Fullswing s2/ion2 Cameras

[JJI1981]

Does anyone know if fullswing's simulators do indeed capture ball data/spin? I believe they claim to be able to do this via overhead camera.

Thanks in advance. This is a wonderful forum btw.

[shimonko]

They do, but so does a $2000 SkyTrak - it's all about how accurately it's done.

In FullSwingGolf's FAQ:

How accurate is it?

There isn’t a scale or metric for measuring accuracy of the real world vs. the virtual world of our simulator or any other. However, based on years of scientific study and customer feedback, FSG sims are incredibly accurate.

FSG engineers have used every technology in and out of golf to validate our technologies and data. If PGA TOUR pros trust FSG for serious practice and data analysis, all FSG customers can expect nothing but the most accurate experience on the market.

Well there is a scale for measuring how accurate the speed, direction and spin of a ball is launched and SkyTrak, GC2 and Trackman professionally indicate so, as does any piece of expensive equipment claiming incredibly accuracy. PGA pros have been fooled by Trackman's data, they were fooled by erroneous ball flight laws taught by the PGA for years. Pros are not a scientific measuring instrument, otherwise they wouldn't bother with launch monitors.

[Boerdoc]

There are so many factors that play into the data captured. From the hitting mat to the indoor hitting effect, you cannot expect any launch monitor or simulator to exactly mimic outdoor golf. That being said, you can get the relative information required to improve your game. After all, does it matter that the sim measures your driver spin at 2500 or 2700. as long as the data is consistent and what you see indoors mimics what you see outside you can get valuable information that is used to improve your game.

As a high handicap player, my most important data are actually club path data, not ball spin data. I worked for a year grooving an in-to-out swing path. Now that I have that I am working on clubface control. The spin really does not matter to me. It is certainly important in club fitting. for me I do not care if my wedges are spinning 8000 or 10000. Do they have the same rollout and/or hop and stop as real life.

With that said, I like my Protee system that give me measured club path and ball path and calculates the spin. I am ok with that.
GC2 (no HMT) and Skytrak do not give club data.

My next simulator, (we are moving) will probably be a Fullswing S2. I would love to see a comparison between S2 and trackman or GC2 for spin and ball flight.

[shimonko]

Unfortunately consistency and accuracy are interrelated.A SkyTrak's 2° HLA accuracy and 250 rpm side-spin accuracy means identical straight drives by a pro could feasibly land anywhere between 25 yards left and 25 yards right of center, and be shown as a pull, push, slice, hook, push-hook, push slice,.... So what you do?

[shimonko]

It's likely SkyTrak's side-spin 250 rpm side-spin accuracy occurs at large negative HLAs so will be much better than 250 rpm for straight drives, but the point still stands. I really have no idea if I ever so slightly pushing putts, pulling putts or hitting them straight.

[bennyg211]

Are you seriously suggesting that 250rpm equates to +/-25yards difference? That measurement is at a point in time at the beginning of the shot and decays from that point on. I find it hard to believe a yard of two difference, relative to the total spin we we talking at strike, up to 10000rpm on lofted clubs. Happy to be schooled though where that rational comes from though

[shimonko]

No - spin's only about half of it. SkyTrak doesn't decay spin - it should, but it doesn't. The other half is the 2° horizontal launch angle accuracy.

Here are some OptimalFlight calculations for the average drive figures on tour - red boxed numbers are the side deviation. A no errors, B 2° HLA accuracy, C 250rpm side spin accuracy, D both spin and HLA accuracies.

https://i.imgur.com/aKm2MMX.png

[JJI1981]

I have used the skytrack many times and I honestly think it's a pretty impressive machine. Although it has a delay and very precise hitting area, the data I get from it is impressive. One thing the skytrack/gc2 does that simple club trackers do not is capture the gear effect spin on a ball for off center hits. I'm wondering if the Fullswing models can be as accurate on this and related issues.