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Measuring Your Potential (experiment)

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  • Measuring Your Potential (experiment)

    I figured this might be the best place to try a little experiment of mine, but I need volunteers!

    For those that know me, I am a little obsessed with swing speed. Don't get me wrong, I know that its not everything, but I have a philosophy of sorts, so if you want to know what that is, I would invite you to read my other thread below. If you don't care or already have read it, then please read on.

    https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum...ght-golf-swing

    My theory:

    Golf clubs get harder to swing well with increasing length. This is due, I think, to our swing flaws and inefficiencies showing more in those longer clubs, as well as the inertia of the club increasing. My theory is, that if you can measure the swing speed with a very short club (which I believe negates most of a person's swing inefficiencies due to low inertia and length), you can easily calculate what your swing speed potential is with any other club.

    The experiment:

    In order to find out if there is any validity to this, I ask for volunteers that are able to, to perform the following experiment.

    Get on a Trackman, or use any device that you know measures swing speed accurately (or at least consistently and with known offset to an actual speed). Take your shortest club and choke all the way down to the bottom of the grip. Proceed to hit balls, but hit them with as fast of a swing as you can produce. Do this many times, and note your fastest swing speed (take an average as well if you want). Make sure you throw out any obvious outliers. Next, measure your club from the heel to top of your left hand where the butt of the grip would be if the club was really as short as your choking down is making it seem (if you are a lefty, measure to the top of your right hand). You can now take this number and use it to calculate what your potential driver swing speed could be. (Note: if you don't have a reliable way to measure swing speed, but have a Skytrack or GC2 and want to try this, I have a calculator I made that takes your ball numbers and converts it pretty accurately into a swing speed, just send me a PM with your numbers or I can direct you to the thread so you can download it)

    I would ask you post your results along with your known current driver speed. Please don't worry about your ego and such in posting, nobody on here really cares how slow or fast you are compared to anyone else. The point of this is to hopefully show everyone they can do more than what they currently think they can.

    An Example:

    Fully choked down on my lob wedge, my effective club length is about 33.5 inches from heel of the club to where the butt of the club would be if I lopped it off just above my left hand. I can all out swing that club at a peak speed of 103 mph. Now, if I use some simple math, I can guess around how fast I could swing my driver if I had as efficient of a swing as I can produce.

    103 mph/33.5 inch = 3.075 mph/inch, 3.075 mph/inch X 44 inch = 135 mph.

    Currently, when I feel like I am swinging well, I can legitimately get 125 mph with my driver on Trackman. I know however that I do have some major flaws that could increase that another 4-5 mph and also make my speed more consistent. I would guess then, that for me, the increasing inertia of the longer driver lowers my max ceiling by about 5 mph. So, the realistic equation would be the following...

    ((Shorty Swing Speed/Shorty Club Length) X (Driver Club Length)) X 0.963 = Max Possible Clubhead Speed

    This might differ more for different people, but I think this will roughly capture whether or not you are leaving speed on the table.

    Why I propose you do this:

    There is currently no good way to determine a person's peak speed and where it peaks at. I know that I can vary over 15 mph due to technique alone. I dump all of that speed a foot behind the ball, sometimes more, or I don't sync up my body and its even slower and is lost in wasted movement or some other thing. I theorize that nearly everyone can swing a short club to nearly max efficiency just due to the lack of inertia. As club length goes up, you can no longer get away with any inefficencies and it shows via loss of club speed and often in poor contact. With this, I think you will potentially open your eyes to how fast your body can actually go, or see that you are or aren't living up to your potential.

  • #2
    Interesting post...I do think your numbers may be a bit off...135 mph swing speed? The highest measured swing last year on tour was 129 from what I saw. The tour average is about 114 mph. I know what is important is different to each individual. Bottom line it comes down to scoring. Can you elaborate a bit more on how it would benefit someone knowing they can swing the club faster?

    Comment


    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      That is basically what I am saying, but of course a person should not make that their whole range session. I'd say at the end of a range session, hit 5 golf balls at 100% with each club, maybe a few more with the driver. If your swing is efficient, you won't feel nearly as much fatigue as you would if you have a really inefficent swing. Swing faster not harder is my motto.

      When I am swinging well, I can hit for as long as I want almost with almost no fatigue. I am only 35 so this could be different for older golfers. Whenever I am swinging poorly, I get tired quickly. My speed drops extremely low (low for me), down to maybe 110 with the driver. You also are less likley I think, to injure yourself if your swing is as efficient as it can be. Your swing should also be quite accurate when it is that efficient. All you have to do is dial it back a little and you have a repeatable, almost as fast as you can swing, swing. When my swing is good, I can go at it as fast as I want and make great contact and hit my target, when I have a bad day, I can't go after it, or when I try its really not any faster and its usually horrible contact.

      The idea is, you can swing as hard as you can (even if your swing is terribly inefficient) with a really short club and still maintain most of your max speed at the ball. This can help someone see how much improving swing technique and efficiency can improve their speed with the longer clubs. It can be dramatic, it has been for me and I am not even yet to where I think I can be.

      Edit: I would also say, the more you are able to practice at 100%, the more your muscles will strengthen and the more your muscles will learn to fire fast. 5 years ago I started out swinging driver at about 105 max, it only took me a season or 2 to be around 115-120, and another few years of practicing to reach where I am now. I almost always finished my range session by swinging as fast as I could for as many balls as I could. I experimented with techniques that improved my speed and efficiency, and I obtained just faster firing muscles by doing so. I still have a ways to go before I am consistent and where I want to be but its getting there. Others might get there a lot faster than me, especially if you are young and still moldable. Its hard when you have 15 years of bad habits to undo.

