Distance problems indoors

[dsailer]

I have an issue with Skytrak distance reading indoors. For example, I recently hit my 8 iron outdoors and the average carry was 127 but indoors it was only 73. This seems really odd since it seems to be accurate as far as direction and flight. And it also seems to be pretty accurate outdoors. I can't believe this could be my swing. When I hit a ball at the range I'm pretty good at guessing what the yardage is going to be. I have two different mats indoors and it doesn't make any difference which I use. One has firm, short grass the other is a monster mat: much more lush.

I'm at a loss.

[dsailer]

Since I've been able to look at this issue much more lately, I'm adding an update with more details.

I've had my Skytrak since the beginning of the year now, but I've been fighting injuries and haven't been hitting balls only off and on. Also, I stopped playing about 5 years ago and have been trying to get a swing back. I thought the carry yardages were short when I bought it, but figured it could just be me. However, now that I'm physically able and hitting the ball better, I feel pretty sure my yardages are about 30% short on the Skytrak. I've gone go back and forth from outdoors to indoors 6 times recently (each time hitting indoors, then outdoors, then indoors). I always get the same short yardages with the Skytrak.

Example: 8 iron for me is about 130-134 outdoors. If I give it 95% effort, it'll go 140+. I've gone to 3 different ranges and checked the yardages on google maps at each one. On the Skytrak, I'm closer to 90-95 yards with the 8i. I've had this setup in my basement for 10 years and I'm really comfortable hitting down there. If anything, I feel I normally hit better in the basement where it's quiet, nobody around, etc. There's just no way I can believe that I'm changing my swing that much. I'm pretty good at predicting direction, ball flight, and distance within a decent range. I think I'd have trouble outdoors trying to hit an 8 iron only 90 yards.

My Skytrak setup up is all squared up and leveled. I built a leveling device for it to sit on and always level it up. I use a laser site to square everything up. The mat is a brand new monster turf. Software is all up to date. I even took my home golf mat and balls out to a park once to see if that mattered.

I've been hesitant to post this, as I understand Seth (and others) when they say it could be a different swing indoors. But I've been going around and around on this, testing and really trying to make sure my swing isn't changing. Something isn't right.

Here are some numbers from a recent session in my basement setup. Looking at a bunch of my 8 iron sessions, the average carry is between 86 and 96. I've attached one that averaged 96

[Chughes82]

A certain percentage of any manufactured product will be defective. Skytrak is no exception. Assuming you are out of warranty, it sounds like time to seek a repair. If you can document that you've had these problems from the start, maybe Skytrak will have mercy and honor a belated but demonstrably ever-present warranty issue.

[Lefty]

My experience with skytrak is similar to dsailer's. After version 1.8.6 was installed, all of my distances were much shorter than expected. I haven't used it in a while and I'm hoping an updated version will fix the problem.

[dsailer]

for me, I I think those changes were minor compared to my 30% variation.

[Mike80]

The Skytrak should read the irons very accurately. All my irons are exactly how I hit them on the course. Yours may be defective. But I would strongly recommend you have some other people come over and hit some balls. See if it reads short with all of their shots. But yeah, I would talk to Skytrak if it's defective.

[dsailer]

Your right, this is a good idea, but I've been out of the game for years. I've worked that angle a bit, but will try to do more. There will still be the same doubts, but this would help.

I'd also be wiling to hook up with anyone in the Harrisburg, PA area who owns a Skytrak so we could cross-test two units. This would be a much better test.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

Yeah, it's VERY hard without being there/testing on the range. If you feel like there is a problem with the unit, I would suggest sending it in to have it inspected. But as you said, if you've been out of the game, I would highly recommend getting some 2nd opinions or cross-checking. I will say though looking at your data - those are very low ball speeds and back spins for an 8 iron. Are you picking it clean off the mat?

[dsailer]

Thanks Seth, if I decide to send it in, how do I do that?

[Ryan5508]

You have to call them. If you contact chat they can give you the number to call.

one thing to keep in mind in my experience is the mat can take a ton of speed off your hits. My monster mat really hurt distances if I hit it fat at all.

