TGC green speed (stimp) measurement

[FaultyClubs]

I did a test today to quantify the exact TGC stimp speed on my system (GC2 - all sliders set to the default of zero).

Stimp is the distance the ball rolls when hit at 4.09 mph (actually 6 ft/sec). So I went onto a flat green (Flat Putting Green Protee by Zmax), activated auto rewind, and repeatedly putted the ball until I got the required ball speed (as indicated in the TGC info screen). The distance rolled (again from the TGC info screen) is the stimp rating of the green in TGC. This turned out to be exactly 6. I believe Protee has stated all the greens are set to the same speed so that means TGC greens stimp at 6.

NOTE: Using different hardware wouldn't affect this since it is measuring the actual stimp speed in TGC.

NOTE 2: It is theoretically possible that other hardware setups require a different actual ball speed IRL in order to get a 4.1 speed in TGC. This would make the greens feel faster or slower than they really are. However there is no reason (other than bugs) for this to happen on any hardware that accurately measures ball speed (ie Skytrak, GC2, Protee with putting sensor etc).

FWIW. I hope this helps.

[Tekbud]

I've been saying ~6 for some time now with Skytrak and TGC so I'm glad someone else could validate it exactly. Thanks.

[Mike80]

Thanks for validating this. Yes, TGC greens are very slow! I have a GC2 and in the GSX interface, under ProTee settings, I adjusted the Putting speed to 6. This seemed to play better. I might increase it more.

Has anyone tested the putting speed adjustment in GSX interface? If so, what is the speed you use? What speed would accurately relate to a 10 stimp?

[goatbarn]

I have mine on....17? Maybe. Just changed it. Feels much better to me. Really didn't know to try this before.

[mthunt]

I have mine set to 16 or 17. It's a good speed.

[goatbarn]

Should have done this awhile ago. Playing back and forth, TGC and PG, the green speeds were killing me on TGC lately. Now they're pretty close.

Making more putts.

[mthunt]

Apparently Protee is giving skytrak guys that adjustment soon. It's pretty crucial.

[V8burble]

Oh, bliss! I also lock horns with goatbarn on PG(ignoring the fact he's a proper golfer) and go back and forth with TGC. Have hated the difference in putting speeds making me reluctant to play TGC and never thought about adjusting this - great work! Will test out tomorrow on the Masters practice round.

[wbond]

So how will this affect tournaments if people have different settings or are able to change them in their settings?

[Mike80]

The green speed doesn't change so all players are playing same green conditions. The ball will role the same on all your shots landing on the green.

The interface lets you change your putting speed. So again the green speed is the same. What changes is the power of your putting hitting stroke. This allows users to change to fit the best feel for them. This setting is a must for playing TGC. Otherwise greens are way too slow. Hopefully Skytrak users have this setting soon.

[FaultyClubs]

People already can boost their drivers, change forgiveness settings, turn off wind, take Mulligan's etc. Plus people play with different systems some of which don't even measure curvature. So the playing field isn't level anyway. I don't think putting speed is much different. The tournament's are just for fun, people play what feels right i guess.

[mthunt]

It's always been in the rules since we started 2 seasons ago that only 5% boost or reduction in spin is allowed. Putting speed is only personal preference. If you look back at 2 year old threads you'll see the rule allowing putting speed. Anyone doing boost or forgiveness is a dirty cheater. If someone wants to win something meaningless enough to cheat then they can have my congratulations because they are a loser.

[TeaPeg]

There can be no doubt that people will be cheating because that's what people do. Seems crazy that things are set up to 'allow' people to do so. Why not simply remove things like boost etc and unlimited mulligans in tournaments?

[Mickey]

You're right. But how do we deal with phantom shots or misreads? My setup functions perfectly so I don't have to worry about any of that. My scores are truly my scores. But imagine if you had a setup that is prone to misreads and phantom shots? You would definitely want to rewind those.

I think everyone playing TGC tournaments should play with the assumption that one day the rewind will be disabled. If your scores suddenly jump 5-10 strokes higher after the change - we'll all know you cheated.

[McBogga]

We did some testing in the TGC video-game and max speed in game is about a 10 on the stimp, but the physics are slightly off for slopes, the ball "trickles" on borderline slopes in game where it would stop IRL. I think this is because they do not simulate the uneven surface or ball sinking into the grass when slowing up enough which increases friction. It's noticeable when trying to replicate real greens in game as some pins become impossible.

[goodmatt78]

This seems really low. I have SynLawn Precision put turf in my sim which has a stimp of 10. I have a cup set out at 8 ft and use it to gauge all my putts in TGC. This means I always aim for the cup and change my aimpoint in the software. Anyway, I find 10ft putts are almost exactly equal to me making the putt in my actual cup. So, that mean TGC is greater than 10 for me.

My home course runs 11.5 and TGC distances seem quite similar in pace.

[Mike80]

goodmatt78 Are you using a Skytrak and saying TGC green putting speeds are accurate? The greens are set at a fixed speed for TGC tournaments. They have been very slow. Above I think someone tested and found the greens to be about a 6 on Stimp reading. Using GC2 and GSX interface I changed putting speed to 16. Now it feels more accurate to a true 10 Stimp.

[Boo Radley]

Lucky I read this, changed putting speed to 17 just before Masters, feels much better. Putts less than 15' are most noticeable. now rolls close to my birdieball mat.

[kinitex@gmail.com]

We did some testing in the TGC video-game and max speed in game is about a 10 on the stimp, but the physics are slightly off for slopes, the ball "trickles" on borderline slopes in game where it would stop IRL. I think this is because they do not simulate the uneven surface or ball sinking into the grass when slowing up enough which increases friction. It's noticeable when trying to replicate real greens in game as some pins become impossible.

Where are you guys changing putting speed? All I see is green speeds in the course editor, but even changing that to zero and re-publishing my course its still listed as medium green speeds. I have some very slopey greens on my course which are practically unplayable with how the ball rolls on slopes in this game.