Ernest Sports ES Tour Plus 2.0 (Upgrade!)

[Chuck]

I just received an email I've been wanting to receive for a long time now. Ernest sports has an Upgrade path for current ES Tour Plus owners to it's new ES Tour Plus 2.0 model. This email was sent to all ES Tour Plus owners from the CEO that says;

[QUOTE][The major improvements you will notice are:

Requirement to face the logo on the ball toward the camera.
Intermittent difficulty registering a shot, aka getting a “green” light.
Shots that hit the mat before the ball causing a “no read.”

Additionally, the 3.5 second delay to see data appear on the screen makes the user think that shot did not register. To resolve that issue, we have changed the algorithms to display the data as it is received internally so that information like club speed and ball speed will show up on the screen immediately.
/QUOTE]

Sounds good. Anything to get rid of the "no read". Anything that improves the side spin and spring angle amplification I sometimes see. I'm all for accuracy. While the upgrade isn't cheap (nor free), it does take the old reliable ES Tour Plus to a more competitive position, given competitors like Rapsoda MLM2PRO, the Garmin R10, and the Skytrak 1 and 2. The change is both software and hardware so not a trivial upgrade. The email says to Just "call or email for an RA number and send us your unit so that we can incorporate these very important hardware and software changes," Lastly the cost for this; "The cost of the upgrade is $395.00 with one-way shipping included, but we are offering this upgrade for $350.00 through the end of August."

I'm so glad to see this. Although I have a really good setup now with my R10 including a home-brew putting system that is close to the bees-knees of putt sims, I would always turn on the ES TP16 for TGC 2019 tournaments once a week. Anyway, it's good to see ES jumping in and not forgetting the base.

[Bubba22]

I actually love putting on the GC3. The problem i have with the ES16 is the horizontal azimuth reading with putts. I'm confused with the ES balls. Are they just for calibration and not sim use? Seems odd.

[justin962]

Hi Chuck, I just posted a question in a thread of yours about the MLM2Pro and then stumbled upon your thread here about the ES Tour Plus 2.0. If you had to pick an indoor monitor for under $1000 (new or used), which one would you gravitate towards given your experience? Same question for under $2000. Thanks!

[Chuck]

Hi Chuck, I just posted a question in a thread of yours about the MLM2Pro and then stumbled upon your thread here about the ES Tour Plus 2.0. If you had to pick an indoor monitor for under $1000 (new or used), which one would you gravitate towards given your experience? Same question for under $2000. Thanks!

Well, that is a hard question because everything has good points and bad points. I was an early adopter of the MLM2PRO and was hoping that it would blow my socks off. The PGA show hype was strong on this one. I'm a pretty tech-savvy guy and didn't expect much in the way of issues. The hardware looked solid, well-engineered, and thought out. I had an Android and downloaded their app, and that was when all expectations for me died. It was flat, 2D, and barely offered anything of value. I would compare the app to an amateur attempt to code an Android app to plot a graph! I kept hearing promises but all changes were just bug fixes in the original with no improvements to note. The fact that they wanted to charge $200 for this crap burned my nuts, so that was it. 3rd party software has made this usable and hardware-wise it is really really good, but it would still chap my balls that they want a $200 subscription for that shit software to make it work as advertised.

In comparison, the Garmin R10 had an acceptable free app and while it wasn't the best app, it was good. My first experience with it was on a warmup session at a local course driving range with my Android phone. Every number looked pretty good to me. Its small size and portability made it useful in the bag. However, initially, it was a horrible experience in my sim environment. It would miss swing, get things wrong, and just not get numbers right. I lived with it for a couple of weeks and then someone mentioned here about building a Faraday cage over the projector or any fan or anything moving. So I spent a weekend trying out ideas and just decide to staple a porch screen box around my projector with a cut-out for the lens and damn if that didn't work perfectly! Then further learning from forums and tweaking the position of the R10, you can get short realistic chipping down to a few feet (Lift the unit up 2" from level, tilt just a bit down). With this guy alignment is everything! Once you have it, it's bang on. Some folks object to the spin and side-spin values it generates. I kind of agree the sidespin can be less than expected with toe and heel shots, but for the center shots, you won't miss it. Also, ball flight distances are debatable for some.

