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Launch Angle importance?

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  • Launch Angle importance?

    Just wanted to post these numbers and get your inputs as to the launch angles and does it really matter as much as everyone is saying it does. I know I am trying to de-loft the club at impact but based off of what the LM are saying its obvious that I am not.

    A little background about me. Was a golf everyday person from 95-07 got down to a 3-ish handicap was always about 1 club shorter than others with my irons but was as long if not longer with Driver. Life changes put my golf days on hold till recently and I got the bug that never went away was just in hiding. I took PGA superstore membership deal in July last year and hit on GC2 there. My numbers and swing was horrible but was committed to getting back to my younger days which eventually lead me to this site..the R-Motion.. and recently a ST.

    I am finally getting my rotation speed back and was hitting on ST last night and was happy with the distance and accuracy (for most part) that were close to those that I remember when I was a daily golfer. So I took my 7 Iron (2004 Callaway X-16 Pro 34 degree loft) to the PGA store tonight to compare to what I was getting on the ST last night (did this same thing with R-Motion and was pleased as well).

    I do not have the GIP yet so I cannot edit my ST sessions like I could on the GC2 so just going to add one of the pictures that show one of my shot results that were similar during my ST session (If you can edit them without a GIP please tell me how!!)

    My question is for all you number cruncher's out there. Seeing how my Launch Angles are WAY higher than normal for a 7 iron with 34 degrees loft .. does it matter if I am getting the carry I am expecting from that club? And if I am able to somehow get them lower with same ball speed would that equate to more carry?

    On a side note after my session tonight at the PGA store.. I hit the Srixon Z785, the Titleist AP2 and the Taylor Made P970 all 7 irons and all had 20+ yards more carry (so hard not to make a purchase with that much improvement)!!

    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Did you look at the "shot optimizer" feature on the SkyTrak after some 7 iron swings? It gives you pretty good comparative feedback on what the (often uncooperative) golf ball should be doing ideally. Just a thought.

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    • #3
      I only have basic range right now, about to place my order for the GIP so will check that out once I get it. Thanks!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Burtgolf View Post
        Seeing how my Launch Angles are WAY higher than normal for a 7 iron with 34 degrees loft .. does it matter if I am getting the carry I am expecting from that club? And if I am able to somehow get them lower with same ball speed would that equate to more carry?

        On a side note after my session tonight at the PGA store.. I hit the Srixon Z785, the Titleist AP2 and the Taylor Made P970 all 7 irons and all had 20+ yards more carry (so hard not to make a purchase with that much improvement)!!
        A lower LA wouldn’t produce more carry, but more forward lean should produce more ball speed. Try experimenting with 1/4 swings keeping your hands in front of the ball, and see what the lowest LA numbers you can get, just for fun. Experiment, play, but don’t get too hung up on it. Trying to keep your hands further in front can really mess up your swing, but it does seem to be true that better players tend to have more forward shaft lean.

        With your session at the PGA store, be a little wary.

        What are the lofts on the clubs you were hitting? Maybe they’re really a 6 iron with a 7 stamped on the bottom.

        Don’t trust the PGA store carry distances. Compare the raw data - ball speed, back spin, and LA.

        Many of the modern mid-irons launch higher and spin less with lower lofts, in order to carry farther. Is that really what you want from your irons?

        Danny

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        • Burtgolf
          Burtgolf commented
          Editing a comment
          DannyMRICS your right on the lofts of the other clubs are a few degrees stronger than my 7 Iron but the ball speed and launch angles on them are much better resulting in huge carry difference of about 20 yards for the same stamped "7" irons. I was hitting these 7 irons about 5 yard more carry than my 6 iron. I also noticed I was getting a lower launch angle which actually prompted this question if they are stronger lofted and producing more ball speed then does the launch angle matter? I was putting the same swing using them but my LA was under 20* where as you can see I am more like 24-25* with my 7 (21-22 with my 6)

          X-16 Pro 7 = 34° and my 6 is 30°
          AP3 7 = 31°
          P790 7 = 30.5°
          Z785 7 = 32°

          I have been working on getting a lower LA but seems when I do get the 7 under 20 its because I hit a huge hook with it
          Thanks for your reply very valid points!

