GC2 real world accuracy and general questions?

[davray666]

Hi there all you GC2 owners! I am seriously considering becoming one as well.
I still have some questions that are difficult to get answers to by reading the official documents or marketing material.
So if any of you could shed some light on the topics I would be grateful.
We can assume that everything is setup correctly and that I am using new balls in an indoor environment.

1. Flop shots, what is the highest vertical launch angle that the unit can pick up reliably. The spec claims 70 degrees. Would you agree that this works reliably at the specified +/- 0.2 degrees accuracy?
2. The Horizontal launch angle is specified to +/- 1 degree. While this might be accurate for some low launching irons and drives. Would you say it's also valid for wedge shots that launch higher?
In some cases people tend to measure the accuracy based on feel. Have you done or seen any accuracy tests where something more scientific has been done?
3. If I buy a used unit, is it still possible to register it and get support from Foresight without paying transfer fees?
4. I have seen some discussions on TGC + GC2 compatibility but can't conclude if it is indeed compatible with the latest firmware, Is it?
5. If a simulator software supplier wants to read the data the unit produces via Bluetooth to use it for game play or other things. Do they have to pay Foresight or is this protocol provided for free?

Am I barking up the wrong tree, should I post the questions somewhere else like Foresight official support or something?

[V8burble]

Hi,
1. No Idea. will let others answer
2. I don't see why the height would change accuracy given the position of the cameras etc. I understand it to be accurate (though it's only as accurate as the target line for both unit and golf ball)
3. I'm in UK and bought used. Justin (Foresight UK) was very helpful with general questions. Firmware is freely downloadable so not sure what "support" you require. I wouldn't expect extensive support such as reconditioning or serious troubleshooting to be free if you are not paying for support plan, but that's just my expectations.
4. I used latest firmware (3.7.0.0) with TGC today and all appears to work well. I believe others have said the same though I have seen suggestions for 3.5.1.0 but I'm not sure why.
5. No idea.
Hopefully others will answer the outstanding questions.
Phil

[davray666]

Thank you Phil.
For question 2 on the horizontal launch angle accuracy I see now that I should have been more clear.
That is if we assume that the unit is 100% target aligned.

The reason I am asking is that I think I know how it works after having read the patent. The method described is very advanced and if they indeed do it like it is described then HLA and VLA will be very accurate for all shot types. I am a bit skeptical because to do that with electronics that was designed 10 years ago is borderline science fiction.
So it would be nice to have a confirmation from an independent source that has tested it.

As for VLA, let me rephrase. What is the highest vertical launch angle that you have been able to capture? If you play TGC I assume you have had a few deep green bunker shots where you open the club face like in real life. Does it normally register those shots or do you have to redo them and close the club face so the ball launches at a lower angle?

[Js1010]

Hello daveray666.

I can try to answer some of these.

1. I never had a problem with the unit picking up flops and I have had it for years now. I have swing video software and have used the angle tool to measure the ball blur. Of the handful of times I tested it the LA was within a degree - but my swing software angle tool doesn't measure to the tenth of a degree.

I just hit a few flops to see how high i could hit it and got one with 50 launch. A little afraid to really try to hit one higher with my current setup.

2. Haven't done enough testing and as I stated above as I don't have tools to measure this to the tenth.

3. Don't know for sure but I remember reading a gc2 listing on ebay recently where the seller said he had contacted Foresight himself and would make sure they transferred ownership to the buyer.

4. 3.7.0.0 is the latest and works fine with tgc - been using it since this past January.


5. This is what TGC is doing - reading the blutooth stream from the gc2 and sending the launch data to TGC to render the flight using its own carry algorithm.

[davray666]

Thank you, that was very useful feedback.

[Ronsc1985]

[QUOTE=davray666;n41059]Hi there all you GC2 owners! I am seriously considering becoming one as well.
I still have some questions that are difficult to get answers to by reading the official documents or marketing material.
So if any of you could shed some light on the topics I would be grateful.
We can assume that everything is setup correctly and that I am using new balls in an indoor environment.

