Mevo + fade biased?

[Wormburner]

I posted a few days ago that Mevo+ is reading long. With input from forum I think it’s the mat knocking off spin. I took mevo+ to the range to test outdoors. Readings were awesome. Distances and ball spin were on point. I have noticed my M+ indoors seems to be fade biased but not terrible. I would feel like I was hitting bigger draws and ball would barely move left on screen. So today I wanted to test out left and right accuracy of M+. Distance and backspin great but not one ball read correct on shot pattern. Every ball read a fade or a slice and most all were draws or fairly straight. Any one else had issues?

[keither5150]

That is odd that your two images that show SA are showing draw spin. 2.3 degrees SA to the left is a baby draw..... which could be mistaken for a straight shot.... Once you get to about 6-12 degrees of SA, the shot shape is more noticeable. Your graphics look like they are backwards compared to the data.

[Wormburner]

Your right, data does not match shot shape. Data is accurate but shot illustrations are off.

[Gresh12]

Really odd but appears to be an issue with drawing shot not the data. I didn’t notice anything like that in my one time using it outside. But I was rushed and it was day one with the unit on a huge cross wind so I’m not sure I’d have picked it up.

[Dax]

You might want to contact pwade3 he seems to have done a lot of testing this past weekend with his unit.

[Wormburner]

I just sent him a message, thanks!

[pwade3]

Oh man. I only wish I had that problem. My problem is much worse. If mine showed any kind of left spin axis I would a very happy camper. 🥳
Wormburner I PM’d you back.
In a nut shell, outside mine works great. No issues. Seems very accurate and the FS app would corespond with the shown data and the actual ball flight.
Indoors, not so much. Still a very large right axis and erratic VLA. No reads on 10% of shots.

[pwade3]

I’ve asked for a replacement. FS response was................. oh, right, they did not respond. As of today I have a cdn FS rep helping so I’m not sure. Guess I have to learn how to play a slice.

[Bubba22]

In my opinion, you should be given a new unit.

[pwade3]

Thanks. If they don’t give me a new replacement or at least commit to that when stock allows, I am going to have it independently tested.

[pwade3]

Now that I think about it, its probably the direction of orientation when setting up the app in outdoor mode. You open the app, then set outdoor mode, it will sync the local weather, then you need to let the app know the direction you will be hitting balls too. If you get that backwards and you have a crosswind, then you will probably get what you are getting because it’s compensating for the wind coming from the wrong direction. Don’t know for sure, but its possible.

[tonybrown32]

I was thinking the same... if those are outdoor results, Mevo+ does bring in the wind and environmental conditions if using a device with cellular connection... my iPad doesn't, so I had to set the environmental items I wanted to use manually on iPad without cellular connection.

[Wormburner]

I think it was trying to calculate the wind, which is pretty neat but it did a poor job of doing it. I did set the app up the direction i was hitting. wind was left to right and my shot shape on app is left to right. My actual shot shape was not affected as bad as app registered. You can see the data reads a draw and the actual shot was still a slight draw or fairly straigh but not falling to the right of the target like it showed. Is there a way to turn weather conditions off on app? I dont think they have the right formula for wind variable yet due to what I saw yesterday. Either way I will keep testing and also will let you know about driver indoors as soon as I get set up.

[tonybrown32]

Certainly sounds like it brought in environmental conditions/wind that didn't match the actual wind where you were, it could also be it got a bad GPS location for you, or you are more sheltered from wind at your range, but Mevo+ doesn't account for those.. it just grabs local weather data like pressure, temperature, and wind speed and uses it... not the actual wind in your location.. so the wind is an estimate from what it pulls from local internet weather stations.. lets say it a 20mph left to right wind day according to accuweather, but your range is sheltered by a row of pine trees on the left.. might show more impact from the wind on your Mevo+ than you are seeing...

Agree it's a nice feature on calm days, but could see it having a difficult time with accuracy depending on your range layout or local environment perhaps..

