Need help with adjusting skytrak!! All shots drawing!!

[Captain Z]

Hello all,
I purchased a new Skytrak system a couple months ago and finally had a chance to set it up over the past couple of weeks in my garage. My history is I am a very avid golfer with a 2.9 handicap and typically do around 70 rounds in our short 5 month golf season. I purchased the Skytrak to try and fine tune my swing and work towards a scratch over the winter. I was super excited to start my winter golf swing tweaking but have been very disappointed so far to the point where I question whether I need a $3K device that is simply aggravating.
I have a good thick golf mat and I am hitting all shots off of tees. My driver swing speed is around 108mph and average distance on skytak showing as 275 yards average (seems low but this is not my issue). The problem is that no matter what I try all of my shots (irons and woods) show a severe draw (yes a draw not a pull). I rarely draw the ball on the golf course unless I am trying really hard to. Typically I hit the ball very straight in real life and sometimes have a slight fade.

I have read the forums and followed suggestions:
- Aligned skytrak with alignment sticks to target
- Skytrak is perfectly level
- Used a 3 foot level to ensure the device is level with the hitting surface
- Tried various red dot positions
- Tried different balls and marking balls
- I have plenty of room so I don't think I am subconsciously adjusted my swing indoors?
- It is already snowing where I live so taking the unit to a range to compare is not feasible

Anyway if any of you have experienced this and have some other suggestions I would love to hear them. Otherwise this unit will likely be up for sale soon
Thanks in advance

[Wizard of Coz]

Hit a few cuts with your irons and see if it shows a draw. I never really got surprised by shot shape with skytrak or gc2. I would assume you can hit a shot and know where it's going based on how the strike felt.

[Morini]

Would you mind posting some ball data? Particularly spin axis.

I see three possibilities:

1. Setup error (ST canted). You mention that it is flat, so unlikely.
2. Faulty skytrak. Unlikely, but possible.
3. Indoor swing. You mention that you have lots of room, but still definitely possible. If you look through some old threads you will find several ST owners who swear that indoor swing is not an issue, before eventually realizing that it was.

Troubleshooting suggestion: Hit some chips. It would be very unlikely that the spin axis would be far from zero on a chip, so if you see high spin axis it is a setup or hardware issue. If you don't, its indoor swing.

[Captain Z]

Thanks guys

Wizard yes I can hit a cut no problem and it shows as a cut. I think I have a pretty good feel for my swing but I'm certainly not a pro.
Morini I will definitely try some chips and monitor the spin axis and post the results this weekend.

My thought at the moment is that my mat is very plush and thick almost like a first/second cut of rough. When I wear cleats on it I am almost glued to the ground. I wonder if this is preventing my normal lower body and hip turn making it a more 'armsy' swing.

To be continued..

[GungHoGolf]

Would you mind posting some ball data? Particularly spin axis.

I see three possibilities:

1. Setup error (ST canted). You mention that it is flat, so unlikely.
2. Faulty skytrak. Unlikely, but possible.
3. Indoor swing. You mention that you have lots of room, but still definitely possible. If you look through some old threads you will find several ST owners who swear that indoor swing is not an issue, before eventually realizing that it was.

Troubleshooting suggestion: Hit some chips. It would be very unlikely that the spin axis would be far from zero on a chip, so if you see high spin axis it is a setup or hardware issue. If you don't, its indoor swing.

Good advice here. LOOK HARD AT #3 - so many guys don't believe it, until they actually get used to swinging indoors. Indoors can make your swing flatter (more draw biased). Also pay close attention to SkyTrak alignment. Don't use the laser dots for alignment... instead make sure that a straight chip (that hits the center line of the range) reads as straight for SkyTrak (adjust the unit as necessary until a straight chip reads straight). With driver and woods, use some powered foot spray on club face to make sure you're not hitting off the toe (gear effect adding draw spin).

ALSO: you can watch how your ball bounces off the screen or net to estimate side spin - for RH golfer, draw spin makes it bounce off to the right, cut spin makes it bounce off to the left, and no side spin bounces back straight down. And of course watch where it hits to determine horizontal launch angle. Just by watching how my ball hits the screen and bounces back, I can predict what ball flight SkyTrak will show a second later with surprising accuracy.

[pcascio]

I would check to make certain that the ST is perfectly parallel with the target line. If it's angled at all, it will have an effect on the shot shape.

[wbond]

This is not completely true. They have manufacturing tolerances and the skytrak could in fact need to be toed in or out slightly to read straight.

I would check to make certain that the ST is perfectly parallel with the target line. If it's angled at all, it will have an effect on the shot shape.