      I would love to see your results. Thank you!
      Last edited by Clevited; 12-04-2017, 09:47 PM.

    • rhart
      rhart commented
      Editing a comment
      You said the key word "efficient". Swinging harder doesn't necessarily equate to more club head speed. Do you happen to have a video of your swing? I would like to see how you are able to generate so much club head speed.

    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      I can certainly send you a PM with a YouTube link if you like. I prefer to keep videos/pictures whatever of myself private, so if you could please not repost I would appreciate it. I will also look through my high speed camera for some more recent versions of my swing, I change things in my swing like I change my underwear lol. I enjoy testing things out, the golf swing is so wonderfully complicated.

  • #3
    Haha...absolutely please do pm me. I wouldn't share it or repost it. I am just interested as I enjoy breaking down swings. The golf swing is highly complicated and there are many ways to get the club head from point a to b.

    Comment


    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      I sent PM, another person asked to see them last week so I had them on hand. I will look for some newer ones with driver. Not sure if I have any on my camera but I will look tonight. If you take a look at my other thread I posted a link to, it might explain more of my evolution, theory and current swing issues I am aware of.

  • #4
    Hey man, I’d love to see the swing as well. No ill will intended, I have to say I’ve been interested in your swing for a few months now. I too promise to not share. You should have my email but if not, pm and I’ll get it to you.

    Comment


    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      Sure. Its nothing currently to be proud of but when I can make it work, I can give it everything I've got and hit pretty well. Then a day goes by, and bam, I suck again lol.

      You should consider trying my little experiment
      Last edited by Clevited; 12-05-2017, 05:42 AM.

  • #5
    I can try to get it to you. Would be interesting. I can measure with hmt

    Comment


    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      Excellent, I am looking forward to seeing your numbers.

  • #6
    Ok my average club head speed with my 60 degree choked down was 82.2 mph. So that number divided by 32.5" would be 2.5292. That number multiplied by 45.5" is 115.08.

    Comment


    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      So if you really go after one, is 111 doable for you? From all of the published data I see, most people have about 2-5 mph extra in them them beyond what a typical smooth swing would be for them.

      Edit: Essentially, if my little experiment holds true, your numbers tell me your body has the potential to produce a PEAK driver swing speed of somewhere at or perhaps a little above 111 mph. Take about 95 percent of that to be a typical smooth swing (it can be as high as 98 percent or as low as 90 percent for some. I estimate this based on all of the pga data I have studied). That would put you around 105-106 for a potential average smooth swing.

      If that jives to you, it looks to me like you are almost maximizing your potential and have a very efficient swing.
      Last edited by Clevited; 12-06-2017, 04:55 PM.

    • rhart
      rhart commented
      Editing a comment
      It is probably doable yes...I would probably blow what's left of my back out...but it would be doable...ha

    • Clevited
      Clevited commented
      Editing a comment
      Awesome! I must have been posting at the same time you were. I added an edit to my previous comment. Looks like my formula is at least quite realistic for you. I hope to get some other low handicappers to post some data as well as high handicappers.

  • #7
    If there are any of you with the means to test this, I would really appreciate the help.

    To summarize the experiment:

    Take shortest club you have (wedge), choke down to the end of the grip and get on a Trackman or any device that measures accurate swing speed and record your highest swing speed (make sure you get fully warmed up and hit many shots, keep trying to increase your speed) but be sure to throw out any obvious outliers.

    Record your fastest speed in mph, and the effective length of your choked down club (measure from heel of club to where grip end would be if it were cut off right above your top hand).

    After you are done, post on here or PM me the following :

    1) Highest swing speed in mph of the choked up club
    2) Effective length in inches of said club when choked up
    3) Your driver length in inches as measured from heel to end of grip
    4) Your current peak driver speed when you really go after one.
    5) Your calculated max potential using this formula:

    ((Shorty Swing Speed/Shorty Club Length) X (Driver Club Length)) X 0.963 = Max Possible Clubhead Speed

    I can do the math for you if math of any kind just hurts your head to look at lol. I understand believe me.

    Comment


    • #8
      Here is some data so far. Just a couple so far have chimed in, and I have 2 others that said they will test. Thank you to those that have posted, given me data or have informed me they plan to.

      1) Scratch golfer, known average driver speed is 104 mph. 82.2 mph wedge, 32.5 inches long, 45.5 inch driver, I calculate 110.8 mph max driver speed. Tester confirmed this to be a realistic maximum for them.
      2) Unknown handicap, known average driver speed is 110 mph. 85 mph wedge, 32 inches long, 44 inch driver, I calculate 112.5 mph max driver speed. Tester confirmed this to be a realistic maximum for them. I suspect this particular person could be even higher though.
      3) Me, ~15 handicap (if i finally pick a swing I might actually improve ha), known max driver speed 125.7. 103 mph wedge, 33 inches long, 44 inch driver. I calculate 132.3 mph max driver speed. Doesn't quite jive. If this formula turns out to be true across a larger sample of good golfers, I suspect I have inefficiencies to correct.

      So far interesting results. I am hoping to understand how inertia and mass of the golf club effects us as the club gets longer. I suspect right now that its impossible to cacluate swing speed potential with just a ratio of club lengths, hence my little constant in the equation. I want to solve for this constant. Hopefully it is pretty uniform as club length goes up.

      Comment

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