Lumens in light controlled space

[hamviper]

Done enough research on this to split my brain at this point. Here is the situation: Down to the projector, the hard part is not being able to see them in real life. What I need to understand is just how many lumens is needed. For my situation I have a large shop I am putting my unit in 14' ceilings, large space. I have full control of the over head lights and will be adding directional low spread lighting over the hitting area, so there should be minimal light spread into the screen. Screen will be Carl's place premium on a 8x12'10" 10:16 setup, or slightly larger. From what I can tell, I can get a 3000, 4000, or 5000 lumen projector for this space. Looking at BenQ 671 3000 lumen lamp, a 1090 laser 4000 lumen from optoma, or a unit from panasonic VZ580u that is lamp but 5000 lumens. I get my Bushnell Launch pro today so that will be the smarts. Under well controlled light conditions with this size screen, is there significant advantage to laser vs lamp or 5000 vs 3000 lumens. Appreciate the real world experience from this group. All the projector review information is on a 100" screen, a sim screen is a lot bigger then that so hard to see the real world difference. I see high end super expensive projects with 2000 lumen output, so think an excellent picture can be had at lower output.

Build so far is just the matting material ordered from Amazon and the the Bushnell launch pro they had in stock as refurbished, so jumped on that. I am struggling with how tall to make the unit, has nothing to do with swing issues as have 14' ceiling, more how much height do you want to stay with a HD style ratio. 16x9 is to much width, so shooting for 16x10 and only want to use 15' max width of shop space. With Carl's you have to jump from the diy to pro if you exceed a 8' high screen in 16x10, so looking at a max size there of 8' high screen almost 9 foot tall enclosure. Other option is the spectrum golf aluminum pro enclosure unit which I think I can custom order to exactly 14 wide x 8'9" tall screen.

Will add holy grail hitting strip and a full putting green floor once my brother and I settle on the right turf. Getting things shipped to Montana is a problem at times.

[COgolfengineer]

I did an install in a shop with 16' high ceilings. The lights could be turned off but the shop had a lot of windows. I used a 5000 lumen projector. It looks good during the day on a 16:9 screen, but looks much better when it's dark and no daylight coming thru the windows. So it could benefit from an even brighter projector. If you have any windows and can't cover them, then brighter the better for the projector and wouldn't go any less than 5000 lumens. Unless with the Optoma 1090, it gets mounted to the enclosure (meaning the depth of the enclosure needs to be deep enough), the 4200 lumens would be fine.

In regards to your screen size, if you have 15ft of width to use, fill it up with screen, so maybe you'd get 14ft of visible screen if the enclosure is 15ft wide. I would get the tallest enclosure they have, especially if wanting a deeper enclosure so the Optoma could hang from it. You can set a custom resolution on the PC so the projector fills the screen perfectly, so don't really need to be set to a 16:9 or 16:10 screen ratio.

[Dax]

Have a look at the Eiki 308u as well. Also, Ron from Gung-ho golf has posted some good information on this forum regarding projectors and set-up. Might be good to reference some of his stuff as well.

[Will]

I'll be lazy and just copy and paste an old post that I had to a question about projectors and their brightness and image size. Some of this is not relevant, but it should get you down the right path and show you the math for your decision.

Will
..........................................

While 16:10 looks great, a 16:9 ratio works cleanly with a projector and a duplicate monitor. The screen ratio will be native on 4k projectors. 0.50 to 0.90 lens throw ratio should keep your shadow off the screen.

I highly recommend having two 2160p monitors to run the course application and the launch monitor on separate screens. The primary monitor duplicates the projected image. I launch a smaller, windowed version of uneekor's ignite program along with a browser/YouTube or other windows on a secondary screen.

A 16' wide screen requires 30% more projector lumens to have the same brightness as a 14' wide screen. If you plan on having ambient light in your room (enough to walk around and more than a spot light on the ball) then target 50 ft lamberts for the resulting screen brightness. But, don't get too caught up on that 50 ft lamberts number. You have to control the other light in the room that can reflect onto the screen. It's cheaper to control light direction than buy more lumens.