[dsailer]

So here is my update on this. I've decided NOT to send it back in (at least for now). I suspect what I'm seeing is a few things that add up to a lot, namely:

1) my swing indoors is some of this. How much, I still don't know.
2) some of it was a monster mat. I have two mats plus I've also tested hitting off a tee (cleanly) so I have played around with this and I don't think this is a huge issue, but it does make a difference.
3) When I post my values from Skytrak into flightscope optimizer, f.s. is giving me a bit more yardage. For example, I was hitting really well off a short tee in my basement tonight and the 8 iron was giving me 126 on Skytrak but 133 on flightscope. If you're following the whole post, now your saying "But that 126 is right up there with your normal outdoor yardage!". Yea, that's true. Like I said SOME of this was my indoor swing. It wasn't that I was afraid of swinging indoors - I think it was that I was being too analytical. I've been really working hard on swing changes. But I also suspect, the way I was hitting tonight, I would have probably been between 135-140 outdoors. Also that was me trying REALLY hard to get to 100 mph, and I'm pretty happy that I finally got there. Avg carry this session was 117 whereas outdoors is probably 127'ish.

[m3w]

If your 8 iron is about 10 yards short, how short is your driver distances? My 8 iron was only around 10 yards short, but my driver was 60 yards short! On 2 different Skytrak units. I sent them both back.

[dsailer]

@m3w,
I'm only looking at 8i right now because I know my (formerly?) crappy swing breaks down the longer the club. Plus, my driver is the ONE club I'm afraid of hitting the rafters with.

I am pretty excited that I'm starting to get my swing on plane and really compressing the ball, just not consistently.

Also, an update on this - I think #2 (mat) might be more of a factor than I thought. I'm experimenting more off the tee more. But then I hit off mats at the range too, and one of my indoor mats is very "range like" - flat, hard and crappy so again, I don't know for sure.

There are so many variables going on here, it's very hard to work out, especially when your swing isn't terribly consistent.

Also, there is another factor I didn't think of. When at the range I think it's possible that I might be hitting down-wind and not realize it. If I'm at the range and wind is in my face, I tend to dismiss the yardages as not relevant, but otherwise I don't think about it. The range I go to faces goes down-range to the south-east, so it could be the case.

[gxsr911]

hey m3w im getting about the same distances with my 3wood and driver, have you found fix or did you get a newer skytrak unit?

[SkyTrak_Seth]

I am definitely guilty of being shy with my driver indoors. Most people have no clue that they swing differently indoors. Are you giving carry or total distance discrepancies? What version SkyTrak software are you on?

[m3w]

I tested it against a GC2 (hitting indoor for both units), so I know it's not due to being shy indoors. I've been hitting indoors for may years, I'm very used to the feeling. GC2 = 230y - 240y, Skytrak = 170y - 180y.
I've been comparing total distance (Skytrak set to firm).
Software is PC v2.1, firmware is 1.4.

[dsailer]

I'm on the latest version and only looking at carry. Here are screenshots of Skytrak and flightscope optimizer for the shot in question:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/091d1711d4rjslf/AABwaYk8DpaC6LRHPhHnNRUTa?dl=0

You'll also see an interesting 3rd shot in there. Today I saw a really odd shot registered: 100 mph ball, ZERO spin, 194 yd carry 8 iron. I imagine the calculations don't really deal with zero spin well, but it's odd that it happened. It didn't really seem like an odd shot to me.

[gxsr911]

hey m3w im getting about the same distances with my 3wood and driver, did you found fix or did you get a newer skytrak unit?

[spider]

dsailer when you were at the outside range did you have the skytrak with you? Seems like that would be the call to see a difference. Mine reads short on carry distance with irons as well but not able to get to the range with it yet.

[dsailer]

I've had it to the range and I'm happy with the yardages. If anything, the Skytrak tends to read too long. I can't really see how a machine with IR camera's would care if I'm in my basement or at the range, so this certainly makes my swing, mat, balls, etc the likely culprit. The only reason I'm posting at all is that the differences I was seeing were so large, I was having a hard time accepting all that.

I too need to get back out to the range cuz I know I'm hitting it a lot better than the last time I was out. Not easy to do this time of year in Pennsylvania. High of 64 this weekend!

[dsailer]

Went to the range this weekend. Wore shorts and a t-shirt in central PA in December. What a great weekend. But ended up being frustrated and confused with yardages again. Hit a large bucket at the range and there was no wind to speak of. Same results as always - Skytrak was accurate, but generally reading about 5, and sometimes 10 yards too long. Skytrak read 143 on a couple shots that were 134. I know these yardages almost exactly because theres a fence that tilts away from golfers that is 130 to the front and 136 to the back.