For the club attached, I really like the Tittle-X (rebranded to the Swinglogic SLX). With E6 Connect, this device is a pleasure to use as a training aid. With E6 it gives a swing path and swing score. It gives a good estimate of the distance and ball flight. It plays a tad bit straight in that it doesn't have a side-spin estimate so you will not see draws or fades but all other numbers look good. In E6 it will even give you a 'Swing Score' kind of like the old Zepp measure, We are talking about using real clubs here... none of the Swingstick thing. I think with a little AI training, these little swing monitors could potentially compete with full-launch monitors. (Maybe a lot of AI training. But It's not here yet.) This is a great device to dip your toes into Sim-golf at a very low price point.

Right now in the sub $2000 area, you're kind of stuck at the ES16 or Skytrack, and on that, I would be split. My ES16 has lasted me several years. It's robust in that it gives you ball and club data, spin data, and side spin and it does putting! However, it crashes on getting all of those measures reliably. Consistent swing data is what it lacks. For example, a 3 wood off the deck will launch perfectly with the perfect impact swing. However, if it's just a hair's breadth off with just a brush of the carpet, you might just get a no-read. It all becomes just a frustration to the max. So If you don't give the ES16 a good swing (for example fat, thin, wanky chip, or wonky pitch), you may get bad numbers or no numbers at all. I was hoping the latest upgrade would finally put a mallet on all of these issues, but no such luck.

Skytrack I'm not sure qualifies in the sub $2000 area. Used maybe? I don't own one mainly due to the recurring subscription fee for various levels of access including a charge to play non-skytrack games on the device you paid good money for. Like to play the E6 course you bought and paid for, you need that special license... It's just another layer of BS to deal with, so you buy E6 for a year, pro-rated to your LM, the Skytrak and then you have to be sure that your Skytrack license allows you to play your E6? That's just H (horse) S and very similar to the Rapsodo model. Skytrack gave you a lot but nothing in the way of club data. *Skytrack2 does*. It's putting was luck at best (IMHO). I have not used the new model but I'm sure things have improved some (except the licensing model).

You also have the Flightscope Mevo and Mevo+, which are good in the sim space. It's a radar mostly so the lesson learned from the R10 applies here. I've not played it personally but I've played against many people that do own it in sim competitions. On the receiving end, it seemed pretty realistic to me. It does require some space between the unit and the player and the player and the screen however, it does give a lot of good data. The advanced model has a single camera that is used for putting and game improvement swing movies. The Mevo+ also has the option to view the ball-clubface impact location which is very good for game improvement. It would be interesting to compare Mevo users vs R10 users on ball flight distances.

Oh... almost forgot, you also have the new SwingCaddy (SC4), a radar-based unit that gives a lot of data except It lacks spin and side-spin. I've not used, seen, or heard much about this unit except it's good on the range. I love the bright orange LCD display that offers sun-reflection-proof viewing. Great entry-point price but is not very noticed in the forums (like this one or in the Sim forums). Without the side-spin and spin measures in a sim, ball flight would all be based on club path and face-angle so similar ball flight to the Tittle-X or SLX club attached devices.

If you are lucky you may find a used Foresight GC3 half price which is a pro-level tool if not broken. A good GC2 isn't bad either when used with good ball numbers (just lacking the club data). That is all I can think of currently on the market. If the R10 ever added a camera like Mevo+ and added the club impact location... that would be it, then you could do a good side-spin estimate and get great Sim numbers. You need good software for all of these, E6 Connect, or the other Unspoken of one. TGC2019 is still one of my faves on ES16 with 1000s of courses but much better is out there now. E6 Connect is now a defacto brand to offer on any of the launch monitors. It's what dragged me away from the old 1990s Optishot. Of all things you need to test wedges, chipping, and putting. That is what makes or breaks the sim play and your game improvement.

[Bubba22]

Great stuff Chuck. The only big issues with the MLM2PRO is the connectivity and lack of putting. These will improve. There is a new app update today so will test it out.

[justin962]

Chuck, I seriously can't even begin to thank you enough for your insight. This was incredibly helpful and I find myself in total agreement about the subscription models being total BS, especially just to unlock 3rd party software support. As I feared, there seems to be no clear winner here and like you said, each have their own pro's and con's. Makes for a very difficult decision, considering the price point many of the better options are at.

At the risk of divorce, I've been looking at the Uneekor Eye Mini and Bushnell Launch Pro, but I find myself tilted that even those require subscriptions in order to unlock some features.

