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An open letter to Foresight

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  • An open letter to Foresight

    This is my second thread on the subject. My goal on this is to make this thread less of a rant and more of a discussion on their current policy which I believe to be a large business mistake, and I'm hoping for additional input from other owners and potential owners of the GC2 product, with the end goal of Foresight seeing the folly of their ways and reversing the recent decision to charge a $500 registration fee to second hand customers before selling them replacement parts or service.

    It is my understanding based on inferences drawn from my conversation with a salesman at Foresight that this $500 transfer fee is out of frustration with a recent Golfsmith bankruptcy sale resulting in a hundred or so used GC2's flooding the market and resulting in a barrage of support calls at Foresight. Why I believe this to be a business mistake is because they are taking out their frustration on their customer base, thus depreciating their product and making it a less viable option for customers considering it.

    The first major point I'd like to address to Foresight is that their perspective on their current situation is wrong. They are the manufacturer of the GC2 product, therefore everyone who bought one second hand are their customers as they are the current owner of their product. To give an analogy for an example, Toyota (or any other new car manufacturer) makes new vehicles that are sold in the United States. They are resold by a franchise owner dealer to the end consumer. If this product is traded in at a Ford dealership and then resold to another customer, that second customer is now a Toyota customer, regardless of whether they bought it new or used. That customer is entitled to all of the warranties offered to the original owner, and can service anywhere they choose. No new car manufacturer charges a transfer fee because they produce the product and that product represents them as a company regardless of who the end user is.

    This brings me to my second point- Foresight is actively tanking their residual values with this current campaign, which actually will hurt them in the long run. The short sighted view of "charge a transfer fee before servicing the product or selling replacement parts" is folly for a number of reasons. Not only is it a penalty to the person who elected to buy the product used, but also is a penalty to everyone bought their product new, and will be a determining purchasing factor for anyone considering investing in the product. I bought my GC2 before this whole fiasco started, and I wasn't 100% sure that sim golf was for me. One of the reasons I bought it (and this is a factor any time a purchase that is a significant investment is considered) is because the GC2 is a product known for its resale value and demand, and based on that my logic was that if it didn't work out for me, I could resell it without incurring a massive financial penalty. With the introduction of a $500 transfer fee before services are offered and replacement parts are sold, a significant cost is added to a used unit, thus adjusting the price that it will bring, which hurts the owner of the product (the GC2 customer) selling it. Foresight is short sighted to think that this is just a penalty to those who bought their product used, this is a very real depreciation hit to anyone who currently owns one, including original owners.

    Going back to that used car analogy, one of the reasons Toyota sells so many new cars is because of the resale of their product remaining high making it a smarter decision. Almost every product depreciates and that depreciation factors into cost of ownership. If Toyota would introduce a $500 ownership transfer fee before the second owner could even service the product at their cost, the prices the used cars would bring would go down as the second owner is factoring that into their purchase price. They would immediately begin to sell less new cars because the person purchasing the car would now have to factor in the additional depreciation caused by the fee. It hurts the original owner and ultimately the manufacturer because they sell less products as a result.

    Going on to current second hand GC2 owners, the $500 transfer fee is ridiculous because Foresight is pushing away their own customers. Like I mentioned before, Foresight is looking at this all wrong as second hand owners are ALSO Foresight customers, because they bought the product. Not allowing that individual to service their product or buy replacement parts until paying a fee is insane as it comes across as a shameless cash grab. Myself and others who recently bought used GC2's (mine wasn't a Golfsmith unit but I bought around the same time,) are being asked to pay a fee before being allowed to pay for parts and service. This makes zero sense, as it is pushing away customers looking to pay retail for products that they offer. If I want to buy a battery from you and am willing to pay what you are asking for it, why on earth would you ask me to pay a transfer fee to do so? That $65 should by all rights be a profit, and that profit is Foresight's upside on that sale. When I send it in in the spring to get my front kick stand replaced, I'll be paying parts and labor to the tune of $200 or so from what I'm told, and that $200 will be a profit to them. When my flash (a wear and tear item) dies, I'll be buying a new one, at a profit. Foresight needs to recognize that the profit on replacement parts is what they stand to gain from servicing existing customers, and not a $500 profit before customers can then pay a profit.

