get more money and buy better stuff. You being poor isn't my problem." Spirit of fair competition indeed...

Once again, as a new person, I humbly offer an opinion... I believe you all have two options:

1. Restrict the Tourneys by hardware
2. STFU and GOLF.

As for me, I'm not sure I want to get involved if this is the way things operate. My apologies in advance for even bothering to throw my hat in the ring. Flame away.

[V8burble]

[Edited to say I've Just seen the response above - I missed the "club" bit.]

8-10mph with driver is very high, even for SkyTrak differences. 5-7mph across irons surprises me even more, my experience has been that irons are very very similar in BS to GC2.
Not saying you are lying - just suggesting you might need to check your SkyTrak.

1. My club head speed difference with a Driver between the GC2 and ST is approximately 8-10 MPH, and 5-7 across my Irons. (ST being the lower speed)
2. My ST distances in TGC2019 are never the same as my IRL distances (closer in just the ST app), whether I use 5% boost or not. I can confirm this with the shot tracking app I use on the course IRL.

[Shipwreck34]

Without another ST to check against, it's very difficult to know if my readings are typical, or atypical. From the sounds of it, the latter.

All I know is I have trouble getting Driver club head speed above 98 MPH with my ST (it almost never happens), and I can go to Dick's and use their GC2 and average 108-111 all day long. My experience in the same situation was where I got my Irons CHS from too.

Wait... is Dick's boosting the GC2 to sell clubs?! LOL That's actually a real possibility, if it is in fact possible. Guess I hadn't considered that.

[Shipwreck34]

For item 1 you need to disregard this, skytrak does not measure clubhead speed so it's irrelevant.

I was unaware of that. I'm taking that to mean the club head MPH is calculated then, not actual? How does it do that?

For item 2, have you taken your skytrak outside to actually confirm it's reading short? If not, it's very easy to confirm, laser a target and hit a few balls you don't mind donating to a range. It's easy to tell if you carried a sign or not to see if it's reading correctly. An app that measures outside distances has no bearing on whether or not you swing the same way inside your own home and unless you're going to the plug mark, you have no idea how far it actually carried vs total distance. Then you have ground conditions to deal with.

All very true, and I was generalizing my averages for brevity. There are so many variables. I have not yet had good weather and an open range since I bought my ST to be able to test it. I am very interested to see the results when the time comes. After all, I'm a Test Engineer.

If you want to be all inclusive then you need some leeway to accommodate; such as straight putting patch and 5% boost. Personally i don't believe the 5% is going to make any difference, however if they also go down the path of the no straight putting patch there will be problems.

Totally agree.

[Thundergolf]

Neither gc2 or skytrak measure the club head unless u have HMT. They both use a pre determine smash factor. Ball data is only thing measured.

[Shipwreck34]

From the looks of post counts, most of us don't have a GC2, let alone the HMT peripheral. So at the end of the day, the "boost" is nothing more than a calculation correction due to ST underestimating club head speed?

Or... are they BOTH grabbing the Ball speed correctly, calculating distance off of that, making distances correct for both? Therefore making "boost" exactly that?

My IRL numbers don't agree, but I differ to the science, if it's available.

[wbond]

Skytrak measures ball speed. That is good. Sometimes there are skytraks that struggle with ball speed when it gets north of 150mph. Skytrak has acknowledged this, but it doesn't seem that everyone of them has this issue, so that part is somewhat strange.

[Thundergolf]

Pretty sure gc2 smash factor is 1.38. if u have 138mph ball speed your club speed will display 100mph. Yes Dick's can boost ball speed within there software

[Thundergolf]

Just unplug the USB cable the raw numbers will be on the display

[triplebogeysrbetter]

Fitters trick with either the foresight software or even within Ping (I believe) overlapping software. They can increase your distance or knock down some spin. Then it looks like these clubs are a perfect fit for you.

[Stingreye]

The gc2 at golf galaxy near me is always boosted. It’s the only place I can hit 300 yard 5woods. Unplug the usb cable and get the real number.