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  • High speed swing analysis camera setup

    I just finished up adding 2 high speed cameras to my garage golf sim (here's my original sim build). One cam is capturing side view and the other is capturing overhead. The swing captures trigger on the sound of the ball being hit and automatically play in slow motion on my side tv. I was able to get virtually no blurring on the club head and ball.

    Here's a look at my father in law hitting and the swing replays that got captured: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVMW7QyRIvQ

    Below are the details of the setup and some lessons learned to hopefully help others...

    CAMERA SPECS
    Here's a link to the cams. The cams can do 120fps at 1280x720 or 260fps at 640x360. I found the 120fps at 1280x720 was much clearer. I went into this project thinking fps were the key to getting clear swings without motion blur, but it's not really. High fps are important for having a smooth swing to analyze in slow motion, but getting the motion blur out has to do with opening up the camera shutter speed. In theory you can get rid of motion blur at 30fps just as easily, you'd just has less frames to see so it would jump more in the video and you could miss exactly where contact is happening. I was on a budget for this part of my project so I couldn't invest in super high end cameras but these surprised me with how nice they work. The price was $75 per camera. The same camera is sold with a case but I could only find it at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33017488541.html so I won't get those for another few weeks based on shipping times out of China.

    SOFTWARE
    I'm using Kinovea for the swing captures and replays. It's free and it's awesome! The software allows me to trigger the captures when a certain sound decibel level is reached (i.e., sound of a ball being struck). You can specify a delay as well which allows me to get the 1 second before that ball was struck and then it will automatically end the capture after a specified time (i.e. 0.5-1 second). After the swings are captured they are automatically replayed in slow motion. I bought a small lavalier mic from Amazon to run from my laptop to the hitting area to pick up the ball strike sound. It does a good job of just picking up the ball strike and not false triggering when people are talking loudly. The mic sits about 1 foot from where the ball is hit.

    I am running the camera software on a separate laptop from my gaming pc that handles the TGC2019 sim. I did this because I was worried about the captures eating up too much CPU and causing the simulator software performance to suffer. My laptop is also easier to hook up to my side tv that i'm showing the replays on. I already had this side tv mounted for watching sports games while I golf, so it was already in the perfect spot for this project.

    If you're using Kinovea, the settings I used for my overhead cam to get no motion blur were -12 exposure, full gain, ~50 brightness, ~12 contrast.

    LIGHTING
    Lighting was my biggest lesson learned. Getting clear video with no motion blur has everything to do with having enough lighting. I originally had a small 500 lumen light over my hitting area, which worked perfect in a non-camera world for my sim but no where close to workable with high speed cams. In order to reduce and get rid of motion blur I needed to open up the Exposure setting of the cams in Kinovea (I gather that's roughly equivalent to opening up the shutter speed) and that made my hitting area basically pitch black in my first video test. I needed more light, a lot more light. My worry was adding too much light and washing out the projected image on the impact screen. I came across an article from GungHoGolf and it was extremely helpful for what to do, https://gunghogolf.com/articles/indo...video-lighting. I mimic'd their setup of track lighting, building custom snoots around the lights to direct the light down and reduce light spread. I used 5 of the 3000 lumen bulbs they suggested, giving me a total of 15,000 lumens of light. I've heard other sources suggest even more lumens than that being recommended, but it worked for my purposes. Originally I tried getting similar bulbs but from a different brand from Home Depot but it was a fail. The Home Depot ones would flicker in high speed with the camera's shutter speed up. Those specific bulbs that GungHoGolf recommended were much better and don't flicker for me. The small amount of flicker I can notice in my videos appear to be from the projector light in the background, but it's fairly minimal in slow motion. The lighting cost more than I originally planned. In total it was around $250 for the track, light fixtures, lights, and misc materials for the snoots.
    TGC 2019 Published Courses:
    • Sanctuary Lake MI (L)
    • Pine Trace MI (L)
    • Deyer National Golf Club
    • Deyer Island Golf Resort
    • Sylvan Glen MI (L)

  • #2
    Great job. Do you happen to have another close up video showing the overhead replay? Do you think you with a different camera or lens that you could get a closer video top down that would be more zoomed in to the club/ball impact area? I would love to get something similar to the video that QED/eyexo offers showing the club through the ball at impact. BTW, are you in Mi? I see you've done some courses near me.

    Comment


    • rdeyer
      rdeyer commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes I'm in SE Michigan (Troy). Those 3 Michigan courses are the closest ones to me so I had to make them! Where are you located?

    • wbond
      wbond commented
      Editing a comment
      rdeyer I'm in Livonia. I have two of these cameras, do you think they can be adjusted to get the image that you are seeing? I have a spare computer that I could use to try the overhead image of ball/club capture if you think they could work. The height is about 8-9ft above my mat. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
      Last edited by wbond; 01-11-2022, 10:02 PM.

