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  • Final answer needed--how to level?

    Hello,

    I purchased my skytrak in early June. I have been using it pretty faithfully these last two months. My ball striking has certainly improved with my wedges, down to my 6 iron. However, from the beginning, my driver distances (and longer irons for that matter), have been shorter than what I see in real life. That being said, I think a lot of that can be attributed to rollout, and I'm more interested in shot shape and control than I am with distances.

    From the beginning, I have been using a bubble level/and a torpedo level to check my skytrak. Every time I use the bubble or torpedo, the skytrak software reports -4 on the side to side, but reports zero front to back. That being said, I generally draw my clubs. A pretty typical draw with my 7 iron results in 15 yards right to left movement. On the skytrak, that draw is even more pronounced, often 20-35 yards, even with a 7 iron.

    Now, I haven't been to a "real" range since I got my skytrak, but I went the other day. I was expecting to see a huge draw like I do on the skytrak. Well, guess what? I saw my normal 10-15 yard draw. That really got me wondering about leveling the unit, and questioning what should I be using, the software, or a real level? i also wondered if perhaps the leveling was affecting my drives on skytrak, as they are often below 10 degree launch angle, and significant hooks. IRL, my average drive is 215 yards. However, I almost never hit 215 on skytrak. On skytrak, the normally carry about 165-170, and roll out to 185 or 190. Again, not a huge deal, but it does make sim play rather tough.

    So yesterday, rather than use my bubble and torpedo, I did some experimenting with the software level. I took it from -4 down to zero, which resulting in the skytrak leaning in on quite a pronounced angle towards the ball.

    What do you know, my huge draws went away, and I even hit some cuts and slices. Now, I don't normally hit cuts and slices, unless i'm just getting warmed up. In a round, I might go right once in 18 holes. I feel pretty comfortable knowing that my shot shape is right to left. Therefore, the "zero" angle in skytrak didn't feel quite right either, and it certainly looks weird with the unit leaned so far to the left.

    I then decided to take the unit back to more of a neutral position, settling on -2. Better looking shots, still some cuts to the right, but not as bad. Drives were a little more realistic too.

    Ultimately, I ended up questioning my confidence in how I am really hitting the ball. I need to be able to trust the skytrak, and I really want someone (Seth) to chime in with an answer.

    Should we be using the software, or a real level?

    And yes, my sktrak is level with my mat, etc.

    This board has been great reading material, I thank all for their contributions. I had been hesitant to post, but there have been a number of posts asking this same question, and I have yet to see it answered.

    I can live with my 80 mph swing, and my 200 yard drives. I got the skytrak to dial in my shot shape and develop consistency, but until I know how to actually level and plumb it, I feel like I could be doing more damage than good to my swing.

    Again, thanks for all the great information on this board, and I would love an "official" answer.

    Edited to say right to left, rather than left to right

    Brad
    Last edited by bjohnson1102; 08-11-2016, 03:58 PM.

  • #2
    I don't have experience with this. My bubble is centered when the software is zeroed. Any chance the floor is not level? Is the skytrak base the same height as the mat? Maybe ask Skytrak support.

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    • #3
      Yep I'm in the same boat the bubble for me matches up perfectly with the app showing level at 0 / 0.

      Comment


      • #4
        Mine is pretty far off from the in app level as well. Level with the physical bubble on the floor has the app leveling at 2 degrees off i believe. When I tried leveling it with just the app one time, I couldn't even get shots to pick up after. Went back to using the physical bubble and all was good. Only tried it once though, maybe I'll try it again sometime soon

        Comment


        • #5
          Has there been any follow up on this? I have a new unit and my software level is waaayyy off from actual level. The "Roll" is pretty much the same with the software and external bubble but the "Tilt" is extremely off with the software. I can post a picture if needed but I would need to tilt the SkyTrak significantly back (top tilted away from golfer) for it to show as 0 degrees tilt in the software.

          Comment


          • #6
            I personally never even tried to use app level only physical level, are you playing off a sloped surface which is causing imbalance and if so have you thought of building a platform. my question though is this the skytraks leveling is for the laser to come on line if your are in the physical TDC the computer should activate the laser and all should be ready for you to play is the extra effort even needed.

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            • #7
              the app says it self corrects for +-5. I'm as OCD as the next guy, but I'm not sure why everyone is trying to achieve perfect level.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by aeroburner View Post
                my question though is this the skytraks leveling is for the laser to come on line if your are in the physical TDC the computer should activate the laser and all should be ready for you to play is the extra effort even needed.
                I'm not sure I understand the question but here is my best answer.

