Software for live swing analysis?

[Shardak]

For the folks buying IDS, Allied Vision etc cameras..do you need any special interface card, or will a standard USB 3 port on a laptop work? I have a Macbook Pro 2015 version that I would like to use.

I did order the PS Eye camera for $5 on amazon, I am going to use that with Kineova for a cheap solution until I figure out the best path forward. It should to 640x480@75fps, for $5 + shipping. Not a bad deal.

[Shardak]

I have received my PS3 Eye cameras. I ordered 2 of them. It took some trial and error, but I have them both setup and functioning using Kinovea.

Its a surprisingly awesome setup for $13 total. Dual cameras (640x480@75 fps), capturing down-the-line and front facing views. Kineova works well.

At some point I may upgrade the cameras to something like this:

Basler Ace acA1300-200uc
1280x1024 @ 200fps
$475 each

https://machinevisionstore.com/catalog/Details/1261

Here a shot of Kineova. Yes the cameras are darkish, and grainy. And 75fps is not enough to eliminate blur of the club. But for $13, its good enough to get pretty good general feedback on your swing. I am happy with how well it works.

I purchased the CLEye Driver to get the cameras to work with PC. It was $3.00 here: https://codelaboratories.com/downloads

[RFreund]

What operating system are you using? I downloaded the driver. The ps3 eye is found and I can access it thru the CL-Eye test. However, I'm struggling with Kinovea finding the camera. Did you have any issues? (I have Windows 10)

[Shardak]

I have been searching online for different camera options to use with Kinovea.

I found a supplier in Massachusets, 1stVision, that carries all the IDS cameras. I have a quote for $590 for the UI-3140CP camera (1280x1024 @224 fps).

http://www.1stvision.com/cameras/IDS/UI-3140CP.html

I also found a good ebay deal on Computar lenses (thanks to OneHanpicap's comment earlier in this thread)..$39 each for Computar H2Z0414C-MP 4-8mm new in box. BHPhoto has these for $150.

I am going to order one camera and make sure it works with my setup (Macbook Pro 2015 running windows 10 with Kinovea). Will probably get a 2nd camera after the holidays.

[awisnia]

Great thread! I've been playing with cameras and V1 trying to get my own Golftec-like setup working. In the end, I'm still using http://www.swingprofile.com/ it's pretty incredible for a few bucks a month. I have a tablet holder on a tripod with the forward facing camera doing the filming. I take a swing, and it loops back automatically. Trigger is via video recognition, or ball sound. The algorithms on the former are pretty impressive as you can simply point your ipad at a video of a pro's golf swing and it will automatically grab and dissect a swing sequence - then sync it to your swing for comparison.

Very impressive - Wish these guys would evolve into a two camera PC system.

Worth a look.

[p3eps]

I've got my cheap 120fps camera from eBay today, and will hopefully get a chance to test it out tonight. Fingers crossed it's good enough to see the mechanics of my swing, otherwise I'll have to fork out for an IDS!

[Boerdoc]

Great thread! I've been playing with cameras and V1 trying to get my own Golftec-like setup working. In the end, I'm still using http://www.swingprofile.com/ it's pretty incredible for a few bucks a month. I have a tablet holder on a tripod with the forward facing camera doing the filming. I take a swing, and it loops back automatically. Trigger is via video recognition, or ball sound. The algorithms on the former are pretty impressive as you can simply point your ipad at a video of a pro's golf swing and it will automatically grab and dissect a swing sequence - then sync it to your swing for comparison.

Very impressive - Wish these guys would evolve into a two camera PC system.

Worth a look.

I looked at this http://www.swingprofile.com and they do have a way to take both views and synchronize. Yes you have to take one and then the other, but the software syncs the motions. If you cannot be repeatable, then you should probably be working on that first. I hope to set this up this weekend and get a video for comparison to other systems.

[awisnia]

It's really impressive - SOOOO easy to use. I do wish they had a pc version for two cameras, but I use and love it. Depending on what you're working on, the single view is very satisfactory. The way it just pings, and then replays the swing for your is flawless tho.

[p3eps]

Good news... the £35 camera from eBay is pretty good. I was getting around 100fps from Kinovea, which was ideal for what I need. I'm able to check my wrist position, whether my hips rotate properly, and to make sure I'm not bending my arm at the top of my backswing.

The camera itself is simply a PCB, with a lens and a USB connection. I clamped mine into a small desk vice, and attached it to the racking in my garage:


When I used it with the lights on, it looked really good. Unfortunately, that's not how I play my simulator. I play in the dark, with a spotlight above my head. I fiddled with some of the settings, and made the picture brighter. It looks pretty poor... however it works, and the frames are very smooth.


The real downside for me is that the camera defaults to 1080p at 30fps. FSX only sees the camera's default setting, and has no way to choose a lower resolution / higher frame rate.
My next step is to set up Kinovea with an audio trigger like the rest of you have - and get a second monitor to show my swing on. I might also investigate getting a housing for the camera.

[p3eps]

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-1mm-Lens-L...=1683018849011

That's the one I have...