    I'm typing this while I'm at work and I'm sure I've leaving some points out that I'll go back to add, and obviously this is a forum so feel free to add on to it.

    In summary, this letter is to explain to Foresight that what they are doing is wrong and that it is a poor business decision in the long run, and I strongly urge them to reconsider for the sake of the success of their business and their product. The GC2 is a great product and hope it continues to be, but this is not a market without competition and this current move certainly encourages customers to look at competitor products.

    -Bob

  • #2
    As a first follow up to this- as a minimum when a major policy change such as this takes place, all current owners should be given an option to "register" before the fee takes place. No one who could have registered for free prior to this week should be penalized by a surprise policy change.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just wondering if anyone else has been requested $500 for ownership transfer, or if you're the only one so far.
      I read you're other thread, and the majority of users have nothing but praise for Foresight customer support.

      Personally, I've had great service from them on the several occasions I've contacted them... however I was always buying new products from them, or getting support with new products I've just purchased.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by p3eps View Post
        Just wondering if anyone else has been requested $500 for ownership transfer, or if you're the only one so far.
        I read you're other thread, and the majority of users have nothing but praise for Foresight customer support.

        Personally, I've had great service from them on the several occasions I've contacted them... however I was always buying new products from them, or getting support with new products I've just purchased.
        I talked to someone on the phone today who is being hit with a registration fee as well. From what I know, this is new as of Wednesday this week, so I expect it to take some time before people have a need to contact Foresight.

        I encourage anyone with a used GC2 to call them and ask.

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        • #5
          I have been told the same by Foresight.

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          • #6
            I don't remember registering my GC2 when I originally bought it from Par2Pro... so how would they know if the person I sold it to was the original owner or not?

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            • #7
              This is reduculous and not acceptable! Good letter bm.

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              • #8
                Everybody at Foresight has been a pleasure to talk to and always helpful. I think the main problem with the company, who makes a great launch monitor, is a huge disconnect between the departments. The sales guys push hard on what is passed down by upper management and they seem to change things on a whim. Unfortunately, this is something they can do because it is still relatively a small company. In general I have several FSX questions because they push you to primarily use FSX, but who is there to answer them..........No one. Tech is great at what they do and beyond helpful, but they have no idea what courses are even available and they barely ever get to play them. If I ask Sales if any new courses are coming out, they have absolutely no idea because there money maker is the unit. Well, I bought the unit and I am asking about FSX, and no one at the company has played any of the courses I ask about. I wouldn't have a problem with this, but they started doing an SDK fee about a year ago trying to make $1K extra if you don't buy their software. We all know TGC works fine with the GC2, but if you run it, you void the warranty. This was never stated when I bought the unit.
                I have TGC and several FSX courses, and my main gripe is I wish they never pushed the software so hard. It literally feels like I am the only person interested in FSX. No one at Foresight probably cares about the courses because they all live in CA. That is what lead me to ask about E6 1.6 in another thread.

                Bottom line is the employees are always helpful and gracious, but only as helpful as they can be. Foresight should have a company meeting and get everyone and every department on the same page.

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                • #9
                  I'm not totally sure, as I'm not an attorney but this policy cannot be legal. I think they could make this a policy on any new units sold. (likely driving the value down)but the previous one would have to be exempt. it would be like deciding there is a title requirement for a cars after you sold 250,000 units without a titles. the next units could require a title, but the previous one would have to be exempt. I don't believe you can arbitrarily make new rules to old things. lets say you buy software for $250. Six months down the road a screen can't pop up that says ohhh by the way this costs $10 a month to keep using it. The software company could offer an upgrade that if accepted could then begin to charge you a monthly fee. There would be literally no limitation to how badly you could screw over a consumer. I'm not a genius or anything but wouldn't it have been smart of foresight to make a deal to purchase back all of the golfsmith units "refurbish" them and sell them at a smaller discount. They would still make the money from the sales and could have increased sales potential by offering factory refurbished units? just some random thoughts but hell what do I know.