1. Flop shots, what is the highest vertical launch angle that the unit can pick up reliably. The spec claims 70 degrees. Would you agree that this works reliably at the specified +/- 0.2 degrees accuracy?

Indoors 70 degree launch shots are not realistic simply because you will hit the top of your enclosure or ceiling and be dodging golf balls. As an example if you launch at 45 degrees then your screen height needs to be as high as your distance from the screen. Simple trig can compute what you need for any launch angle..

2. The Horizontal launch angle is specified to +/- 1 degree. While this might be accurate for some low launching irons and drives. Would you say it's also valid for wedge shots that launch higher?

Seems to be since the carry distances are spot on for the same ambient weather conditions outdoors when measured with a laser to determine landing distance. Once you start talking roll then indoor/outdoor the comparisons are unreliable since you can't really include or measure the actual ground conditions. In the course simulations the ground slope is taken into consideration when computing the distance shots travel. This is really noticeable for simulations like Spydglass


3. If I buy a used unit, is it still possible to register it and get support from Foresight without paying transfer fees?

I did and the transfer was arranged by the original owner. If you are the third owner I don't know. This transfer included all the software updates for both the courses included and the device operating system. The Foresight customer was also very prompt and helpful in answering any questions by email. No charge for anything.

4&5 I don't know since I use the Foresight software to do simulations indoors using HDMI connection and have no need.for any other connection.

[davray666]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I am a bit confused with your closing statement. Does the GC2 have a HDMI connector? I would think not but then again I don't have a unit yet.
As for the 70 degree launch. In my sim setup I can launch at 70 degrees without damaging anything or dodging balls. Not saying that it's a useful shot if you are trying to practice like in real life. From what I have been able to determine I need to be able to measure 55 degrees reliably to use it for all the shots I like to practice or play in a sim setup.

[Ronsc1985]

No the GC2 doesn't have a HDMI connection but the computer I use to power the simulation software and the projector does. Since I only use the unit with the sim software at home there is no need for any other connection. Why would I display on a small i-phone, android etc screen when I can look at a 9x12 foot image? If you are interested in saving the result of a practice session I believe the the Foresight software allow this although I really don't remember doing this.

The Foresight software is expensive, mine with the 10 courses came included in the used GC2 deal, but it does quite a lot. One of the really useful features is you can drop a ball anywhere on any of the courses you have and practice from this spot, shot after shot if you desire. Hitting 180 yard shots into the 8th at Pebble tends to sharpen your attention vs hitting down a simulated range.

[davray666]

Js1010 or anybody that has the equipment. What is the shot to render time for the GC2 + TGC combo. I have seen videos of TGC with ProTee, GSA and Skytrak sensors. None with GC2 + TGC. Has anybody else seen any?

[Raven1307]

I don't have the equipment, but from videos I've seen, I think it's pretty quick. Maybe a second?

I would be curious, with the amount of time on market, if/when a GC3 or another iteration of the hardware would come out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[V8burble]

I use GC2 and TGC and although I haven't ever gone through the bother of noting the time of the delay, I would say it's no more than a second.

[Js1010]

Its about a second to launch.

I made a couple quick videos of me actually hitting a ball in tgc.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zcy3klqu5e2i9v2/TGC%20Shot%20Fairway.mov?dl=0

and a flop shot out of a bunker -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4q4zh8efbxjgthp/Bunker.mov?dl=0

this one was not super high - just trying to get it out of pretty deep bunker - think it was 40 launch - but I was able to hit a flop with LA 53.44 today which hit my ceiling net about 6-7 feet in front of me. No problem picking any of these up.


here is a shot in the foresight range software using USB Connection to show you the time delay on this. Probably a half a second quicker.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cefonpsfkn66yx5/FSS%20Shot.mov?dl=0

[davray666]

Great setup you have there JS. The videos where great. Really impressive to see the driving range shot and how the virtual ball start position is pretty much spot on where the real ball hits the screen.

[davray666]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the feedback. I am convinced.
Just bought one like 5min ago.