16' x 9' = 144 sq ft
14' x 7.875 = 110.25 sq ft

50ftL x 144 sq ft = 7200 lumen projector
50ftL x 110.25 Sq ft = 5512.5 lumen projector

My signature shows an 8000 lumen projector for a 14' wide screen because I wanted a lot of ambient light in my room from things like the philips hue play system (it's all guided toward the walls, floor, and ceiling). Large monitors put out a lot of light. Also, there are 3 lights pointing to the stance mat area to reduce hard shadows of my body or a golf club near the ball. Lastly, the garage doors have tinted windows that allow light in the late afternoon.

A 16' wide space is great for the swinging area. You can step back from the ball and perform a practice swing. But remember, if you have monitors mounted on the wall, there will be a need for a keyboard and mouse shelf, or stand, along with a computer mounted somewhere. Assuming the monitors are on the right side wall, it may take some space away from the lefties on a 16' wide enclosure. 8' is a comfortable distance from ball to side wall if there isn't anything actually on the side wall.

As far as ceiling height, I wouldn't go under 10'. You don't even want to think about your follow through with a driver or any club. Tall friends may visit. My room is 10'8 and it gives optional heights for those suspended ceiling mounted peripherals (think spot lights, baffles, the projector mount). It's ok for the launch monitor or projector to hang down a bit in the center line of ball path. Your clubs will only be in the center of the hitting area at contact.

I agree on having a lot of depth. 10'-12' is fine for ball distance to screen. You will want an additional 8' of space away from the ball before placing any object such a bar and seating. You wouldn't want any one to walk that close to a back swing.

[Will]

To clarify...

Use the full native projected image width or lose useful light output. A 12'w x 9'h tall 4:3 image would require the same lumen projector as a 16'w x 9'h image if the projector produces a 16:9 image natively. When you change the source resolution away from the native ratio, the projector will only reduce the pixels used on it's panel.

Also, some fun with expected light output and screen results.......

All numbers assume a native 16:9 projector with 1920x1080p or 3840x2160p source. With an 8' high screen, you would work with 114 sq ft to choose your projector lumen requirement.

Screen size (wxh), 16:9 native:
17.77' x 10' = 177 sq ft
16' x 9' = 144 sq ft
14.22 x 8'= 114 sq ft
14' x 7.875' = 110.25 sq ft
12.44' x 7' = 87.1 sq ft
12' x 6.75' = 81 sq ft

Projector required if targeting 50ftL :
50ftL x 177 sq ft = 8850 lumen projector
50ftL x 144 sq ft = 7200 lumen projector
50ftL x 114 sq ft = 5700 lumen projector
50ftL x 110.25 sq ft = 5512.5 lumen projector
50ftL x 87.1 sq ft = 4355 lumen projector
50ftL x 81 sq ft = 4050 lumen projector

Results of using a 5000 lumen projector:
5000 ÷ 177 = 28.2 ftL
5000 ÷ 144 = 34.7 ftL
5000 ÷ 114 = 43.9 ftL
5000 ÷ 110.25 = 45.3 ftL
5000 ÷ 87.1 = 57.4 ftL
5000 ÷ 81 = 61.7 ftL

Results of using a 4000 lumen projector:
4000 ÷ 177 = 22.6 ftL
4000 ÷ 144 = 27.8 ftL
4000 ÷ 114 = 35.1 ftL
4000 ÷ 110.25 = 36.3 ftL
4000 ÷ 87.1 = 45.9 ftL
4000 ÷ 81 = 49.4 ftL


These results are if you are using dynamic setting on a projector without doing any color correction. You may lose another 10-20% light output with color correction or different color mode. Also, the projected image brightness will reduce a bit further because we are not using screens with a gain (higher reflectivity).

50 foot lamberts is a good target for a light controlled room with some ambient light and well guided spot lights.

[hamviper]

Thank you Will for the info. Laid out my floor mat's today and decided the size of the screen will be 8.5 or 9' tall, 12.9 wide. Based on this and the info provided the best option is the Panasonic 5000 lumens unit which I can find under $1300. May go 9 high to make the projector throw easier to manage and reduce clipping. Will not quite make 50fl but best balance of dollars and picture. Little over a week and I will place orders. Hopefully I can post some pictures showing how it looks.

[Will]

You have a good title for your post and others will hopefully find this useful. These calculations and info should be known and not a mystery.

I'm sure you can control and direct much of the ambient light in the room away from the screen. It's cheaper to control ambient light than to buy lumens.

Have fun with the build!

[Derekfsu]

You can turn a brighter projector down but not the other way around, smart choice.

