HMT Data and Draw Spin

[wbond]

Can someone explain how I can be getting draw spin when face to path is open and the ball is struck on the heel? I believe this should produce fade spin based on ball flight laws and gear effect of the driver.

Also, my lie seems to be very high for toe up, could this be causing it? I don't know what kind of numbers for toe up would be considered a normal range.

[A.West]

Good question. I thought you are right, I don't know how much toe up could counter open face to path. A good question to ask Foresight.

[mmlincon]

Can you post a picture of your club and fiducials? The lie angle you are getting is massive! Typically these are in the 1-3 degree range. If those number are correct then yes a toe up angle of that magnitude is going to cause a draw. In effect it is closing the club face even if the actual face angle is open.

[andygg1986]

Drivers are usually toe up much more than irons. The relatively low loft should keep it from causing too much draw.

[wbond]

mmlincon andygg1986 Here is a pic and fwiw, my 7 iron is averaging about 5 deg toe up, which I'm certain is a swing fault of mine that needs to be addressed. Irons have been checked and lie angles are standard.

[onehandicap]

I am on the height challenged side (5'5") and have to have my irons bent 2* flat and most wedges 3-4 flat. With those changes I am usually pretty close to 0* toe up on irons. I am generally 8-10* toe up on driver, unless I grip WAY down...then I can get it to 5*. All that said, i have notice the same as you regarding face to path. I have wondered if face to path on the HMT/GC2 is face to target vs face to club path. That would make a lot more sense. Your AoA would, in theory, offset part of your in to out path, so that would make the face to path (vs face to target line) even more questionable).

For those who don't know about AoA impact on spin axis, look up the "D-plane." It is very interesting and little more advanced than most people get into, but has a real impact on spin axis. As an example....if you have -8* AoA on an 8 iron and 0* path and face angle...guess what.?..it ain't going straight...that 8 iron is going to turn left. Zeroing out spin axis with a -8* AoA and 0* face is going to mean you have to being a decent amount left.

Brian Manzella did a few awesome D-plane videos a number of years ago.

BTW I have asked this question (club data vs. ball flight law inconsistency) to Foresight and never received an adequate response. Maybe send them your data and see if they actually get back to you. If so, i would love to hear what they say. I ranted about a week ago regarding their software vs Trackman. Their support sucks even worse relative to Trackman's. LOL

[wbond]

I have wondered face to path vs face to target as well, but i did switch them in the software and they do give the same info. The face being more open to the target than the path. Also less than impressed with their support, couldn't even get an answer on how to select a different drive to install a course to.

[mmlincon]

If you haven't already go through the PEAK training at Foresight. It's free now. It goes over in detail what/how the GC2/Quad are measuring. I think it's a combination of your AoA and the Lie angle that is generating the draws. That and quite a few have the path greater than the face angle so that will promote a draw spin as well.

[wbond]

I have just gone through and got my certificate for the level one Peak training. It's pretty interesting stuff. I've done the Crossfield and Hall videos as well and starting to make my way through the wedge series. I've got a online lesson setup with Shanky coming up so we'll see what he's got to say as well.

I am not sure what you mean on this part though (That and quite a few have the path greater than the face angle), can you explain a little more if possible. From what i see, all of the face angles are more open than the path. For example on the first shot, path is 2.1 in to out and face to path is 1.6 open so my face to target should be 3.7 open, assuming I understand this correctly.

If you haven't already go through the PEAK training at Foresight. It's free now. It goes over in detail what/how the GC2/Quad are measuring. I think it's a combination of your AoA and the Lie angle that is generating the draws. That and quite a few have the path greater than the face angle so that will promote a draw spin as well.

[mmlincon]

Yeah I was thinking face to target line, not path. You mentioned that changing this didn't make a difference. That's interesting. The spin axis and curvature seem to match a reading that would be more target line than path in these cases. The lie angle and AoA are going to contribute but I don't know that it would be enough to override the fade bias with the path/face. it might.

[mthunt]

I had the same issue. I bent the irons flatter and it reduced draw spin a lot.

[Taco]

5* toe up is going to produce a tremendous amount of not only draw bias on solid hits but is also going to get your heal digging and adding face rotation that will cause even more. Bend your irons, flatten your driver setting, or go get fit.