Numbers shown after hitting shot

[Willymakit]

So I'm kinda confused with the numbers that they show. So here's a pic and hopefully somebody can explain it a little better. I went to there website and read what they had to say but just can't quite wrap my brain around it. So here goes hopefully I can explain my self here.

I understand the launch angle.
I understand the back spin.
I understand the ball speed
I understand the club speed.

What I don't understand is the side Spin and side angle. I will try to explain it the way I think it's interpreted

Let's start with side spin with the pic that I attached. Will use that has the example
So what I'm reading is it 479 with a arrow going < this way. How I understand that is its spinning to the right which I'm a right hander so that should be a fade or slice for me even though it's drawing left of the target in the picture. So my question is. Does Skytrak have it backwards?

So let's go to the side spin. My interpretation of this is it goes 2 degrees left of the target line coming off the club. So in order for a in to out seeing you would need a arrow to go this way > on impact. I'm just trying to figure out if it's a in to out swing or outside to in swing or straight now the line. Please clear this up for me.

[Bubba22]

Not sure the confusion. It's showing the side spin to the left resulting in a draw. Seems right to me!

[HarryG]

As the ball is a 2D image it can be perceived as rotating either way, so Willy, you are not wrong. Look at the arrow pointing to the left on the ball which represents side spin and imagine that the 'back' of the ball is rotating to the left. Alternatively a top down view of the same image of the ball would be rotating anticlockwise. Even easier because the arrow is pointing left, expect the ball flight to be left as you have drawn the ball as a right handed player. For anyone who sees the 'front' of the ball rotating left they would expect to see a fade shape to their shot. This could be fixed by altering the arrow to a 3D graphic, or even better, simply remove the arrows from the balls.

In reality we know that golf balls don't spin left or right but backwards, so it is hardly surprising that we get confused.

On a similar issue, I use spin axis rather that side spin for the same telemetry and last night am sure I DID see the arrow reading the opposite way to which I was hitting. My fades were pointing left and my draws were pointing right, and I too am a right handed player. Could SkyTrak please look into this as unless I am mistaken it is a bug which has been introduced on with the newly released PC version of the ST software.

[Zeroes]

So I'm kinda confused with the numbers that they show. So here's a pic and hopefully somebody can explain it a little better. I went to there website and read what they had to say but just can't quite wrap my brain around it. So here goes hopefully I can explain my self here.

I understand the launch angle.
I understand the back spin.
I understand the ball speed
I understand the club speed.

What I don't understand is the side Spin and side angle. I will try to explain it the way I think it's interpreted

Let's start with side spin with the pic that I attached. Will use that has the example
So what I'm reading is it 479 with a arrow going < this way. How I understand that is its spinning to the right which I'm a right hander so that should be a fade or slice for me even though it's drawing left of the target in the picture. So my question is. Does Skytrak have it backwards?

So let's go to the side spin. My interpretation of this is it goes 2 degrees left of the target line coming off the club. So in order for a in to out seeing you would need a arrow to go this way > on impact. I'm just trying to figure out if it's a in to out swing or outside to in swing or straight now the line. Please clear this up for me.

the pic you attached shows side spin left which is acccutate to your baby draw flight

[apljb]

Yeah, I think I could understand the confusion, *if* you're interpreting that the arrow on the ball is indicating that the face of the ball is rotating in the direction of the arrow, from right to left or clockwise, if thought of as viewed from above. That would cause the flight path to curve to the right, as you say.

However, what it's actually trying to show is which direction the flight path is curving, i.e. to the left; a draw, as Bubba says.

IMHO, given that there is actually no such thing as side spin in the ball flight, it's not very helpful that Skytrak shows that as the default measure. Personally, I always change that to showing the spin axis, which then matches up to all the materials / discussion you can find re the 'new ball flight laws'.

The side angle (Horizontal Launch Angle or HLA, as it's normally put) shows which side of straight down the target line the ball starts. In your case, slightly left of target by 2*.

While you can't be exact without club data, in the example you posted, I'd read that shot (assuming you flushed it) as a pretty straight path, with a closed club face. Given that it looks like maybe a 9 iron, that could be quite closed. Spin axis would give you a better educated guess, as it could even be a slightly in-out path with a closed face.

Here's how I get there (same flushed shot assumption)...

The ball starts mostly (80%-ish) where the face is pointing, so, given that you launched it left of target, the face *had* to be pointing more than 2* left at impact. As it curved left, the spin axis was tilted left, which means the club path *had* to be to the right of that face angle. Spin axis would give you an approximation of to what degree they varied, but the amount of calculated "side spin" wasn't high at <500 revs, so, I'd guess at a path right around straight.

HTH.

[Wev]

The arrow points left, the spin makes the ball go left and side spin is shown as a -, which is for left or anti-clockwise, minus numbers for dispersion and side angle are shown left in shot history too.

If you're only picking this up since November I think you need to do some reading of the ball flight laws as if you understood them you probably wouldn't be confused.

I wouldn't really think of the arrow as the way the front or back of the ball are spinning as they're not intended to be looked at like that and it can confuse you. Basically the backspin ball is showing the back of the ball spin direction and side side spin showing the front of the ball spin direction.

Looks to me like your clubface is pretty near 0 for those three shots and your swing path is in to out or to the right by a couple of degrees, causing left side spin(draw for right handed). This is only based on a centre of face strike though, as you could have a left swing path and toe it and it could go in that direction due to gear effect. (Read up on gear effect, it will help you)

[apljb]

(gentle disagreement ahead )

If the clubface is 0 ( in terms of square to the target line at impact) and the path is in out (to the right of the face angle), you'll get a push draw/hook that starts fractionally right of target, as the ball *always* starts between the face and the path.

