GCQ Initial Impression/Early Review

[awisnia]

Very cool. Just lay down the stick and the cameras align to the same. Next gen stuff. thanks

[sorensen]

Can you please explain this feature a bit more? It has to be more that the line on the LCD display. Are those two lasers or lights helping in some way to visualize the target line?

check this https://youtu.be/UJD-0YVgjmA

[awisnia]

One of the best new features is the alignment stick. Anyone who has fiddled with GCS/HMT knows its easy to be off a few degrees which screws up your numbers. That is all but gone and ball flight is exactly where they should be feel wise and numbers wise since you are literally setting your target line. This is really great when playing on FSX courses.

Can you please explain this feature a bit more? It has to be more that the line on the LCD display. Are those two lasers or lights helping in some way to visualize the target line?

[awisnia]

I think he meant the two lights on top in the "target alignment mode" photo...lol

http://golfsimulatorforum.com/filedata/fetch?photoid=104049

[Dax]

Another important consideration that I forgot to mention above is ensuring that everything is level. Even being off by a little could lead to some inconsistent information.

[Dax]

RCosa, there has been a few instances here in comparisons between TM and GCQ and in those comparisons I often find it hard to understand if people are performing apples to apples comparisons. Reading your post above still causes me to question this and this all reminds me of the video that was floating around a few years ago when someone was trying to show that TMs data measurements were flawed and then TM rebutted those findings by coming out and stating how they measure.

As noted above TM measures club speed prior to impact (I have read a few posts here that mention it being after). Thus, if comparing club speed before and after impact there would be differences.

As for angle of attack, TM states that this is measured at the point of maximum compression and thus depending on where you are looking you will show different results. TM states that it's accuracy in this measurement is + or - 1 degree. There are also some other assumptions that TM makes when computing this level of accuracy. I would expect that TM has undergone extensive testing to prove this level of accuracy and also that they have supported it by comparing their measurements with sophisticated high speed cameras.

Please knowni am not saying either is right or wrong, but one would need to know how each unit is measuring each parameter in order to come up with an accurate comparison.

[RCorsa]

This was no "home brew" sep up but a very expensive recording system using front and rear view high definition cameras and high end software costing tens of thousands. This was not at my home but rather a very high end instruction studio where even lighting is controlled and timed so no flashing is seen or blurring of club /head etc. Think golf tec on steroids. The only thing we analyzed was the attack angles which is pretty accurate and you can clearly see positive angles of attacks with driver that the quad picked up but trackman showed near zero.

[sorensen]

Trackman Club speed

　

Instant prior to impact

•Center of club face

•Consider face rotation

Toe +7 MPH

Heel -7 MPH
Hope that everyone can read it :-) copy / paste

[FaultyClubs]

...However dealing with club data the quad is better hands down. Based on high speed video recording we did etc, etc.....

I doubt a home brew "high speed" video is the gold standard to verify the quad's accuracy. If anything it is the other way around so your logic sounds backwards to me.

As everyone knows what the face is doing accounts for 85% of the ball flight.

A lot of people think that...but the number varies SIGNIFICANTLY with club type and impact. Important to understand for anyone trying to assrss club data accuracy of these devices.

Lastly it's pretty clear that trackman records club speed at point of max compression which is why club head speed is low and with accurate ball speed you get crazy high smash factors...

Pretty clear?? Trackman explains how they measure this and it most definitely isn't at max compression.

There are a few issues around smash factors that people should understand given these new devices are becoming available so I'd recommend at least reading the trackman newsletters to understand the issues and then seeing how your favorite device handles them.

[A.West]

Professionals are constantly outside and living in nice weather, usually on a golf course. People on a golf simulator forum probably are not. Most of us playing in relatively small spaces in basements or garages. Thus indoor performance is pretty crucial. Especially indoor performance that can be calculated in a small space. Looks like GCQ and GC2 come in first and second place in that category. But spending this much money on a GCQ without the ability to play on a third party simulator is a kick in the teeth to this well-established home simulator user base. I'd order one as soon as I found that there was a way to play 3rd party simulators, or if I was convinced that their own online play offering was attractive and competitive.

