New Simulator Planned in UK

[Sevvy]

First off as this is my first post I would like to say that this forum is a total inspiration and has really got me excited about installing a sim at home.

By way of background I have a 3 car garage which I am converting into a single garage for my sports car and the other two into a gym, well that was the original plan until I decided I needed a golf sim!

The room dimensions are circa 5.7m L x 5.1m W and 2.6m H. I am concerned about the height so we are going back to the council planners to ask to raise to 3m. I live in a listed building so need planning approval for anything. It will be difficult to dig down but not impossible as I live in a high water table area.

My golf coach measured the top arc of my driver swing at 2.4m so 2.6 is possible but tight, especially if my friends come over, which they will want to! I am only 5 foot 7!

I intend to build my own wooden frame for sim sides, cover in carpet/foam underlay and use curtain baffles for the ceiling, screen on angle irons.

Flush fit mat into putting turf for the sim area and wooden floor surrounding it.

I will go 16:10 and suspect I will end up with a circa 4-4.5m screen.

I have demo’ed the following:

SkyTrak
GC2/HMT
GCQuad
TM4

I am fairly clear on most aspects of the build except the actual simulator unit.

If I really don’t have any budget left after rebuilding the garage (it needs new roof, insulation, doors, windows, electrics, aircon/heat etc so is not just an internal sim fit out) I will obviously go SkyTrak.

But my golf coach has just got in TM4 and I was really impressed with the software and the ability to video my swing and see it immediately on the screen to look at positions etc. Also the ability to share this on the cloud with my coach looks like a brilliant way to get feedback when he is not with me.

I also really liked FSX.

Skytrak is amazing for the price but I really look for club data when I am practising and the delay would annoy me.

I have watched every video I can on TM4/GCQuad and can see that both have their shortcomings, I have also read various posts about Foresight in the UK and am torn between which to go for.

I will not use TM4 outdoor, at least not initially as my golf club have a TM4 and Flightscope and I am not spending the addition £4K on the outdoor software. TM say I have enough depth from unit to ball and ball to screen.

My concern is over the supposed spin axis differences between the 2 units and TM4’s indoor putting as I will play rounds on the sim. My coach has a huge area and his TM4 will sit further back than mine.

Additionally whilst FSX is good it is a high one off cost here at circa £3k plus additional courses are expensive, whilst TM software is bundled into the unit price and then £700 per year after year 1. I can also integrate TGC if I don’t like TM’s JNPG.

GCQuad is locked to FSX.

So in summary if I felt I could trust TM4 indoors I think that I would go for this but it seems that many feel GCQuad or even GC2/HMT is better indoors.

My concern with GC2/HMT indoors to open up game playing options is that Foresight stop supporting future developments into GC2.

So I am sure this has been done to death and is probably covered in the gazillions of posts and videos I have watched but I am probably more torn than ever, especially if my coach has TM4, I use GCQuad and I see more of a draw bias and change my swing, get to a lesson and see less of a draw bias on TM4 and just end up chopping and changing to satisfy the shot the unit is showing.

Maybe in this sense I should replicate what my coach is using?

Any thoughts/comments/advice greatly appreciated.

Once I start the Sim I will post up my progress with pictures.

[Dave Archibold]

Hello Sevvy

We are the exclusive agents for the ProTee systems in the UK. Firstly please check out https.proteeuk.co.uk. I would like to invite you along for a demo with Jamie who is a PGA pro who can really show you how accurate the system is. With club head and ball data the ProTee system is one of the most cost effective and accurate systems on the market today.

The ProTee uses a floor sensor mat with over 100 optical sensors which captures all the club head data such as club speed / angle / in to out path / sweet spot giving very accurate data of how the club contacts with the ball. The first row of sensors are the ball track which capture the flight of the ball.

Added to the system are 2 high speed cameras that follow the balls flight path which all adds up to a very accurate golf simulator which robust and the software is very easy to use.

Included is a putting mat sensor which allows accurate putting and is far the best simulated putting on the market.