    • rdeyer
      rdeyer commented
      Editing a comment
      Those cams are only 30 fps. You may be able to get motion blur out with the right environment but you wouldn't be able to get a smooth slow mo. I think 120fps (or higher) is really the target. Also if you have the 5-50mm version from that link you'd have to be pretty far back. I think something like a 2.8mm is more common based on available space in a sim.

  • #3
    How far away from the golfer are the cameras mounted? In my set up, I only have about 5'0-6'0 or so to my side (for caddie view) and about 8'0 behind me. Could these cameras work in that situation?

    Comment


    • pathfindr
      pathfindr commented
      Editing a comment
      If you have a DLP projector, it will flicker as DLP cycles through red, blue, and green colors for the image. See my video where you will see the color cycling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDazmplL2YY If you have a LCD projector, you won't have this problem.

    • Tom Howarth
      Tom Howarth commented
      Editing a comment
      pathfindr - does the "flickering" bother you when you watch the playback?

    • pathfindr
      pathfindr commented
      Editing a comment
      Doesn't bother me. A lot of time, I don't even have the projector on if I'm working on the swing. I have a 55inch TV that I use for replay.

  • #4
    This post is well timed for me and is VERY close to my current setup and status . A few questions I'd REALLY appreciate your help with when you have a chance as I'm struggling to dial it in.

    - Kinovea/Camera Questions:
    - What are you camera settings? I'm struggling with a grainy picture and blurry clubhead throughout the swing and I have no idea how to tweak properly. I'm flailing here and not familiar enough on how to tweak properly within the software. Frankly my Iphone has outperformed by cameras to this point so I know im doing it wrong....

    I got these camera https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which seem close to what you bought. These have been suggested on this board in a few spots. Is there a way to adjust the camera settings in the computer (not Kinovea)? They dont have a dedicated software or anything. How do I adjust the shutter speed? IF you answered just one question please make it this one!

    - I have face on and down the line cameras. I have dual record on one instance and dual playback on a second Kinovea instance. The playback isn't perfectly synced as the two videos have slightly different lengths. It's driving me nuts. One video is like 3.067 and the other is 3.168 seconds. Not sure how to fix this or why it's happening?

    - What file type do you use for recording? I couldnt get the MP4 to play on my computer so I'm using AVI which I haven't a clue what the consequences of choosing the type are? Any suggestions on the available options?



    Lighting:
    - Using one of these. Thinking about added a second https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    - What did you use for your custom snoots?


    Thank you very much!!!

    Comment


    • rdeyer
      rdeyer commented
      Editing a comment
      After you setup a capture in Kinovea there is a small wrench icon to click to specify the camera settings

    • kirkemg
      kirkemg commented
      Editing a comment
      just following up here it's because mine says focus instead of gain? not sure why but that's why I dont see gain.

      What settings do you use in the "device property pages" section?

    • preludesam
      preludesam commented
      Editing a comment
      He is talking about the wrench icon at the top of the capture screen. It should be listing your FPS, Resolution, and Throughput at the top of the capture screen. You can left-click this information and change the camera settings. If this is not available then you will need to use the camera manufactures SDK to adjust the camera settings and save them. Most likely Kinovea will not be able to access the camera with the SDK open so make sure you change the SDK settings and save then open Kinovea.

  • #5
    Looking at the Ali Express listing and cannot decide between the 2.8mm - 12mm zoom or whether I should go with the 4mm or 6mm. My very amateurish photography background says that prime lenses of one focal length are oftentimes sharper than a zoom lens. In your experience however, would it be easier to use the camera with the zoom?

    Comment


    • rdeyer
      rdeyer commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm not very experienced in this area. I wanted the flexibility to adjust the zoom. I'll find out in a few weeks and will report back is clarity is just as good. Fingers crossed.

    • pathfindr
      pathfindr commented
      Editing a comment
      You want a wide angle lens (2.8mm or even lower) to minimize the distance from the camera. If you go with 4mm or longer lens, you will most likely need to place the cameras 12 to 15 ft or farther away to capture the entire swing.

  • #6
    Originally posted by pauly99 View Post
    Looking at the Ali Express listing and cannot decide between the 2.8mm - 12mm zoom or whether I should go with the 4mm or 6mm. My very amateurish photography background says that prime lenses of one focal length are oftentimes sharper than a zoom lens. In your experience however, would it be easier to use the camera with the zoom?
    Thank you very much!

    Comment


    • #7
      Pathfindr, Thanks for the information. So going down to 2.8mm it is.