[inorkuo]

nice! i ordered one of those on ebay as well. i was concerned that the 2.1mm lens would have too much distortion. the 2.1mm lens i got for the ps3eye has a very noticeable fisheye look to it but you picture doesn't look distorted at all. is that 640x480? is there other software that can push tne camera to 120fps and kinovea can only do 100fps or is 120fps just not achievable?

[p3eps]

There is no fisheye as far as I can see.
It's running at 640 x 480 and 120fps, but Kinovea displays the frames as 99 or 100. I don't know how to get it any higher, but 100 is good enough for what I'm wanting.
I'm just disappointed I can't set the camera to default at that resolution / frame rate so that I can use it in FSX.

[Wigalo]

Wow, I was just about to order 2 of the $600 IDS cameras. These eBay cams look as though they may be better than good enough.

Maybe I'll order up a couple of these and see if I can get them dialed in with IR lighting.

@p3eps, any idea what the sensor size is or if the shutter is rolling or global? ...(Thanks Faulty)

[Shardak]

Here is a review of the ebay cam (OV2710 sensor) from the guy that wrote Kinovea: http://xn--1-2fa.fr/?p=110

The end of the review has some example videos which look very good.

The max FPS appears to be 100, even though it is advertised as 120.

Looks like pretty decent camera for the price.

[Wigalo]

This video capture software/cam combo decision has to be the hardest yet... After reading the review, I'm wondering if the IDS cams would be better, price not withstanding.

@Shardak...it looks like you have your IDS cams and are getting them integrated. Are you seeing anything close to 120fps? and if so at what resolution?

Also after reading the review from Joan and seeing p3eps' screenshot, do you have an opinion on your IDS vs the ebay cams based on cost vs value

[Shardak]

This video capture software/cam combo decision has to be the hardest yet... After reading the review, I'm wondering if the IDS cams would be better, price not withstanding.

@Shardack...it looks like you have your IDS cams and are getting them integrated. Are you seeing anything close to 120fps? and if so at what resolution?

Also after reading the review from Joan and seeing p3eps' screenshot, do you have an opinion on your IDS vs the ebay cams based on cost vs value

For $5, PS3 eye cams are a great value. The biggest issue is that it is a real pain to get them both working in Kinovea. You have to plug one in, start the software, open capture, then plug the other in, and start capture on it. And at least for me, the USB ports you select have to be in a certain order. But once you figure out the correct sequence, it works and is pretty good.

The cheap chinese ELP cams are a step up for sure. The image quality is alot better, and they apparently work well with Kinovea (even with multiple cams).

The IDS cameras are a big step up in performance and cost. I paid $620 for the camera with the tripod mount, and another $40 for a 4-8mm lens for it. It is a very good cam, just doesnt work with Kinovea. It works great with Swing Catalyst. Super sharp image, 170fps at 1280x1024.

I am working on adding IDS camera support to Kinovea. I had it working last night at different resolutions. 640x480 maxxed out at 250fps. 800x600 worked at up to 190fps, and 1280x1024 allowed about 100fps. Kinovea appears to use a slower method of capture that Swing Catalyst. SC uses Direct3d to directly render the camera image in the memory of your video card. Kinovea (as far as I can tell), requires that you grab individual frames and pipe them into memory. I think that is why I am getting better performance in Swing Catalyst.

It will likely be a few weeks before I can complete the Kinovea integration.

[Wigalo]

Thanks Shardak, great summary and info. I'll do more research and decide between the ids and elp's from china after you finish the integration with kinovea...hopefully you plan on sharing.

[Wigalo]

So after doing a bunch of reading, I think that I have settled on two IDS UI 3140 CP's. Swing Catalyst seems to be the most robust swing analysis software out there and I love that it integrates with GC2. The problem is the base price plus 2 camera license + Gc2 integration is just north of $100 per month. This is a justifiable expense for someone in the business, but a hard pill for me to swallow with the amount that I will be using it.

I sent them an email to see if they have a lifetime license key for private users (like allsport systems does). I definitely wouldn't mind spending more up front to own the software as opposed to spending 1200 bux per year indefinitely. No response to my email yet.

If Allsport Systems had GC2 integration, it would make for a much easier decision. Has anyone seen GC2 integration with any other swing analysis software?

[goatbarn]

PM me with the fee for lifetime license key from Allsport, if you could...

[rrobinson]

Were you able to get a price for a lifetime license for Swing Catalyst?

[Daddio]

Wigalo, do you think this is something I could use the GSA camera's for?
I would like to find a use for them. lol

[Wigalo]

Hey H...hope all is well man. Use them other than paper weights?!....well I'm not sure. Since I no longer have my cams, I can't get a model number, I think they are Pt Gray's, but if you can grab a model number, I'll check into it for you.

Since Martin's cams just needed to grab still pics, I'm guessing that they are on the cheaper end and NOT High Speed cams. I will figure it out if you get me a model number though.

[Wigalo]

@Goatbarn....I just reviewed the forum rules. I'm pretty sure I am safe to post price info here, so I'll do that for everyone's benefit.


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