Also accommodates both right and left handed players without having the move equipment from side to side.

We can advice with your design and build and don't forget backup and support comes free of charge and no ongoing software costs.

[StalefishFS3]

Sevvy,

I just became a member of the forum, but have been lurking for quite a while. I am also doing extensive research on a home golf simulator, and have spent many many hours reading and saving materials to try and determine what system is best for me. Here is what I found is the biggest overall problem:

There is simply not enough accurate or "full disclosure" from these various manufacturers as to what data they actually measure versus what is calculated. Let me give just an example found on one manufacturer's website:

Regarding club data: "As you swing, we capture your club head speed, path and face angle". So what does this mean when they use "capture"? Is it measured? Is it calculated? This vague and clever language is pretty common for most of these "high end" systems, with the following exceptions:

Skytrak - very clear on what they are measuring vs. calculating, and the limitations of the system.

Foresight (GC2/HMT & GCQuad): clear on their website what is measured vs. calculated, and for club head measurements what you need to do for most accurate data (one or four dots on club face).

Trackman: pretty clear on what is measured and calculated, and there is a ton of information on these boards and others that you can access.

These clear and transparent disclosures go a long way with me. Leo Mode on this forum has done the most extensive testing of various systems on this forum as far as I can tell, and i would encourage you to read every one of his posts. Dax, another poster, has done a lot of work. There are others, so I am not meaning to leave anyone out, but they are two of the prominent ones. I wish there was a one-stop shop for a comparison of all these systems as to the data they measure vs. the data they calculate.

So to try and answer some of your questions based on my knowledge of the systems via my research:

Golfzon: First, Leo Mode has done a great write up of Golfzon, and it can be found on this forum. I'd rely on that. From a personal perspective, I have played on two different Golfzon systems in my hometown, and have found them lacking. Fun, but lacking. Very arcade like, which I do not want. Here is a sample from the PGA 2019 show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOzDAKWoeDE

So if you like driving ranges with balloons hovering above, this could be they system for you. Another funny video from PGA 2019 was this guy. Go to 1:05 on the video where he says this: "Golfzon is a little different. I cannot say it is accurate ... because it is not. But it is fun!" So if that is your jam, then you can consider this system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Y_Xz1iUSw

Full Swing: I have no experience with these systems, but I will say that the conversations I have had with various people re: simulators, Full Swing has often come up (unprompted by me) to have significant issues, from accuracy to issues with the camera system to just overall build quality. I still can't figure out what they measure vs. calculate. As a side note, here is a funny video of someone with a Full Swing system - granted it is only one person, but funny nonetheless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSgi2D01Vo8

ProTee: I know nothing about this system, but I see someone from ProTee has posted in this thread in your home country, so I would encourage you to ask the right questions if you are interested in their system. In short, no pros or cons from me.

From my perspective, I currently have a Skytrak I bought used at a really good deal, and I really like it. I don't really notice the delay and it doesn't bother me. BUT, I will say if and when I upgrade to a GCQuad (I'm leaning that way vs. Trackman, but not quite sure yet), it is likely once you get used to no delay, going back to a delay would be annoying. If I do upgrade, I probably will keep my SkyTrak simply for the ability to play TGC2019. But I have read on these forums that FSX2018 is pretty darn good too, just more expensive and the courses after the initial 6 course purchase are "a la carte".

If it comes down to Trackman 4 vs. GCQuad for you, Leo Mode gave me some good advice: "Whatever decision you make, you can't go wrong with either system". So that did help, and now it is just going to come down to personal preference.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

[Sevvy]

Taking the time to put together your reply.

The more more I think about it the more confused I get and at £2k I can’t go wrong with SkyTrak.

This video has me leaning towards Quad over TM4 but I really like TM’s camera system and the ability to view my swing.