                I am playing on a level surface and can also duplicate the issue on any level desk or table.
                The laser comes on and registers shots in all cases even when the unit is clearly off level.

                As far as the extra effort goes, I just want to make sure I am getting accurate readings.
                As bjohnson stated, he was getting different shot shapes when he changed his leveling. (Assuming his swing wasn't the cause of course.)
                I have days where most iron shots are straight with a baby draw. And others where everything seems to be a pull with too much draw.
                I just want to be sure that those differences are because of my swing and not because of the unit being out of level.

                I hope that helps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  it makes sense, i have never put thought past my first posting here, I think that Skytrak has to chime on in this to put an answer to this on if what Thinman is saying that there is some variance on this and if its off a little that it will still read the same.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Justin General View Post
                    ...As far as the extra effort goes, I just want to make sure I am getting accurate readings...
                    Absolutely. Given the discrepancy you've noticed you definitely should be concerned. If the skytrak appears to think it's level when it isn't this has a big impact on accuracy. It's the same for any LM.


                    I think this is one that needs Seth to address. It could just be a bug in the app and not actually what is used for processing. Or it could be level internally even though the case is not. Or it just may not be that accurate. Or the app might not be telling you if the unit is level but instead telling you if it was able to correct it back to level. Or it could in fact be wrong. Hard for a user to know.

                    Is there no documentation stating what the app reading means? I have gc2 so don't know the details but I'm assuming it has some documentation.

                    If no-one will help you then maybe try to test yourself.

                    For the pitch direction, LA could be measured based on where the ball hits the screen and then compared to the skytrak reading.

                    To test the roll direction, hit driver and get a reading of zero sidespin then observe if the ball falls straight down off the screen or has a side spin to it. If the unit says there is no sidespin but there actually is then to isn't level (assuming it otherwise can measure sidespin accurately).

                    I will say though your comment that it appears to change day to day doesn't sound like a leveling issue. I would expect it to be more stable than that even if wrong. So you might have multiple issues.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry I completely missed this thread. The internal leveling numbers are what the unit believes itself to be - those should match up with real life! That said, we can account for small discrepancies, but still, it sounds like maybe your unit has a bad accelerometer or calibration. I never would have imagined it would affect the side spin like that. To be safe, I would contact support and let them know that I recommended you have the unit sent back to be tested. It's always possible that something like that could have been damaged in shipping.

                      Comment


                      • bjohnson1102
                        bjohnson1102 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        HI Seth,

                        Was the comment to contact support directed to me, or Justin General, or both of us?

                      • SkyTrak_Seth
                        SkyTrak_Seth commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Both, and anyone who has this issue

                    • #12
                      Thanks Seth. I called support on this same issue a couple days ago. They said someone from second level would contact me but that has yet to happen. I will try calling again and share your comments to see if they can take a look at the unit.

                      --Quick Update:
                      I just called. They emailed me a UPS label and I will be sending them the unit today. - Thanks again.
                      Last edited by Justin General; 09-27-2016, 06:58 PM.

                      Comment


                      • SkyTrak_Seth
                        SkyTrak_Seth commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Awesome! Glad to hear.

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by SkyTrak View Post
                      ...I never would have imagined it would affect the side spin like that...
                      According to Trackman every 1° of spin axis tilt causes 0.7% curvature per 100 yards.

                      Meaning 5° incorrect tilt causes 3.5 yards lateral error at 100 yards. Or 7 yards error at 200 yards.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by FaultyClubs View Post

                        According to Trackman every 1° of spin axis tilt causes 0.7% curvature per 100 yards.

                        Meaning 5° incorrect tilt causes 3.5 yards lateral error at 100 yards. Or 7 yards error at 200 yards.
                        Right, but that's the tilt of the ball's axis, not the unit's axis. We are simply comparing the relationship between the images. For side angle, alignment definitely affects the readings because we use closer/farther to determine this number. But with spin, it's more like "where is the ball's rotation here compared to how it was there". And for that, I would be very surprised to hear that tilt or alignment of the unit would have that much effect.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by SkyTrak View Post

                          Right, but that's the tilt of the ball's axis, not the unit's axis. We are simply comparing the relationship between the images. For side angle, alignment definitely affects the readings because we use closer/farther to determine this number. But with spin, it's more like "where is the ball's rotation here compared to how it was there". And for that, I would be very surprised to hear that tilt or alignment of the unit would have that much effect.
                          Sure but if you do the math that defines the spin axis. Trajectory algorithms expect spin axis to be relative to the gravitational vector. If the unit assumes the gravitational vector then it needs to be level. If it measures and corrects for it then the unit can be tilted.

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