[trhuke]

Does a straight line, exactly parallel to the SkyTrak, through your red dot, hit the target on the screen in the middle? If your teeing spot is only a few inches off hitting the target dead center, at say 10 feet, that can turn into a lot extrapolated over a couple hundred yards.
I got a cheap laser carpenters level and snugged it up to my SkyTrak, shot the screen with it, measure from where the laser line originates to the red hitting dot. Then measure the same amount from the laser line on the screen to the projected center target.
Due to space limitations my red dot tee area lines up about 6" right of center on the screen so I have to adjust accordingly. You can offset in TGC but in the native SkyTrak app it doesn't work as well, it just skews the target line over.
Essentially, make sure your perception of what a "straight" shot is matches the SkyTrak's.

My $.02 worth.

[Captain Z]

This is all fantastic feedback and exactly what I was looking for. I plan to take everyone's suggestions here and try and figure this thing out over the weekend. I'll post back with my results.

Thanks again all !!

[FURY]

Hi Ho!

I am new to this Sim, indoor concept. The "Indoor swing" is worrisome. If the height of the sim site does not allow for a full swing driver and that is just not used,is there a swing that flattens out just...because? Is it then just an "enclosure flattened swing" irrespective of club impingement?

thank you very much

FURY

[trhuke]

It's psychological and I found that after a bit I got accustomed to it and went away.
No matter how long ago it has been, in the back of your head, you can still here your mother giving you hell for "doing that in the house!"

[Morini]

I would check to make certain that the ST is perfectly parallel with the target line. If it's angled at all, it will have an effect on the shot shape.

My understanding is that it does not affect the shot shape at all. It does affect the horizontal launch angle. If it is one degree off, the horizontal launch angle is one degree off. As others have mentioned, ST is not always internally aligned correctly, so the edge of the case perfectly parallel to target line does not necessarily equal perfect alignment. As gunghogolf suggests, chip to a string or similar, and adjust ST until straight chips read straight.

I do believe canting the ST will affect spin axis by corresponding amount. Anything more than a few degrees cant will be obvious to the eye, so this is unlikely to be the issue.

[Morini]

Actually come to think about it, I don't think canting will do anything, as it is the DIFFERENCES between the two images that is used to calculate spin axis. Canting affects both imagers equally. I presume that it is possible that the imagers are not physically mounted perfectly aligned to each other. Somebody from ST/Rhapsodo mentioned that a unit may need recalibration, so it is possible that units are software calibrated before shipping. Again, chipping should help determine that there is no internal bias in reading spin axis.

[Captain Z]

Ok I have some updated testing results after taking everyone's advice into consideration.

Day 1 Testing
I realigned the bullseye on my net with my mat so that my "perceived" straight shot would actually be right on the bullseye. I then threw some chips at the bullseye to perfectly align the skytrak to my "perceived" center (the bullseye). The chips read with little to no spin axis.
I felt like there was a marked improvement in ball flight after doing this. Still not 100% satisfied but definitely feels much better already.

Day 2 (Today)
Blasted a ton of drives and still not feeling like my normal real life ball flight is showing up on screen. Swings feel good and contact is good but ball flight is just not a familiar one to me. Again it's an improvement from before but still something seems off.
Until.........I realized that for whatever reason I was using a very strong grip (rotated to the right) which I don't normally do. After I adjusted my grip and made sure my stance and setup was normal my drives were straight as an arrow with zero spin axis and around 290 yards total which is pretty much bang on what I would say is a typical drive in real life. 4 drives in a row like this and then I had to quit....I was exhausted from continually blasting drives off so it was time for some beer.

I'm not sure what caused me to change my grip, but I have a suspicion that the whole sim setup in general just kind of messed with my normal way of swinging (maybe this is the indoor swing everyone refers to). My theory is that a golfer's subconscious will adapt the swing to fit the mold of the anticipated shot result. In my case I think the alignment and surroundings caused me to unknowingly want to bring the ball back from right to left....as a result I set up with a strong grip and a slightly closed stance causing the unnatural hook.

I'll do some more testing this week to see what happens......still not completely convinced I have this figured out but hopefully will soon.

Thanks all for the assistance much appreciated!!

[Morini]

I'm not sure what caused me to change my grip, but I have a suspicion that the whole sim setup in general just kind of messed with my normal way of swinging (maybe this is the indoor swing everyone refers to).

Yes, this. I think that when we talk about indoor swing we need to look beyond just ceiling height and wall width. It is very easy to subconsciously make changes in response to the how we perceive things when in an indoor sim environment.

Chipping is the easiest way to verify ST alignment and that spin axis is read properly. And once those potential problems have been eliminated ... it is time to look at user variables.

I am happy to hear that the ST seems to be reading your swing correctly.