With a path further right than the face (resulting in a ball that curves left) it can't start left of the face angle, so the face in the example posted had to be pointing more than 2* left.

[Wev]

Apljb,

(I tried to keep it simple, but to further explain, or confuse others....)

I agree(never said otherwise) but for your top paragraph that will only happen for a strike exactly in the centre. But yes 85% ish (according to trackman) of where the ball starts is from face, the rest is path. But for someone with 0 face and a path 3 in to out the face angle is still pretty much going to round to 0 for example purposes. Anyone going +/- 10 path (when that 15% may be noticible) should be spending money on lessons, not a launch monitor. Path and face angle can easily be overridden by gear effect.

There are three shots in the example, which look to &quot;roughly&quot; launch about zero (as good as skytrack can tell anyway, which is why I said &quot;pretty near&quot. His path likely(not certainly) is right of that so it's drawing, like I said (or he can toe it with a 0 path, 0 face, same effect). I never specifically mentioned the 2 deg left shot, but if he swung 2 left of target with a face 2 degrees closed to target a centre strike would be a pull. If he toed it with the above, it would likely be a pull draw(like in the ball flight). -2 face, 0 path would also be a slight pull draw.

Gear effect is why it's impossible to even bother trying to work out face/ path without knowing the impact position on the face/ around the COG of the club. I see people often think they're slicing it due to path/face issues, then I take a look at their driver and it's obvious they hit everything out of the heel. This is why every time I go on my monitor I mark the ball with a felt pen, to check impact position, which is crucial.

Then additional to this, if the lie of the club is wrong, what looks straight may actually have the loft pointing left or right, but that's a different thing altogether. 😂

[apljb]

Absolutely, we're in violent agreement.

You're right, your comments related to all three shots, mine (with the underlying assumption of a flushed shot) was about the specific shot shown.

Non-flushed (dead center strike, i.e. even a single dimple off-center) all bets are off.

The answer (for me at least) is reading the predominant ball flight on flushed shots only and knowing from the gear effect knowledge out there, what effect mis-hitting it is likely to have.

[goatbarn]

As others have said, you don't know what the path is.

True path is the movement of the sweet spot at impact which will also include the vertical component, AOA. So you can have a visibly "left" path to an on looker, a steep AOA, and a true path that's actually to the right and hit a push draw.

Without club data, you should just be worrying about the ball flight and the feels that get you the desired ball flight.

[Willymakit]

Hey guys thanks for the responses. I do understand the physics of the flight of the ball. But what I don't understand is the interpretation shown by Skytrak. Let's go a different way of looking at this. Let's take the flight of the ball out of the picture and let's look at what the numbers are telling me on what the ball is doing. In the end, and maybe Skytrak doesn't allow this but beable to figure out what the club is doing for example inside/out or outside/in or straight down the line.


So let's look at the side spin. It shows an arrow that goes this way < my interpretation of a slice or a fade. Now with the side angle my interpretation of this would be outside/in which means it would be a slice or fade.

So now let's just look at the ball flight with out the numbers. My interpretation of this would be a pulled draw because it stayed left of center starting out and stayed left.


I just wanted to know if anybody else interpreted this the same way I am. Not that I am but if you were a noob if they would look at it this way

[goatbarn]

Yes, that would be considered a "pulled draw". Started left and turned left.

But the nomenclature of push draw/pull draw...etc. is usually in contrast to where the player is aiming. So if you were aiming 2* left of center (which is perfectly straight as far as I'm concerned) you hit a straight draw.

Still doesn't tell you definite club values though.

Most likely that shot was hit with a straight-ish path and a slightly closed club face. Maybe something like 1* left path, 3* left face. But maybe it was 0 path and 4* left face, you don't know.

[goatbarn]

Your interpretation of the side spin is incorrect. It's a left arrow, meaning the ball is curving to the left. Forget the confusing arrow on the ball. They should have put a orbitting arrow leader around the ball such that it depicts clearly the rotation direction of the ball. But all you need to remember is left = draw, right = fade.

So your ball has left side spin (draw) and a left starting direction (pull). Pull draw.

[TorchRedRob]

Your interpretation of the side spin is incorrect. It's a left arrow, meaning the ball is curving to the left. Forget the confusing arrow on the ball. They should have put a orbitting arrow leader around the ball such that it depicts clearly the rotation direction of the ball. But all you need to remember is left = draw, right = fade.

So your ball has left side spin (draw) and a left starting direction (pull). Pull draw.

And to add to that, it's not that skytrak won't allow us to know the club face angle and swing path. It's just that you cannot correctly determine club face and path based on ball data alone, due to the fact that there are several ways you can deliver the club to get the same ball flight. IMO, you can guess in general terms, but that's about it.

[sorensen]

yes you should see the arrow in front of the ball and not behind the ball, just like on the dial at 12 o'clock and not at 6 . i think :-)

[Zeroes]

[Zeroes]

pretend your behind the ball looking down the target line at the flag. Now to make the ball draw (path A) you would need to spin the ball in the direction shown looking from above. Now if you visualize yourself holding a tennis raquet, to make the ball spin in the direction of Path A (it would require a in to out movement . And to make a tennis ball rotate in the direction of path B (fade) it would require a out to in motion.

[SkyTrak_Seth]

Sorry for the confusion...let me explain. We tried to make it as simple as possible, so we use the arrows to show which way the ball will curve in the air. For a righty, a hook means the ball will curve to the left in the air, so don't worry about the icon rotation of the ball or the arrow's effect on it - arrows just show the direction in the air. That said, as someone pointed out, there really is no side spin. The ball rotates around a single axis, and that axis can tilt - resulting in curvature (you can choose to view spin axis instead in the settings). However, we and some other manufacturers split it into back spin and side spin because we believe it offers a more practical explanation of what's happening and how to fix it.