Flightscope xi indoor spin axis

[billydruce]

Hi guys been reading that the spin axis is not measured when the device is used indoors. I asked flightscope about this and they replied the below

"The spin and spin axis with FlightScope are directly measured, not calculated from other measurements. We also have a patent on our phase locked loop method for measuring spin. Here is some additional information:

http://flightscope.com/flightscope-patents-new-sports-ball-direct-spin-measuring-method/

As long as you have 13 feet of ball flight and 8-10 feet behind the player, we can guarantee our accuracy indoors"

I have emailed flightscope again to confirm that the spin axis is measured when using indoors.

[Bubba22]

My understanding is that spin and spin axis indoors is calculated not directly measured. Tell Flightscope to come on the forum to explain what they mean!

[goatbarn]

I would be very happy to know that spin axis is measured indoors, but that has not been my understanding of how it works.

My understanding has come from another site's thread on the topic, heres the text of the post from a conversation with a Flightscope tech/engineer:

is the microwave radar of the Flightscope prime less accurate/powerfull than the X2 ?
Yes, X2 has a more advanced radar design and a more powerful and sensitive antennae.

Can you confirm than the AOA is now correctly measured/calculated with the X2 ?
Yes

Total Spin and Spin axis values
Total spin is always measured directly and spin axis calculated using 3D movement of the club and tracking curvature of the ball. Wind has little effect.
With no wind and a controlled environment there shouldn't be any tolerance on spin axis, because the horizontal azimuth is so low. (I didn't understand this last point)

For indoor the total spin is also directly measured but the sidespin component is derived from the club impact trajectory and ball launch vector.


Shots measurement with Wedges
The club trajectory is not yet reliably measured for wedges. This is being worked on and will improve in the future.


Minimum Launch angle
The launch angle depends on the tilt of the radar and distance from the tee, at standard tilt of 10 degrees you will be capturing lob wedges pretty easy, but theoretically you can capture much higher shots if you could tilt the radar to 20 degrees as an example, so I could say that yes we can measure 90 deg shots, but that will be impractical.


Tolerances of the X2
LaunchAngle <0.5deg
Sideways LaunchAngle (Azimuth) < 0.2deg (Very important)
Ball speed <0.2mph
Carry <2% (outdoor)
Total Spin <50rpm
Club speed <1mph

Measured values
Angle of Attack,
Club Path,
Vertical Swing Plane,
Horizontal Swing Plane,
Speed Profile,
Accelleration Profile,
Carry,
Lateral,
Club Speed,
Ball Speed,
Vertical Launch Angle,
Horizontal Launch Angle,
Vertical Descent Angle,
Apex Height,
Flight time.

Calculated values
Smash Factor,
Dynamic Loft/Spin Loft,
Face Angle relative to Path and Target,
Spin axis,
Roll/ Totla distance.

Are all the screens available on the PC software, are also available on the IPAD ?
Yes

Can I use the X2 with a bit of rain or it's better to cease a session when it starts raining outdoor ?
Yes with rain cover it can be used, but not advisable to use in the rain without cover.

if my I change my PC, can I re-install the software on a new PC.
Yes
No charge.

After one year, can I still use the software even if I don't want to pay the 995USD fee for free support and upgrade (at least 2 a year)
Yes and if I want to have access to the newlest release, the price is 399USD.

Why is the unit so accurate ?
The reason for the accuracy is that the radar is that it generates 10,5 billion microwaves per second. The radar gets about 100 000 microwaves per second back from the club and ball and so you can see that its got an extremely high sampling rate. It compares to having 3 cameras, back, side and top running at 20 000 frames per second each. Nothing compares to that even high speed devices like Foresight could max out with multiple flashes at 10 000 frames per second. That's why camera launch monitors have a high azimuth tolerance of 1deg +.

Unless they changed their procedures?

[Brutaly]

Lol. They need to get over here. I got info from them that it is measured outdoors and calculated indoors.

If op got the right story then there is virtually no limitations regarding radar to ball distance when simulating.

[Brutaly]

I posted a direct question in the FS usergroup on Facebook. I know some of the devs lurk there.

[goatbarn]

Hopefully they don't just say to call for the answer...

[billydruce]

Reply from Tyler Burnet of flightscope

That is correct. Spin and spin axis are both directly measured indoors and outdoors. We don't have tolerances for indoors but I can tell you that outdoors the xi models are accurate within + or - 3 yards with a carry distance of 270 yards. Spin will be + or - 100 RPM and Spin Axis is + or - 2 degrees.

I am not sure about TGC but I know that e6 is estimated to be subscription based and should be around $25-$35 per month.

I would guess it was calculated and now its measured they only filled the patent in sept 2014.

[goatbarn]

I want someone that actually knows the science behind the numbers to say that it is measured and how.

If it's not measured I want them to say it's calculated from this, this, and this.

That would end the conversation for me. That reply sounds like most of them, from a somewhat knowledgable Flightscope sales rep. I love FS, but just like every other company many of their reps are ill-informed.

And if it's the case that they now DO measure it, and before they calculated it, I want them to say that.

[Brutaly]

Sales support i the US has promised on FB that a clarification will be posted. I will repost it here.

[Bubba22]

Well if it's calculated with the Trackman indoors, I would suspect its calculated with the Flightscope. Flightscope needs to come here and clarify this point. Like Goat said, if measured they need to tell exactly how and no smoke and mirrors or play on words such as derived etc.

[Dax]

Flightscope has been out there saying that they have changed how they measure spin due to their lawsuit issues, perhaps their fix catches this? Also, we should be clear if it is all their radars or just the latest and greatest one that they released a few months back.

[mystic]

Flightscope improved the accuracy and speed by which they capture spin rates which is patented, similar to the previous way. Remember who came first.

[Bubba22]

Flightscope improved the accuracy and speed by which they capture spin rates which is patented, similar to the previous way. Remember who came first.

Yes but are they directly measuring ball sidespin spin/spin axis indoors?

[mystic]

No, nobody measures spin axis indoors. There isn't enough ball flight. its derived from face, path and dynamic loft. does it matter if its measured or calculated? i'm not sure of the answer myself.

[Brutaly]

We got the first answer. Outdoors it is calculated but it is a very precise calculation since they have/use the curvature of the ball. So its not measured directly.

It is also calculated indoors but the parameters used wasnt in their reply.

I asked fot a clarification regarding parameters used indoors.