      • #5
        I think my 34 degree 7 iron launches more round 18 degrees. Im thinking if you can repeat your shot regardless of la and know it's carry who cares what you la is when you tap in from birdie from 150 yards!
        As for number crunching it's hard to predict what your carry would be with a change in la if you don't know how that la might change your spin.

        Comment


        • Burtgolf
          Burtgolf commented
          Editing a comment
          Wizard of Coz its funny you mentioned the hard to predict part as in the GC2 examples I had two shots that had the same ball speed of 106 one at 20* the other at 27* basically same backspin and resulted in 1 yard carry difference, the huge difference was peak height and one was a draw(hook) and the other a gentle fade.

          Thanks for your reply!

      • #6
        For your ball speed, that LA is fine. The peak height is the same as a tour pro(30-35yards).

        ​​​​​​

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        • #7
          JackedUpSwing so do you think if I was to lower the LA then the ball speed would not increase as less loft at impact? This is whats bugging me about seeing all these other stats which show LA under 20* for 8 iron and on up. I rarely get my 6 iron under 20* launch!

          Thanks for your reply!

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          • #8
            Lower launch faster ball speed

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            • #9
              Yea less loft will increase ballspeed, but only marginally.
              I have the same launch angle as you with my 7 iron, but my ballspeed is around 123 and I carry it 173. I could carry it another 15 or so yards if I lowered the LA a bit. But if I focus on shaft lean, I just lose my swing completely.

              I probably flip a bit, but I'm ok with that. Ball striking is by far the best part of my game, so I'm not trying to ruin my swing just to get more shaft lean at impact.

              Disclaimer: I do hit the ball VERY HIGH( 40+ yards peak)... So when it's windy, I struggle a lot more than others. But I'm learning to just take a longer club and swing a little bit slower. And it seems to work for me.


              ​​​​​​
              Last edited by JackedUpSwing; 03-25-2019, 12:04 AM.

              Comment


              • Burtgolf
                Burtgolf commented
                Editing a comment
                JackedUpSwing That is some high ball speed for a 7 iron! What irons/ball are you using? I don't even want to know what your driver ball speed is... HAHAHA

                I just finished my first session in the garage with the GIP and decided to do the assessment at 150 with my 7 iron, went through it at least 4 times and every time I got around the 20* launch angle I missed the green WAY left... when I just focused on my normal swing (working on hip rotation to start the swing) I would hit the green .. so yeah I will take the accuracy over the launch angle any day!!

                I also noticed when I was using the Kirkland balls they would launch at least 3-4* lower than the Noodle I was using but the spin was high 7000s which ate up any carry distance I am getting from the Noodle at same ball speed with 5000 rpm

              • JackedUpSwing
                JackedUpSwing commented
                Editing a comment
                Burtgolf Lol.. yea I bought a bunch of those kirkland 3-piece but they spin so much I legit can't use them... My 6 iron spins 7500 with those things.

                I use chromesoft or prov1s. My driver ballspeed is between 155-162. Highest I've ever seen(when just messing around on the range) is 167.

            • #10
              Originally posted by Burtgolf View Post
              JackedUpSwing so do you think if I was to lower the LA then the ball speed would not increase as less loft at impact? This is whats bugging me about seeing all these other stats which show LA under 20* for 8 iron and on up. I rarely get my 6 iron under 20* launch!

              Thanks for your reply!
              I hope you're not referring to those tour averages TM generated a while ago? Those are just averages, they are not any kind of 'ideal' numbers nor should they be considered some type of target to shoot for. Lots of tour players hit their clubs a lot higher.