      Comment


      • rdeyer
        rdeyer commented
        Editing a comment
        ++ to knowledge from Pathfindr. His YouTube video on showing a blur free club / ball (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDazmplL2YY) were very helpful in driving which cams I bought and what settings I used for them in Kinovea. I love the knowledge sharing from this whole community.

    • #8
      Just ordered a single camera from AliExpress. The 2.8mm -12mm version. Might have to wait a month to get it but I'm sure it will be a nice addition to the golf sim.
      Plus my swing can use all the help it can get.

      Comment


      • #9
        I have two issues with Kinovea maybe someone here can help? I cannot post on the Kinovea forum as posts are disabled...
        1. I have a 2 camera setup using the ELP camera linked above, the problem I am having after the shot, the replay screen is updated but only one of the videos plays, the other is paused, I have to hit the dual control play button and then they both play. Has this happened to anyone else? Did you find a solution?
        2. I have created a .bat file to start 2 instances of Kinovea, using command line commands to specify which workspace to use for each instance. I have also tried to make 2 bat files one for each instance but same result, I have also tried to save one workspace as default and use the bat file for the 2nd instance, but the default workspace never seems to load... is there a box I need to click to make it load the default?

        @echo off
        cd C:\Program Files\Kinovea
        start Kinovea.exe -name Capture -workspace capture.xml

        start Kinovea.exe -name Replay -workspace playback.xml

        exit
        It seems to work fine except it only loads the images of one camera, the other camera seems to load as I can see the fps, mbs and load numbers but no image comes up, I have to fiddle with it a bunch to get the 2nd camera to show... basically I have to delete that capture window and drag the camera in a few times then it finally shows.
        Any ideas?

        Once I get it set, the whole rig works flawlessly. Just a bit of fiddling to get started, and of course having to press the dual control play button, not the end of the world, just a small annoyance.

        Comment


        • pathfindr
          pathfindr commented
          Editing a comment
          If your 2 cameras have the same name, the workspace will only load the video from one camera. Change the name of cameras so they have different names, the 2 videos will load correctly. I think it's a Kinovea bug.

        • rdeyer
          rdeyer commented
          Editing a comment
          Where do you change the camera name?

        • pathfindr
          pathfindr commented
          Editing a comment
          To change the camera name, from the Camera page, right click on the name of the camera. There is an option to rename the it.

      • #10
        If your 2 cameras have the same name, the workspace will only load the video from one camera. Change the name of cameras so they have different names, the 2 videos will load correctly.

        To change the camera name, from the Camera page, right click on the name of the camera. There is an option to rename it. See screenshot.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #11
          pauly99 I am looking to purchase the same camera from aliexpress, curious about your experiences with them.

          Comment


          • pauly99
            pauly99 commented
            Editing a comment
            It works well for me. Wish I had two for different points of view. The one thing I will say is you need plenty of light (natural is better) and what overhead light you may have (ie in a garage or shed) may cause flickering.

        • #12
          So I've been using this setup for a while, but have a few issues that I can't figure out that drive me nuts:

          1) The two EL-P cameras look different, even with the same settings. The colors and focus are a bit different, and I don't know if it's a bad sensor, general QC, or software issue. Not the biggest deal - but one is definitely a bit more dark and blue than the other

          2) The same darker, bluer camera seems to lose focus occasionally, and I can't quite get it to focus again. I literally just spent an hour trying to adjust the position, focus rings, settings, etc - nothing will bring the image back into focus. It's still usable, but just a bit blurry. Really frustrating.

          Any idea how to force the camera to refocus (if that's even an option)? Using Kinovea btw.

          Comment


          • #13
            I think I figured out thr specific problem here for anyone who cares. The lenses that come on the El P cameras are a little funky as they don't quite match up. What I mean by this is that when zoomed all the way out - the focus can't quite accommodate the level of zoom at my distance - so it takes a tiny adjustment to get things sharp since you get no autofocus help.

            Comment


            • #14
              What height did you mount your cameras? Also would you mind sharing details of where you mounted the lights in relation to the projector? Photo would be nice if you don’t mind.
              Last edited by coblue; 01-13-2024, 06:11 PM.

              Comment


              • #15
                Rdeyer are you still using these same cameras? I am amazed with the lack of blur that you are achieving!
                For the rest of the group, have you also gotten the same results?

                Really disappointed in the Kayeton cameras and even tried a high end Mars 250 fps that has more blur than what Rdeyer has.
                thx

                Comment


                • preludesam
                  preludesam commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It's not an issue with the camera or the fps. You must provide more light to the capture area. The camera auto-selects the correct amount of shutter speed based on the amount of light available. The camera fps has zero effect on the clarity of the image.
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