Club VS Ball Data

[Bubba22]

Just want to create some discussion regarding club vs ball data in golf simulators. What would one prefer if they had to chose between them. Obviously the gold standard would be to have both but which one do you guys prefer?

Personally I would prefer club data which will allow me to groove my swing with respect to the 2 most important things club path and clubface angle. Knowing the angle of attack is the other valuable information. Ball data is great however for me it is secondary compared to these club data.
Thoughts????

[Jsgregg]

Now this is just me, and isn't right for everybody. But if I choose not to use the sensor mat and cant get club data, it is okay. The only thing I REALLY want to see is accurate ball flight. I will figure out the rest. But again, that is just me. Same thing for spin numbers...they don't mean anything to me. Again, just want to see accurate ball flight.

[Bubba22]

Club vs ball data is always a good topic http://www.proteegolfonline.com/index.php/forum/golf-simulator-general/59-club-vs-ball-data

[HWoods]

I'll be honest, after reading about camera setup difficulties here and elsewhere, it's intimidating. A launch monitor would be ideal, wouldn't it.

This. I dont like the idea of changing settings to try and replicate your "true" shots when my shots change from day to day.

Ideally you want both but there is no current affordable option at this time. HMT is so overpriced its actually insulting, and other products aren't much better. I see everyone's point on improving with club data though, especially path, face and AOA. That said I think a true ballflight is the most important. So I'll go with the minority and say ball data is more important.

[passero]

I agree (I guess with the minority) that the most important thing to me is ball data. Actually, I don't even see why anyone wouldn't want accurate ball data first and foremost. It's what dictates the ball flight!

I want accurate and complete ball data so that I know the ball flight is accurate. Yes, I know it's only as accurate as the ball flight algorithms used by the software to determine ball flight, but hopefully those physics are pretty well figured out, and very close to actual.

Any club data beyond that is great, but only good for telling me "why" the ball did what it did. Club data without any ball data (especially spin) isn't very useful in my opinion, as the ball flight will only be accurate if it's a center strike, and the AoA is somewhat level.

If the club data included all the D-Plane measurements, then I'd have more confidence in the ball flight as radar devices have taught us that a lot more than club face, path, speed go into what makes the ball do what it does.

My opinion, of course. So I'll be waiting patiently for an affordable ball measuring device to come out this year. Kind of bummed that the target is "hopefully this quarter". Thought this was an almost-out-the-door product. Oh well.

How about another question about the mystery device?...

Will this device be standalone operable? Meaning, will it need simulation software or will it function as a standalone launch monitor, maybe with simple software on a PC/tablet that shows numbers...etc.?

[Bubba22]

There is no better ball data than hitting on the driving range and seeing your ball flight. Thats the cheapest and easiest way to see your true ball flight. Many people practice over and over on the range making the same mistakes. Usually it will take lessons, video capture etc to see what swing flaws that one has that is producing that bad ball flight. If you are an experienced golfer and can figure out what you are doing wrong then just ball data is ok.

[Maverick]

Please post your LM question in it's thread.

There seems to be some misconceptions here. If it's a choice between the P3pro/Optishot's club/Swingbyte's club data vs. GC2's ball data, the answer is obvious. Also, the Protee is more of a hybrid system. Folks sometimes forget that without the cameras, the Protee's simulation won't be anywhere near as realistic as it is now.

As for accurate and complete ball data, well, there is no perfect indoor device out there that will give you 98-99% accuracy all the time. That includes GC2, AboutGolf, etc...

[mthunt]

The GC2 shows direction and spin based on direction. Wouldn't L6 & R1000 = outside in swing path with face open thus showing club data?

[Maverick]

The GC2 shows direction and spin based on direction. Wouldn't L6 & R1000 = outside in swing path with face open thus showing club data?

I think I understand your question now.

With initial ball path of L6 degree, the club face must have been closed(right handed golfer) at impact in relationship to the GC2's target line. The side spin of 1000 rpms to the right(for a right handed golfer) mostly likely meant the club was outside-in.

Basically, the shot was a pulled slice/fade due to an outside-in swing with a closed face.

[HWoods]

I can aim my baseline left and swing in to out with a face further right and produce the same shot. No way to know the swing path with gc2.

[Maverick]

I was assuming a square setup.

[HWoods]

I was assuming a square setup.

ya fair enough. Just illustrating that theres no way to know club data. That's one huge plus of Protee, I'd love to see that data without having to pay 6k.

[Cklguy2013]

I definitely agree with the majority that club data is more important for learning and instructional purpose. For years I've practiced outside and pulled the ball and never really known why, with an understanding of the new ball flight laws and club data, I'm now able to focus on the relationship between path and face angle to truly address the issue. Ball flight of course is great for simulation play, and in the perfect world we all like to have both club and ball data.. maybe someday..

[Dax]

It is possible to have both, it is just a little pricey. I paid the price and am able to get both and it has really improved my practice. You just need to know and accept the limitations of each system. I have the same issue as you regarding swing path and so I use my TM to help identify those times I fall back to my bad habits. I still revert to my instructor for fixes and she lets me know what to look for in my practice session in terms of data.

[Maverick]

Same story here. There was a time when I really needed club path data. But now, with more experience and a better understanding of the golf swing and my own swing, I can make changes on the course. I rarely go to the range anymore. But, it's nice to have that club data if I need to check on things.