Club VS Ball Data

[Bubba22]

Just want to create some discussion regarding club vs ball data in golf simulators. What would one prefer if they had to chose between them. Obviously the gold standard would be to have both but which one do you guys prefer?

Personally I would prefer club data which will allow me to groove my swing with respect to the 2 most important things club path and clubface angle. Knowing the angle of attack is the other valuable information. Ball data is great however for me it is secondary compared to these club data.
Thoughts????

[Maverick]

I prefer club data myself. Much easier to work on your swing with club DT IMO.

But yes, let's have both.

[cvclub]

I agree w/you.....club data gives me the feedback to see if my practice is effective. I will say that AOA would be great because it has such a effect on the golf shot. I have been addressing this since my trackman session last March and it can have very dramatic results!

[Bubba22]

Angle of Attack (AOA) would be great to have. ProTee tries to calculate if but it's not truly measured so is not as accurate. Next question I what order of club data is most important?

[Libbing]

Club data is most important to me - I have a tendency to come over the top with an outside to in swing causing the pull-draw, or have an out-to-in swing but have a closed club face, causing a similar pull draw; but it's hard to figure out from looking at the ball flight whether it's the swing path or club face issue since the ball flight is very similar with both mistakes. So swing path and face angle is critical for my currently observed issues

[Bubba22]

I tend to agree Lib. My tendancy is coming to much inside with a closed clubface. That causes a draw but with my closed face and strong grip, I occasionally get quick and snappy happens. Club data really shows this for me.

[jhp016s]

For me the most important thing is clubface. Before I got my protee I always thought my misses (mostly left) were caused by my swing path but in reality once I saw the face data (sometimes upwards of 7-8 degrees closed when I first got it) I realized what I needed to work on. My path is pretty good anywhere from 2 deg inside to straight. After 2 years with protee I am much more consistent off the tee and with approaches due to this feedback.

[cvclub]

I am curious Bubba, why are you asking about this? It appears that we have the best of both worlds now,right? If I could have AOA I would even prefer that over spin data....

FYI, had a guest this week and he was a very strong player but he cam way from the inside and the PT was a sobering mirror for him!

[Bubba22]

No reason, just to create some discussion. There are some sims that measure just ball data. There are launch monitors like Foresight GC2, Accusport Vector and others I am sure in the works that just have ball data. Not that its bad to not have the club data but there is a nice bonus to have it vs nothing. It is very difficult to determine if the problem of a hook is more the club face vs clubpath vs both based just on ball data. Protee measures all ball data except spin (it estimates total spin and determines spin axis from club data) however Protee spin measurement will change in the near future.

[bcgc0918]

I consider the club data the most important. For beginners it is priceless. For the more experienced it allows for grooving the swing to achieve draws and fades. Without it, its all just trial and error. IMO the ball data (that we get) X and Y are only good for ensuring that the game is as realistic as it can be. They both have their place. Some may say ball and some may say club, but one without the other makes for a lot of guesses that some call calculations. IMO the fewer guesses we have, the closer we are to a true round of golf when there is 2 feet of snow outside.

[Bubba22]

Tom you make some great points. Ball and club data are both important for accurate simulation. If one could measure club and ball data then it should increase the sim accuracy. For understanding why the ball did what it did and grooving draws and fades, then club data is important.

[Jsgregg]

As a high handicap player, I'll tell you what is important to me. I need to know my club path and face angle. I would also like to accurately know where the ball is going. I don't need to know the spin numbers...honestly they would mean nothing to me. I would like a best of both worlds system. A Protee that would show me all my club path/face angle data maybe combined with something like the new Flightscope Xi. The way I understand it, the Xi won't give you the numbers, but will show you where the ball is going. I also understand that the Xi will only be compatible with mobile devices, so unless that changes, I guess this won't happen.

It is ideal to me though, as someone who is trying to get better.

[Bubba22]

John the ProTee system has 2 cameras that will track the ball just like the Flightscope. They are finicky for some to setup but with them there is really no need for the Flightscope. A new launch monitor add on would be great however!

[Jsgregg]

I'll be honest, after reading about camera setup difficulties here and elsewhere, it's intimidating. A launch monitor would be ideal, wouldn't it.

[Maverick]

Yes, a LM would be cool if you don't have to deal with both left and right handed golfers. I do unfortunately.

Accurate club data feedback will allow you to make changes to your swing much quicker than ball data alone.