              Increased ball speed with less dynamic loft delivered would only occur if you could make the swing changes and keep the same club head speed at impact - not something you should really expect. And that's assuming there are not other negative consequences to the changes - consistency, accuracy, shot shape, etc... Also, lowering dynmic loft can also lower spin - which actually could reduce your ability to control distances (more roll out on the green).

              Bottom line - change the swing based on the results you get, not the numbers. How is your distance gaps? How is distance vs distance control? Any ballooning issues? How well can you control your trajectory when you need to? Those are the kind of things you should be looking at to determine what (if any) changes to your swing might be needed.

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by StuartG View Post

                I hope you're not referring to those tour averages TM generated a while ago? Those are just averages, they are not any kind of 'ideal' numbers nor should they be considered some type of target to shoot for. Lots of tour players hit their clubs a lot higher.
                Yep those are the averages I was referencing. I know for me if I try to hit the ball lower than my normal swing then I just end up getting a hook and I hate seeing a hook! I think your other questions are very accurate with swing changes but the reason that made me want to ask this was those new clubs I was hitting with the same swing as my old clubs were getting much more ball speed, lower launch angle (yes I know they are stronger lofts but not that drastically lower) and were easy 20+ yards more carry. So it just had me thinking if I was to produce that same LA with the current set of clubs I have would it equate to that much difference in balls speed and carry... I think we can safely say not a chance!

                Thanks for your reply!

                Comment


                • #12
                  Originally posted by Burtgolf View Post

                  Yep those are the averages I was referencing. I know for me if I try to hit the ball lower than my normal swing then I just end up getting a hook and I hate seeing a hook! I think your other questions are very accurate with swing changes but the reason that made me want to ask this was those new clubs I was hitting with the same swing as my old clubs were getting much more ball speed, lower launch angle (yes I know they are stronger lofts but not that drastically lower) and were easy 20+ yards more carry. So it just had me thinking if I was to produce that same LA with the current set of clubs I have would it equate to that much difference in balls speed and carry... I think we can safely say not a chance!

                  Thanks for your reply!
                  Some of the newer iron designs have increased COR - don't know if any of those do or not - and that can cause an increase in ball speed and thus distance. So that's not something you can reproduce with an older set.

                  Also, did you hit your clubs side-by-side with the new ones during the same session? If not, not sure I'd completely trust the differences from different sessions.

                  Other than that, lots of reasons the "same swing" can get different results for different clubs, many of them are reproducible. The first things I'd look at is 1) playing lengths 2) shaft weights, and 3) swing weights (you have to consider much more than the head model - and don't assume stock values for one company will be the same as other companies). They all can have a potential effect on tempo, general sequencing and the release timing - and therefor the dynamic loft delivered.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by StuartG View Post

                    Some of the newer iron designs have increased COR - don't know if any of those do or not - and that can cause an increase in ball speed and thus distance. So that's not something you can reproduce with an older set.

                    Also, did you hit your clubs side-by-side with the new ones during the same session? If not, not sure I'd completely trust the differences from different sessions.

                    Other than that, lots of reasons the "same swing" can get different results for different clubs, many of them are reproducible. The first things I'd look at is 1) playing lengths 2) shaft weights, and 3) swing weights (you have to consider much more than the head model - and don't assume stock values for one company will be the same as other companies). They all can have a potential effect on tempo, general sequencing and the release timing - and therefor the dynamic loft delivered.
                    I had my 7 iron (34*) with me. I hit it first and when I was warmed up I started with the AP3 (31*) , then the Srixon (32*) and finally the P790 (30.5*) and of course the P790 and AP3 were the longest but the Z785 was only a few (2-5) yards less carry. I did not know the lofts of them when I was hitting but I seen a huge difference in the club speed and launch angle. I was around the 19-20 launch angle and well over 10+ mph ball speed. I wish I would have paid attention to the spin as I do not remember that being much of a difference but it could have been. (was and still am shocked at the distance gain just by hitting new irons)

                    Now I am thinking instead of the launch angle just go get the new irons that fix it!! HAHAHA

                    Thanks for your reply!

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