Trackman lawsuit against GS Pro?

[Hillbilly]

I'm concerned that my subscription with lifetime add-on might stop working

https://www.law.com/radar/card/trackman-inc-v-gsp-golf-ab-et-al-47562305-0/

Anyway to work around it?

[Jnc10]

i would not worry, trakman sues everyone and from what i read they dont have a lot to stand on here. there is zero code taken from trakman JNPG

[preludesam]

Trackman recently lost their claim against Flightscope. I think it’s fairly commonplace for all engineering fields to file suit. You might get lucky and you never know what you will find in the discovery phase of the claim.

[fuffle master]

Anyone have the details? All I see when looking is a lawsuit for infringement, but no details.

[MongoOnlyPawn]

Filing attached: TrackMan v GSPro (small).pdf

[Hillbilly]

Thanks for that. They might be on to something. Is there a way to disable the update check on start?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200707190914/http:/forum.simulatorgolftour.com/t/gspro-faq/98

[Hillbilly]

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/11802-gspro-using-pg-courses/

[tcb121]

This lawsuit is going nowhere. Unity Game Engine is what the game is built from. Trackman can whine all they want about Perfect Parallel, Perfect Golf, Virtual Golf etc etc.. As preludesam stated above trackman sued flightscope and lost as well. Golf ball tracking and Simulator Software is not exclusive to trackman even if they were "first". Are FS's radars similar to trackmans? Sure, do they track the same things / objects?? Sure. Are the algorithms similar to each other?? Sure. Did trackman win?? No.. Same goes here. Is the "GS" game similar to any other golf simulation game that trackman purchased? Sure. Did the developers leverage things already done by the other game developer?? Sure. Did they tweak some things on top of the Unity Game Engine and refine physics to make it their own?? Sure.

The cat's out of the bag already with this program. Even Foresight is going to officially support it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG-r4EG4JFg

The concept of golf simulator games is not new or exclusive to trackman. The game engine used for this game is not the same as the previous game or games that trackman purchased and even if the developers "reverse engineered" things, they did so on top of Unity's Game Engine using Unity's Physics Engine. Just because they made a way to "convert" courses from a now defunct JNPG that trackman purchased to use in this new game environment doesn't necessarily make it a copyright violation. Lidar data is lidar data, topology is topology.. Did they use information contained in a previously made course for another game and then manipulate it, enhanced it, tweak it, engineer it to work within the Unity Engine?? Sure. If I'm on the Jury I'm calling sour grapes on trackman. Time will tell and I'm sure I don't have all the "discovery" that the lawyers will have, but I don't see things going anywhere. I do totally respect their intellectual property, but competition is always coming for you, so you have to continue to innovate and improve. Seems like Trackman is content to just sue everyone who dares enter the golf ball tracking / simulation market. Maybe they should hire some developers and release a game that will take over the golf sim world instead of paying all those lawyers.


More importantly will GSF allow us to openly discuss this software when most if not all of the major launch monitor companies officially support / integrate with it? If you have Flightscope, Foresight and Uneekor as official partners does this not look like sour grapes from Trackman?

https://thegolfwire.com/loses-patent-infringement-case-flightscope/

[Wizard of Coz]

Bad blood goes way back. It seems like things are softening at the moment. Maybe the angst between the 2 is at a cease fire. Only time will tell.

[Jnc10]

not to mention GSp does not make or ship with any courses,

[Fhacker]

Oh my. Proteee owns this website n promotes their software. They can block whatever they choose

[PGAat]

Unfortunate I think TCB121 - the case is quite clear, if you read the case PDF and the Causes of Action as well the Prayer of Relief, it looks to be quite clear that GSP has used the data and courses of the other software as well, the core code of their program from previous programs. The Unity Engine gives the core, but the software around is an individual product, if they copied just parts of it, that might end up not good.

As I was in the software industry for half of my life, I can tell you if this is the case, GSP is done.
I personally do not hope so, as I think they have made a very good product, but if they have stolen code, thats might a big issue and the end of them.

As long as this was a Non profit product, it was not a big deal, and there was no case, and as it looks trackman has already communicated with them 2021 - I might seem to be now a big case with 2 Million or more on revenue of the software by the day. I think may Trackman just waited that the big competionen annouces he partnership and then blows of the bomb.

Time will tell, but usually in this things the big fish sits on the bigger boat and has bombs to drown the small vessel.

[tcb121]

It will be hard to kill at this point. Depends on the Jury I suppose and the legal counsel from both sides making a case. I didn't have a LM back when JNPG was alive and functioning, but from what I can tell it had quite a following. Will be interesting to see where this goes.

[Jnc10]

It is not as clear as it seems. What Trakman is stating as facts are not really true, they will have the burden of proving their claims which will be tough to do

[tcb121]

I read through some of the old perfect parallel message boards.. Seems like some of the old die hard guys that worked on JNPG got picked up by Trackman as GS Pro was being developed. I still think it's a long shot for Trackman to win. I go back to data being data, physics being physics. Every golf game that exists will have similar features. Trackman can make some points about how menu layout and course features resemble their products from the past, but GS Pro has really taken off as a "community" development effort with course designers etc etc. My gut says no way Trackman will be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. They may win some $$ in damages, but GS Pro will be here to stay.

[Brettster]

tcb121 - Let's hope so... a little competition makes the world better, and allows it to continue to get better. I think some interesting and valuable information will probably come out of the lawsuit, but I doubt Trackman will win - as everyone says, their (TM) interface was not so unique to the Golf Sim world that it could be called a trademark.

[Ronsc1985]

Unfortunate I think TCB121 - the case is quite clear, if you read the case PDF and the Causes of Action as well the Prayer of Relief, it looks to be quite clear that GSP has used the data and courses of the other software as well, the core code of their program from previous programs. The Unity Engine gives the core, but the software around is an individual product, if they copied just parts of it, that might end up not good.

As I was in the software industry for half of my life, I can tell you if this is the case, GSP is done.
I personally do not hope so, as I think they have made a very good product, but if they have stolen code, thats might a big issue and the end of them.

As long as this was a Non profit product, it was not a big deal, and there was no case, and as it looks trackman has already communicated with them 2021 - I might seem to be now a big case with 2 Million or more on revenue of the software by the day. I think may Trackman just waited that the big competionen annouces he partnership and then blows of the bomb.

Time will tell, but usually in this things the big fish sits on the bigger boat and has bombs to drown the small vessel.

When is the last time you read a lawsuit where the plaintiff lawyer didn't claim everything under the sun to buttress the case? Claiming and proving are two separate things. Lawyers and professional politicians are by far the largest classes of BS artists on the planet which is why they are held in the public esteem somewhere between child molesters and drug dealers..

[sorensen]

[langnolen]

I had jnpg when it was around and I remember when the developers sold to trackman. Our licenses were prevented from being renewed and we were dead in the water after a six month grace period. I can’t recall if developers were asked to sign noncompete clause, but that is where I think trackman maybe going. I know for sure the developers were hired for an initial implementation phase, but don’t know the details behind the agreement. I can say that I like gs pro more than jnpg and that maybe bc they continue to advance it, which trackman has just sat on jnpg.

[jpotas]

Bump to the top.

[jasonreg]

Why the bump - any news to share?

[jpotas]

No, I haven't heard a thing. I was just trying to see if anyone would chime in with news.