[tonybrown32]

That is strange it's drawing curvature opposite of the spin axis... hmm.. haven't seen anyone mention that issue yet.

I will say that I feel the Mevo+ also has a right spin axis bias indoors, but it draws the ball flight correctly... it is just difficult to get my Mevo+ to show left spin axis when the HLA is right of center. It's improved quite a bit since Flightscope recalibrated it, but still apparent... If I start my ball left of center (left HLA) there are no problems drawing the ball or having left spin axis.. in fact, the vast majority of my shots starting left of center will show the usual amount of left spin axis expect or play on course.

If I start the ball right of center however (right HLA), draw spin/left SA is rare.. and if I do get any is generally less than 5 degrees Left SA, usually 1-3 degrees. This has been generally acceptable with irons, as the ball doesn't have much curvature, so distances and lateral deviation are within reason... but when I get to woods/driver, where my misses are toe shots that start out with larger right HLA numbers... the more right spin axis is shown. I don't have a ton of curvature on my shots outside... and when I do, small draw with driver is my shot shape... yes the ocasional block/hold off fade, but usually draw.. I find it very difficult to hit a draw starting right of center with driver on Mevo+ indoors. I'm usually seeing right spin axis of 5-15 degrees on the majority of driver shots... bad toe shots, that start right, and usually gear back toward center show as much as 20 degrees right spin axis, where I'd usually see those draw back on course, or just stay straight.

Now, before my recalibration, indoors I would be seeing 20-40 degree right spin axis regularly, and could not keep a ball on the fairway in E6 which was frustrating. My VLA showed 20.0 on 95% of my mid and higher lofted iron shots, which was strange.... It's much better and playable now after recalibration, but the I feel the right spin axis is still there, notably in fairway woods and driver.. perhaps because those clubs will have more gear effect, and radar does struggle with spin indoors in particular with gear effect.. so it's not surprising.

Iron total spin seems about right to me.. but I get erratic and high total spin numbers indoors with driver.. also expected, as radar struggles with spin indoors as ball speed increases due to the limited flight.. I have 9' of ball flight from tee to screen and use the metal dots, so should be plenty, but I see 3000-4000 spin regularly, and just the occasional 2500-2900 total spin, and occasional 1400-1800 spins as well.. I usually have about 2500-2900 spin on GCQuad at my lessons... on quad I'll see around 2500-2900 regularly and just an occasional 3300-3800 spin on bad misses... so I take driver with a grain of salt right now, but can easily adjust for on course play since I'm not trying to dial in distances or be precise with driver.... and after moving my Mevo+ to the floor, I'm seeing my carry distance back up to 220-230 with driver which is about right for me, perhaps a few yards short due to the excess spin shown.. but much better than the 210-215 carry I was seeing last week with Mevo+ on foam tiles built up to the same height as my mat.

The two things I've done this past week with my indoor setup that have moved my results closer to what I see on the course are as follows...

1. Set my Mevo+ at 7' behind my ball, but in the FS Golf app, I set my distance to 8' instead... no clue why, but fewer misreads, and VLA/Distances moved closer to what I see on course, or remember from my GCQ lessons
2. Placed my Mevo+ directly on the floor instead building up a 2" platform with foam tiles to get it level with my Fiberbuilt hitting mat. After moving Mevo+ to the floor, and setting the tee height to 2" in the fS Golf App, my VLA was slightly higher, saw more draw spin on irons, and gained a little distance (previously felt my Mevo+ was about 5 yards short in mid irons, 10 yards short with driver, but assumed perhaps inability to set altitude to 1000ft or cool temperatures where the reasons why, but apparently not)

Play around with those setups and see if it makes any difference for you.

I'd love to get my Mevo+ to the driving range and give it a go outside again to validate but ranges are still closed here even though courses are open... weird right? (pre-calibration it was spot on outdoors... just had short indoor had spin and launch angle calibration issues):

[Wormburner]

I will definitely try a few different set ups. When you say recalibrate, did you have to send M+ back? FS support sent me this recommended set up I attached. This shows that they want the ball left of target line when hitting and right of target line when putting. Once i get my Sim built I can play with set up more but I am just limited at the moment. I hate to hear that drivers are misreading. Hopefully I can give feedback soon.

