Ball Flight "new" Rules

[Burtgolf]

FaultyClubs brought up in another thread about "new" rules of ball flight and I found it interesting seeing how he made me go digging for info on the internet so figured I would share my thoughts here and ask you for yours... Thanks!

I see what they are saying and I also see why the old rules are still there. So from their same blogs on club path and face angle which I have copied below they are contributing both to the balls starting direction and seem to favor more of the face angle.

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/club-path/

To hit a straight shot, the club path should be zero. The club path is part of what influences the curvature of the shot. It also is part of what determines the ball’s starting direction.

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/face-angle/

Face angle is the most important number when determining the starting direction of the golf ball. The ball will launch very closely to the direction the club face (face angle) is pointed at impact.

To hit a straight shot, the face angle should be zero. The optimal face angle depends on the type of shot the golfer wants play.


So for more fun I went to my local PGA store today and hit on their GC2 with R-Motion on my phone app going. The main thing I found was the "flight" were similar as in if I hit a draw it was a draw on both, a fade was also a fade on both however on the GC2 my draw started right (Push/Draw) and on R-Motion it started left (Pull/Draw).

For me swing path determines my ball starting line and club face determines where the ball curves. I know its a combination of the two in reality but if I want to hit a fade I simply aim my club face to my target and make a slight out to in swing and for a draw I am aiming same place just swinging in to out (right handed). This I should say is for my full swings!

In the short game and higher lofted clubs I would have to agree that face angle determines the starting path regardless of my swing path, think of hitting a flop or bunker where you open the club up and cut way across the ball, for me the ball starts in the direction my club face is aiming and not along my club path. I would say due to the higher lofts there is less impact on side spin or ability to start left/right.

Very interested in others thoughts on this!

[andygg1986]

I know for me personally, what I feel like I am doing and what is actually happening don’t always match up. I recently got an HMT for my GC2 which gives an insane amount of data on what the club is doing. It is also one of the higher end devices that takes photos of what the club is actually doing and I fully trust its accuracy. I knew I swung in to out but not the extent to which I did. I was swinging about 9 degrees out to the right, so what I feel is over the top is actually still a couple degrees in to out. On the course I end up aiming my feet far enough left that the club swings to the left of the target line. So what I thought was a pull cut was really a push cut with a very open stance. I think that the feeling of swinging to the left gets you rotating your forearms sooner which gets the club pointing left. That gets the ball starting left and you attribute it to path.

I enjoy reading the trackman articles and think that the engineers and scientists working there know their stuff. Some of the trackman data is derived from other parameters that can be measured, but they have validated it with ultra high speed cameras and it is good enough for most tour pros. But at the end of the day all that matters is being able to hit the shot you want, regardless of what you think your swing is doing.

[Burtgolf]

9 degrees is a bunch. This comment made me go look at the history on my recent swings and I am pretty much 0-3 degrees right (in to out) with my irons and 0 to -3 (out to in) with my woods. But when I looked at face angle it was always closed 0-6 degrees with irons and much more open with the woods ranging from 1 degree closed to 7 degrees open. Which I normally "try" to play a fade with woods (Cant talk to a hook) and a slight draw with the irons. So now it just makes me think I have to work harder on getting both path and face to 0 more consistently with all clubs!

[Dan McWhirter]

My teaching video subscription, Top Speed Golf, teaches that your turn (hips) at impact should be about 45 degrees open to the target, and the upper body (shoulders and arms) in sync, so you should really be swinging (for a straight shot) 45 degrees in to out with a square face releasing down the target line, what he calls a "straight line release." I love this subscription because he (Clay Ballard) explains exactly what each joint (fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, back bone, hips, knees and ankles) movement is ideal from the top of the backswing, proceeding down into impact and perfecting the release through impact. The thing I have not done is the drills...do this 500 times to gain memory, watch the next video, repeat each of two drills 500 times to gain memory, watch the next video...LOL...I'm 68 years old! But then for draws and fades, it's just a matter of body alignment at address and setting your grip on the club to the proper face angle. I'd always been one to try to change my swing (along with face angle), especially for fades or a needed slice, so that, for example, a fade requires some out to in...that didn't always work out so well. I say all this because, as said above, "what I feel like I am doing..."

[Burtgolf]

I couldnt add these to my comment above to AndyGG1986 so adding them here. I only look at the Club Data = Angle of Attack, Club Path, Face Angle and Club Speed as the rest are Ball data which is not measured from R-Motion

[Stingreye]

One thing I have found is that two other variables are huge in explaining my shots, lie (toe up and toe down) and impact location. The lower lofted clubs the impact location matters more than lie and the higher lofted clubs its ALL about the lie angle.