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                  • #10
                    Good point..

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                    • #11
                      Flightscope has a transfer fee, but I knew that from the beginning.

                      This is BS tho.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by col forbin View Post
                        Everybody at Foresight has been a pleasure to talk to and always helpful. I think the main problem with the company, who makes a great launch monitor, is a huge disconnect between the departments. The sales guys push hard on what is passed down by upper management and they seem to change things on a whim. Unfortunately, this is something they can do because it is still relatively a small company. In general I have several FSX questions because they push you to primarily use FSX, but who is there to answer them..........No one. Tech is great at what they do and beyond helpful, but they have no idea what courses are even available and they barely ever get to play them. If I ask Sales if any new courses are coming out, they have absolutely no idea because there money maker is the unit. Well, I bought the unit and I am asking about FSX, and no one at the company has played any of the courses I ask about. I wouldn't have a problem with this, but they started doing an SDK fee about a year ago trying to make $1K extra if you don't buy their software. We all know TGC works fine with the GC2, but if you run it, you void the warranty. This was never stated when I bought the unit.
                        I have TGC and several FSX courses, and my main gripe is I wish they never pushed the software so hard. It literally feels like I am the only person interested in FSX. No one at Foresight probably cares about the courses because they all live in CA. That is what lead me to ask about E6 1.6 in another thread.

                        Bottom line is the employees are always helpful and gracious, but only as helpful as they can be. Foresight should have a company meeting and get everyone and every department on the same page.
                        r

                        Tell me, with all the great TGC courses, how often do you find yourself using FSX?
                        My Courses:
                        World Par 3's by mthunt
                        Toronto GC (L) mthunt
                        Burlington G&CC by mthunt
                        Weston G&CC by mthunt
                        London Hunt Club L mthunt
                        Park CC Lidar mthunt
                        Sunningdale GC Robinson L
                        Sunningdale GC Thompson L
                        Muirfield Village (liDAR) First Ever Lidar course
                        Country Club of Castle Pines (liDAR)
                        The Sanctuary GC ProTee L
                        The National GC L mthunt
                        Mississaugua GC L mthunt
                        Shaughnessy G&CC L mthunt
                        Markland Woods CC mthunt
                        Hidden Lake Old L mthunt
                        Magna GC L mthunt
                        Barrie CC L mthunt
                        mthunt Range

                        Comment


                        • col forbin
                          col forbin commented
                          Editing a comment
                          TGC graphically blows it away and there are a ton of great courses. However, I purchased the FSX in 2014 before TGC and I still do this day give it a chance. I find some of their courses such as Flint Hills, Wentworth West, Lookaway, Nine Lakes , Interlachen, Quarry at Giants Ridge are pretty awesome. Probably because they are not rehashes from the previous red chain software, which most of the other courses they offer on FSX are. Bottom line, I love having options, I just wish FSX would move faster in refining the software. So to answer your question, 50/50.

                      • #13
                        Great input so far guys, lets keep this going! We are the customer base that drives the machine that is Foresight, if we make it clear enough they will see the error of their ways, I'm confident in it!

                        -Bob

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by mthunt View Post
                          r

                          Tell me, with all the great TGC courses, how often do you find yourself using FSX?
                          I recently bought FSX and use it all the time now. I haven't switched TGC on in about 3 months other than to see how it runs with my new GFX card.

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                          • #15
                            Open letter to Scott Werbelow, President Foresight Sports, maybe he can provide some answers to this new consumer gouging tactic?

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