I wasn't hitting the ball that well, so went back to my basement and worked out a flaw in my swing, started hitting it better, but was getting the same short yardages.

Outdoor averages for 8iron:
mph: 96
launch: 29.5
side deg: 1.5
back spin: 3040
side rpm: -562
offline: -7
carry: 138

Indoor:
mph: 83
launch: 27.1
side deg: 0
back spin: 5130
side rpm: -727
offline: -6
carry: 104

I really feel like this can't be my swing at this point. How can I get yardages 25% shorter while feeling like I'm hitting the ball better? The only caveat was the early indoor shots were off the monster mat, so I switched to a very low tee and was hitting it cleanly, with average carry around 110.

[voodoo_ca]

There are only a few things that are involved here...
The ball, for me, would be a big question mark.
Sounds like your looking at the mat.
I wonder if there is something in your setup area that messes with the IR camera that you aren't thinking about?
Did you have the ball speed from the swings above?
And you think that those strikes were done relatively similar?

[dsailer]

the "mph" above IS the ball speed and there's no way a ball is going to change ball speed 13 MPH. Also, the range has a mix of balls some of which are the same ones I hit at home.

I've definitely wondered if there is something in my setup that could be causing issues. I've experimented a fair amout with this but it hasn't changed anything.

[Chughes82]

I don't know the cause obviously, but your back spin rates for an 8 iron are low, particularly outdoors. Range balls may have a lower spin as the covers are harder. Also, if you were thinning it at the range it may carry farther, with higher ball speed and lower trajectory. (Think flyer) Higher spin at home, where you described you were hitting it better, will cause a higher ball flight, which won't go as far, especially with lower ball speed. Perhaps your range will let you take a couple of balls home to compare apples to apples. Though I doubt different balls would make that big a difference, if you are comparing performance you should eliminate as many variables as you can.

You might try taking your Skytrak to another indoor hitting area, like a golf shop, to see if your numbers are consistent there too.

[dsailer]

Right, but the Skytrak MPH is the main problem and what I'm focused on.

I agree that comparing to other indoor shops and launch monitors is good idea.

[goatbarn]

Yeah those spin numbers for outdoors are not playable spin rates. That ball would hit and run through all but the most soggy/unkept greens.

Even the indoor 5k spin for an 8 iron is almost unplayable. Should be at least 7k rpm.

Guarantee you're swinging harder at the range, maybe thinning it a little, crappy range ball not spinning...

I'd do what chughes suggests and try another place.

[dsailer]

I'm pretty sure it's not that I'm swinging harder outdoors. In fact, I've experimented with swinging harder indoors - much harder. The one time when I was able to get close to outdoor numbers in my basement, I was swinging almost uncomfortably hard. I normally find it hard to groove my swing doing this, but that day I was able to do it. Even then I never hit any 8i over about 132. And I was worn out after that session. I think it was actually a good exercise to go thru. It helps get my old 53 year old body in shape for golf, but it's not the way I swing the club at the range.

Also, I do hit both fat and thin a lot, so I'm very familiar with what that feels like and does to yardages.

As for the spin rates, I'm wondering if this is my old, worn out irons? Spin would only make a few yards difference anyway. It's the MPH I need to figure out.

[keithpbz]

Is that a 13 mph difference in ball speeds from indoors to outdoors?

[dsailer]

Yep, and I've been to the range at least a half dozen times, always with the same result.

[hks8888]

Since you have started casting doubts on Skytrak numbers, my 2 cent is that you first learn what your numbers are on an industry standard launch monitor. It would be the best if you can hit balls with Trackman or Flightscope. If you can't, go to 'Golf Smith' or a similar store and hit balls against GC2. Just get ball speed, backspin and launch angle (forget about side spin and side angle for now.) Don't pay attention to total yards that GC2 throws out because the stores boost the total yardage in many cases. Get your typical numbers there and then compare them to your Skytrak numbers.

[dsailer]

I only look at carry. Yea, I should take the Skytrak somewhere indoors with another monitor. I stopped playing a number of years ago and just started, so I'm not even familiar with where they are. I know Dicks Sporting goods has one, but I'm told that the "cage" is really claustrophobic. I also know another place here close that is getting some kind of LM in soon.