[goatbarn]

The main downfall of doppler indoors is purely a limitation of the technology used and space restrictions of most indoor setups.

Spin axis cannot be measured (although it's really more like derived) with less than 30 yards of unobstructed flight...ie. can't happen indoors.

Spin measurement is obtained by reading the return signals bounced back from the metallic sticker as the ball spins. It needs at least 2 revolutions to obtain a spin rate. This rate is the total spin, not the backspin. So if there is less than 2 observed/measured return signals from the sticker, spin is guessed. This is why if you're a high speed/low spin player, you'll have trouble indoors.

Spin axis is estimated from spin loft/face to path numbers when used indoors. Normally, clubface is derived from the measured ball flight/collision model when used outdoors...since the radar can't see your club face. With that known, club face measurements are an estimate when used indoors. So for spin axis, you're using an estimated clubface number, combined with an estimated spin loft number, to produce ball curvature. You can start to see why you'll see some varied ball curvatures when using doppler radar indoors. It's just a downside of the technology.

It can still do club speed, ball speed, azimuth, club path, AOA, swing planes, total spin (if enough revs), and launch angle measurements very well when used indoors. The nature of how it obtains spin axis/club face is just not possible indoors.

[mbuck45]

Lol. Clearly a trackman troll. Indoors the trackman was giving abnormally high spin numbers when ball flight was the mandatory 16-17 feet into a screen. However when taken outdoors and hitting on he exact same hitting mat, the spin numbers went down to what I would have expected and trackman was spot on perfect. However, the quad was the same indoors and out with regards to spin. Thus indoors the quad was better hands down and outdoors they were the same with relation to ball data. However dealing with club data the quad is better hands down. Based on high speed video recording we did the club data mainly with angles of attack appear to be more accurate and of course you get face contact with the Quad. As everyone knows what the face is doing accounts for 85% of the ball flight. Lastly it's pretty clear that trackman records club speed at point of max compression which is why club head speed is low and with accurate ball speed you get crazy high smash factors. Based on conforming club requirements, Smash should max out at 1.5 and I get 1.52 and 1.53 all the time with trackman whereas my absolute best drive with he quad is 1.5 as expected with most being 1.47-1.49

I wonder if Trackman can approve upon calculating their indoor data through updates? The quad is awesome, but if you can't play TGC or JNPG then it makes it a tough choice. Then again, it does come down to most accurate data realistic ball flight simulation.

[RCorsa]

Lol. Clearly a trackman troll. Indoors the trackman was giving abnormally high spin numbers when ball flight was the mandatory 16-17 feet into a screen. However when taken outdoors and hitting on he exact same hitting mat, the spin numbers went down to what I would have expected and trackman was spot on perfect. However, the quad was the same indoors and out with regards to spin. Thus indoors the quad was better hands down and outdoors they were the same with relation to ball data. However dealing with club data the quad is better hands down. Based on high speed video recording we did the club data mainly with angles of attack appear to be more accurate and of course you get face contact with the Quad. As everyone knows what the face is doing accounts for 85% of the ball flight. Lastly it's pretty clear that trackman records club speed at point of max compression which is why club head speed is low and with accurate ball speed you get crazy high smash factors. Based on conforming club requirements, Smash should max out at 1.5 and I get 1.52 and 1.53 all the time with trackman whereas my absolute best drive with he quad is 1.5 as expected with most being 1.47-1.49

[Snaphook]

Which trackman?

We could not se any difference between TM4 and TM3. They have both. ,
In a perfect world i would get both.. GCQ for home/sim use and Trackman for range work.
I am not saying that TM doesnt work for indoor use, it works just fine. But i do believe gc2/gcq is a better option.

[Dax]

I think we need to get back on topic!