[ryanoneill1]

I am looking at a GC2 as well. Did you purchase the unit from Foresight? Or get any of the FR1 or FSX software

[Stiggity]

I'll take your skytrak case =)

[davray666]

I got it from 2ndSwing. It's used. For software I will use the iPad app since practicing is the main interest. If I decide that I want to do full blown simulation I guess I would have to see what options I have. The software prices from Foresight are insane, so I am definitely not getting anything from them. Since I am not that in to it I think TGC is also to much money, but I guess a few weeks from now when the weather is worse and all those great courses keep popping up ...
Stiggity, the case goes with the ST unit:-) Have not decided if I will sell it or not, but if I do it will be sold to someone in EU. If they don't want the infamous and only shank proof protection. I will drop you a PM.

[Bubba22]

Congrats davray on your GC2 purchase. So will you be getting TGC? If so join our online tour!

[davray666]

Thanks Bubba. It will take 1 month before I get it so I still have some time to think about the "To TGC or not to TGC" question.
But I guess the conclusion is already given, it just needs to sink in. Will be happy to join the tour if it does happen.

[Js1010]

Daveray, just an FYI - If you are planning on going the IOS App route in the short term - make sure the GC2 you are getting is a GC2A and not the few years older GC2. The older GC2 has Bluetooth and will work fine with TGC (as mine does) but will NOT connect to Apple Devices. The newer GC2A has an apple compatible bluetooth chip. I belive you can send it in to to upgrade but that is not cheap either.

[davray666]

Thank JS, it has one of those A serial numbers. I specifically asked about that.

[SFR]

Compared GC2 on a real Range with Foresight software running on a laptop to compare flight:

Been wanting to get A range session with the GC2 and laptop running Foresight Range to compare real ball flight and simulated. We finally had a calm night where there was no wind at all and the temp was still ok at 16 deg. C. and no one else on the Range. I was using regular white (some what beat up) golf balls because the range yellow balls did not register. No boost used on the software.

I was able to set up straight between a row of markers that were 20 yds apart. So between them was on line and if one ended up right or left on the marker line they would be off by 10 yds.

I always felt my Driver was not getting the yds on the GC2 as I do in real golf. The range showed that when the GC2 showed a 245 to 255 yd carry the ball was actually going 260 to 270 carry in real life. This was with someone standing out on the range to watch the carry. The Foresight range software was not using the exact carry that the GC2 showed and was on average higher and closer to the real ball flight carry but still a bit low. However there were a couple that the GC2 showed 245 and the real carry was 260 to 265 but the foresight software showed a 227 carry. Not sure why those showed up the odd time and they were on well hit balls with very little off line. This happens on TGC the odd time with its calculation. However even About Golf on the Golf Channel some times shows some weird carry numbers. Every system seems to have its flaws in its calculations.

As far as off line, that was a little all over. For the most part when a ball was hit bad with lots of slice or hook, the Foresight software showed a lot more hook or slice. Example would be a real 20 yd off line was read as 35 yds. The ones that were hit well with less than 10 yd off line seemed to show the best and most accurate. It is hard to judge the roll on our range as it is very new yet and not a lot of roll so that may play into it somewhat however even the landing spot in Foresight was most times too far left or right compared to the real ball flight. So in the past when I tested Foresight against TGC and thought TGC did not show enough hook or slice to match Foresight, it was a good thing because Foresight seems like it has too much.

8 iron seemed closer but still short by about that 5% in carry and 50 yd to 100 yd shots were right on. The only ones that the GC2 seems to read too long are the sculled shots. They were 50 to 60 yd real life carry can show as 100 yd carry on the GC2.

I don't have numbers recorded but just wanted to see for my self if TGC should have more ball movement than it did for hooks and slices, but I think it is ok and is a lot closer than I had once thought. Also I feel better knowing that 5% boost of the GC2 numbers is not out of the question for the Driver to match real ball flight, and here, we are at about 2200 feet. The ball would also fly better on a hot day as well.

Last winter was a bad season on the sim as I had been swinging harder and harder to try to match my (what I thought I should get) yardage. I ended up with back issues all year and I still have to watch how hard I swing now but outdoors I swing a lot easier and still get the distance. Don't want to miss out this years sim season as things are looking like a lot of fun.