[Sevvy]

[Dax]

I recall seeing that video an there is a few things to be aware of. l like Ian a lot and trust a lot that he has to say, but early on in his YouTube channel he reveals that he has a connection with Foresite. Also this video provides nothing in terms of a comparison like what Leo has done. With that said, Ian knows what he is saying and what he is looking for and being a fitter he needs certain information that TM just could not give at the time the video was shot. in other videos that Ian has one on his channel, he does give more insight into his views on TM and those views agree with what I believe Leo has found, which then backs Some of the things said in this video.

I believe the latest TPS release for April should help, but again I would hold off until Leo has had a chance to do some testing(actually hoping that he will).

Also, if you have time to wait, why not also wait for Unikeer?

in terms of TM in a garage, I would also ask them if the have resolved the metal garage door issue in terms of the interference it causes for the unit picking up the ball? This was an issue for me a number of years ago. If they have not, then don’t hit into a net that has the metal garage door behind it, but flip things around.

[LEO MODE]

I had a great time talking with Ian at TXG and his ties with Foresight was very high that he trusted the carry inflation on GC Quad. He thought that having a 300 less RPM on his spin would all of a sudden gain 15 yds further on Matt's swing in his video. So just throwing that out. I still think he's a great guy but he's tied with Foresight heavily at this moment.

I also personally can't wait until the new April firmware comes out. Putting will still be limited because that's not their priority at the moment, so for the time being the gimme recommendation is at least 10ft. Lastly, if for mainly indoor sim use, I would also recommend Foresight still because it captures putt perfectly. No stress over short putt.

[Sevvy]

My garage is being converted in to one garage for my classic car and the other two into a dedicated area with no garage doors, it will be properly insulated to full UK building regs and have a window and large sliding doors. So no issues with metal interfering with Radar.

I have contacted Uneekor and no UK installers currently planned, there is a German installer/supplier but they are wanting to do everything. Cost is therefore not far off Quad and me DIY’ing some of it.

I would prefer a unit I could take to the range/golf club and avoid using the golf clubs units which would cost me £50 an hour at least.

I have a few months (likely 6) so in no hurry. I will have had then at least 6 months to use my coaches new TM4’s. He has 3 in his set up.

Thanks to those so far who have responded.

[Sevvy]

An update.

So planning took another 7 months to come through and we will be starting the rebuild works in the NY.

Got the roof height raised to 3meters which results in an internal height of 2.8 in the hitting area.

Picked up a CPO QCQuad with full putting software from Foresight and an Alienware PC in a Black Friday deal from an online firm that sells returned HP stock with slight blemishes. Saved £1300 on that and just over £3k on the Quad.

I sold my track car and have now decided not to have a garage so have the full 8m x 5m space available for my gym/sim.

This really tempted me to use TM4 but would have meant my sim orientation was fixed to using the longer length and this really restricted the other space. So bit the bullet and got the Quad.

Was also going to build my own enclosure from ply and cover in carpet but think now that I’ll either get a rod based frame system so it can be moved easily or just use a screen and heavy duty curtains on track that can be slid back.

Pretty much decided on a Truestrike mat but need to decide whether to use a rubber gym floor everywhere and put the mat on top or segregate the sim area with putting turf and mat on top. If I use rubber I would get a putting mat for practise, would love a tilting Zen green!

Need to pick up a projector.

Would prefer HD so I can watch films. So many different projectors and it’s very confusing. Will ceiling mount above/slightly behind me so suspect I’ll need a short/ultra short throw.

Screenwise it’ll be Par2Pro SQ.

Size wise I will have circa 2.6m height so looking at say 16.10 with a 2.5m screen image gets me 4 m width I think?

Any projector recommendations gratefully received and also enclosure/curtain ideas.

I hope to have the whole building clad in Shou Sugi Ban (charted cedar cladding) with minimal windows, green roof and inside shadow gap detailing with lighting.

A nice modern building.

Gym equipment will likely be a Waterrower, Wattbike Atom and maybe a Rogue rack and weights, although I might stick with a TRX system and kettlebells instead of the Rogue stuff.

If I have space I’ll put a desk in there for when I work from home and a sofa behind the hitting area for movie watching.

I can’t wait.