Thank you for introducing the Tittle X to me, as that might just be a reasonable stopgap (or the R10) until a new product is released. However, given the direction of the industry, I'm trying to not get my hopes up. Do you know of any options on the horizon that might be worth waiting for?

At the moment I'm considering:

R10
Mevo+ (I see used ones on FB marketplace for around $1000 sometimes)
or biting the bullet and going with a used Skytrak+, Eye Mini, BLP, etc once I can figure out their pay-to-play software differences to determine which one provides the best value. Am I overlooking anything else in your opinion other than a used GC3/GC2?

Main features I'm looking for is club data (club path & face angle), ability to see replays of my impact and/or swing, a good UI experience on the range, and a few courses. I didn't think it'd be so difficult to find, but here we are.

Thank you SO much again for your help. You're a lifesaver and a much needed padding on the wall that I find myself banging my head on, haha!

[Chuck]

Bang for the buck, I think the R10 provides the best experience. It's $599 and that is pretty much all you need. If nothing else, you can just add it to your bag to track your practice at the golf range. It works great with E6 (no putting), Awesome golf, or with some digging, you will find the one that shall not be spoken of, and add putting to it with an external camera and connector software, mark your balls with dots made from cheap aluminum tape to get measure spin and your set up with a full-blown, amazing, and reliable sim on the cheap. As Bubba22 mentioned about the MLM2PRO, it also had a horrible connectivity issue. It would simply lose connection for no reason with the app. That said, it has a good community and has some new third-party support that may get it there. Anyway, for the money you save, you could always go to a 4K gaming projector. Anyway, thanks Bubba22 for comment. The connectivity issues with that device were horrible. Noted. And thanks justin962 for the question. Keep us updated.

[Bubba22]

I have tested the new app for MLM2PRO and so far the connectivity is much, much better.

[Chuck]

Yes sir. That is what I've heard also. You know, something that has really puzzled me about this device is the need for Wi-Fi connectivity. It has Bluetooth 5 LE which can easily carry 1.5+ Mbs with a very small latency (It will link as 'BlueZ 5.0'). Your local network configs as Wi-Fi Point-2-point like a Wi-Fi hotspot configuration or a standard Wi-Fi home network. The mess with connectivity is the LTS data networks of an Apple or Android Phone and the baggage that all brings, specifically, with the need to 'phone-home' for license checks and all the good stuff it brings <sarcasm>. The R10 is simple Bluetooth only which is why it's so reliable. If you want a video of your swing? Then the MLMS2Pro uses might be OK. (I saw that was upgraded as well in the latest app update). Rapsodo has been actively updating the app and improving the 'connectivity' issues. Apparently chipping remains a problematic measurement with the MLM2Pro, but it's been suggested it may simply need a firmware fix to resolve a ball-vision tracking issue. Regardless, the next generation LMs will be fun to watch. They should be out once Rapsodo fixes its issues <grin>.

Right now I do Tournament play with the R10 and the Alleexx putt addon like clockwork, no issues other than being a senior barely getting 210 yards off the tee on a good day. To do that with the MLM2Pro would be a challenge (not the 210 yards, but tournaments played without disconnect :-). Anyway, it's all good.

[Bobbybackspin2]

I've had an Optishot for a couple of years and I'm wanting to upgrade to a different launch monitor / simulator. I'm looking at getting a Skytrak and I'm also wanting to use the GSPro simulator software with it. It looks like I would have to buy the Game improvement software in order to have access to third party simulator software. I found an actual workaround with the API on the skytrak to communicate with the GSPo software. Am I seeing this correctly? That's what my question is and thanks in advance.

[Chuck]

Yeah... advise. I know the MLM2PRO has a workaround using an OCR technique to read the driving range app numbers and feed them into a connector that speaks to a game that shall not be spoken of.
The problem is... ( and it's a really BS problem I'll add) is that the 2D driving range application that is used by the OCR app requires that stupid $200/yr subscription (I think year 1 is up unless Rapsodo extended that by an additional year due to a poor as crap software app). Maybe some deviant will look at Skytrack's practice range app and do something similar which would be cool. My advice to Rapsodo for the MLM2PRO is just to give up the subscription model until you develop a piece of software that is actually worth $200 US dollars a year and not something that cripples the device you're selling.