[hamviper]

I made a last minute change to plans and ordered a ViewSonic (PX748-4K) 4K UHD Projector with 4000 Lumens. It is less bright then the Panasonic, but mounts at about the same place, has 4 corner correction, vertical and horizontal keystone and is 4K, released this year instead of 3-4 years ago. Its lense shift also lets you get 11 or so inches above the screen instead of 8 or so below the screen so less keystone should be needed. If it doesn't work out I will marketplace it and go bigger and brighter. Other nice piece is it is $1090 on amazon so not horrible. Will order my enclosure tomorrow so should be a month and I will post up pictures. Thanks again for the help.

[Derekfsu]

4k with 4,000 lumens for $1,000 is insanely affordable.

[jasonreg]

hamviper - I am sure you took a look at this but projector central seems to indicate that for your 8'x14' image you want you will need to mount the projector almost 18 feet back. You may want to take a solid look at potential shadows being cast on the screen during use. Generally, you want to focus on short throw projectors you can mount in the 5-10 foot range from the screen. Otherwise, a decent projector - note it is a bulb vs laser and take into consideration the differences there as well.

[jasonreg]

From Projector Central - again, you likely have looked at this but I would be concerned about shadows assuming you are center mounted.

[hamviper]

Thanks for the information. Good news is my shop is 30 feet wide from screen to wall and I have 14' ceilings. From what I am looking at my viewable screen will be 8'6" max height , I will need to place the unit around 17' from screen and 11.5' high to project over a 6'6" tall golfer at 9ft (I can hit at 10 if I want). I am 5'9. This uses the zoom to the maximum which also gives the most brightness according to projector central tool. This assumes I want the picture right on the ground, which with a small ramp at the bottom is not quite correct. I figured the 4K will retain much better image quality if you have to clip the picture to fit the screen. This unit can be mounted 10" above the screen without keystone being needed with lens shift. It will have to be tilted and keystone used but less then the Panasonic. The Panasonic would mount 1-2 feet closer but it has to be below screen height a few inches to avoid using keystone. So placing it at at 16' it would need to be 11 feet up resulting in I think more keystone needed. My thought was more pixels better if you are going to zoom or keystone, and potentially the brightness will be closer in the end. Unfortunately I will only have one to test instead of both, but I will report how it works when it goes in. Like I said worst case, I don't like it and replace later. I see people are using this unit, so I thought I would give it a try. Its not really much worse then a TK700STI and quite a few people are using that one as well. So as you can tell I have overthought the heck out of it and in the end decided to try one.

[jasonreg]

- Enjoy then! Tinkering is fun all on its own!

[Brettster]

hamviper

oking at my viewable screen will be 8'6" max height , I will need to place the unit around 17' from screen and 11.5' high to project over a 6'6" tall golfer at 9ft (I can hit at 10 if I want). I am 5'9. This uses the zoom to the maximum which also gives the most brightness according to projector central tool. This assumes I want the picture right on the ground,

jasonreg

You likely have looked at this but I would be concerned about shadows assuming you are center mounted.

I wouldn't worry about shadows... I'm 5'10" and my projector is mounted 14'4" from the screen (+6" for projector = 13'10"), at 9'2" height and I've never had any issues, even when I use my Sim as a Movie theater and let the little ones sit up front You can see my screen/setup and projection at this post in my Forum Thread of my build:
https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...653#post364653

Here is where I talk about the projector:
https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...795#post365795

Here it is setup as my Sim:
https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...292#post382292

[Derekfsu]

and well guided spot lights.

THIS is a huge small detail. Barn doors, or blinders, or whatever that block light from going forward of the bulbs towards the screen make a significant impact on ambient light on the screen and forward cast shadows.

[Brettster]

Derekfsu - it sure is! It's huge... easy to use homemade snoots to block light... also getting the right type of bulb to put in 'ambient lighting', if your LM is affected in any way.

[hamviper]

THIS is a huge small detail. Barn doors, or blinders, or whatever that block light from going forward of the bulbs towards the screen make a significant impact on ambient light on the screen and forward cast shadows.

Appreciate this, read GungHo article on light. I have a 3 track light unit coming and will put blinders facing the screen. I have blackout shades on my 2 windows and doors. It's pitch black in the shop middle of the day. This should give me the best chance at a great picture.