[MikeL]

Anyone else having issues with the unit picking up shots when you start getting to 93+ mph? I'm fine 7i or shorter at about 92 mph. Once I get the 6i or longer out and it's at 94+, it registers maybe 25% of the shots. Of course, it doesn't register any that I absolutely flush! Getting super frustrated and wishing I hadn't kept this thinking it was OK and would get better. It's getting worse.

[Chuck]

Actually, as I've used the new ESTP version, I can see the improvements in all of the numbers, it seems to be getting data more consistently and accurately. Driver off the tee has no issues at all and spin numbers seem to be spot on. Fairway woods and hybrids are still problematic with fat shots, Irons seem normal. The big improvement has been in the wedges. PW to Lob-W all seem to be more realistic in the numbers and the cross-over to CHP isn't as noticeable as it used to be. Putting has changed somehow because with a soft-faced putters like a Callaway White Hot do not seem to be picked up when putting the short 5ft (or less) putts. It just is not triggering with putters that have plastic inlays on short putts. Before the upgrade, the short shots never missed even with soft clubs. I would love to tweak the audio trigger sensitivity so that it was less sensitive with the woods and more sensitive with the putter. I hope the guys a ES will look into this issue.

[MikeL]

I've been going back and forth with the ES crew with no real improvement. What's weird now is after a shot the light will flash red/green a few times and then go solid green without a ball being present. I have to wave a club in front of the unit a few times for it to go back into flash mode. Is anyone else seeing anything similar?

[YetG08]

I have noticed this as well with the new software update, I changed the EXP setting to 0 and it seems to have solved the issue

[Chuck]

I've seen the green light without a ball too but mainly I noticed it with putting. I'm not sure why, but certainly a bug somewhere.
It's not permanent if you put a ball back in the launch spot. It typically will blink, go red, then back to green. It does have infrared cameras, so something may be reflecting IR. For example, the black cloth of my jeans shows up as white in the infrared. (if the mat was IR reflective like the cloth of my jeans it could blind the cameras). But that's just wild guessing.

[Chuck]

Just a followup on the green light issue. I was working on putting and began to notice some spontaneous misreads while the ball was not moving. It was from the noise of my radio. It actually surprised me. I wonder if that maybe the issue?

[MikeL]

Update on my issues. I sent the unit back to Ernest and they put it through the paces. Josh and the team found issues with it, flashed it, calibrated it, and it's been much better. I still have issues with driver, but I have some black pyramid tees coming that should help with that problem. It took them 6 weeks, but it seems to be better now and registers properly at least 80% of the time, probably more. It still has problems with face & path on less than ideal contact, but I don't think that problem is going away with this unit at the $2,000 price point.

[bencowan]

Hey Mike. What is your driver swing speed? I have a few friends that have 100+ and on the es golf app range it does not miss many at all. When in gspro, it misses a lot and I contacted Josh at ES Sports and here is what he said to try. It does mess with putting though as you have to hit a putt so hard to get it to register and it goes way too far. Here is what he told me to try and it seems to help with driver no-reads for higher swing players:
Since you said that this only occurs for high swing speeds, it is possible that the sound of your swing is triggering the unit too early. Something you can do to help with this is putting a piece of foam in the microphone slot on the front of the unit to help dampen the sound.

[MikeL]

I'm 103-106 mph on most driver swings. That being said, my update after this one is where we found real progress with the driver by using impact stickers. That has rectified most of the driver problems.

[MikeL]

My son and I had a few revelations playing a course today. After about 6 straight chips not registering for me and then 8+ putts not registering where we had to move on to the next hole, he thought it might be the clubs. Sure enough, my wedges are jet black. My putter has a black insert. My driver face is black. We put impact stickers on all of them and instantly they registered. I had a few issues with the putter, so I switched to a putter with a white insert, and that worked every time. I don't truly care about putting because it isn't very reliable in the software so if it's close I'm happy and take auto make/2 putt. After we did that we only had a few shots miss on face & path info, and the others were pretty solid. Face and path not reading is often on a fat shot of if some noise happens at about the same time as the swing. I can live with it at this point. Out of the 80 shots we hit on the back 9 after figuring this out, we took 2 or 3 mulligans where you said there is no way the shot registered properly. That was usually with wedges where they were solid and it somehow registered a swing path of say, 25° O-I and a face angle of 22° open, even though the ball came out dead straight and felt great. The black pyramid tees I ordered from Amazon arrived today as well and those really helped with the driver recognition.