[tonybrown32]

Look forward to your experience with driver indoors... pwade3 and myself both seem to experience more right spin axis than we see on course, in particular when the ball starts right of center. We both seem to have similar shot patterns being, inside out path, and play a draw or mild push draw.. I suspect Mevo+ uses face and path information in it's calculation of spin axis, and strikes off the toe/gear effect are more problematic than heel or center strikes, and my strikes are generally as smidge toe side of center on good strikes, and a goo bit out on the toe on misses..

Yes, Flightscope requested I send my Mevo+ back end of March due to the 20.0 VLA readings I was getting... after they assessed it, they said it needed a "parameter recalibration" and sent it back.. took about a month, since things were closed down in Orlando while they had it...

I've also reported the right spin bias to FS support as well back in March, and they did reply back with a comment that they are aware of some right spin bias in short indoor mode, and are looking into that.. so time will tell if it's something they are aware of, working on, and we will see some adjustments in any firmware updates.. so we shall see as time goes on.

That's a good graphic you shared, and I believe FS now includes that with the newly shipped Mevo+ . I plan to set up similarly once my space is finished and I can use the putting features.. right now, my Fiberbuilt mat is raised, so not conducive to putting, but then again, I'm not all that interested in putting on Mevo+... I set the E6 courses to just randomly assign out the number of putts once on the green anyway...

[Wormburner]

Flightscope support responded to a set up question I posted on their website. Below is my question and their response:

Daniel C: wrote:

I did get your email. Thanks for input. Question on the set up. I see in image sent to me that target line should go between the hitting surface and the putting surface correct? I should not line target line directly in line with ball that we are hitting? I am asking because I have seen that mevo+ like to over read right spin axis especially if ball starts out right of target line. Will setting ball left of target line help read numbers more accurately? Is this something that a firmware update will fix? Thanks FS support.

FlightScope Mevo wrote:

That is the setup if you cannot putt from the hitting spot, which is likely, as you would need a smooth putting surface. That setup allows the Mevo to record the shots and the putts, without moving the unit. We are working on firmware to correct those spin issues. We would not recommend adjusting alignment to sort such issues.

[tonybrown32]

Well that is super encouraging that there is acknowledgement of a right spin axis issue, and work being done to resolve it via firmware!

pwade3 - hopefully good news for both of us.

[pwade3]

It’s going to have to be one heck of a firmware. As ball speed gets higher, the right axis/side spin gets worse. My 3 wood and driver are worse then the hybrid below. Unless I’m hitting short irons, mine is useless to me and will ruin my swing because I feel I have to straighten ball flight when I actually don’t have to. All other parameters were very close, except for where the ball ended up, I just did not write them all down as I was using E6 PC demo and it does not have history. Same numbers in FS app and skills app. I have tried every conceivable setup and removed everything metal and electronic in the room. Removed projector, PC. If it was environmental, why just the spin axis? Why not one of the other data points.

[pwade3]

I will add. Mine is not necessarily fade bias. Mine just can’t seem to read spin axis/side spin. It just can’t pick it up properly. What are the chances of having a zero side spin that many times in a row. Not possible. If hit right of target, impossible to have left spin with longer clubs. Fade bias only because spin axis is so inaccurate.

[tonybrown32]

I submitted my findings to FS Mevo Support email box today, to ensure it's on their radar, and it's not just 1-2 persons experience... Maybe I will get a more detailed reply and I'll update here if I do. I have a feeling it's just an algorythm tweak needed, so I'm keeping hope alive its fixable in firmware! I agree, Driver is the worst with right spin axis bias for me as well.. wedges are fine, mid irons are ok, but soon as I get to fairway woods and driver, I see essentially zero left spin axis if the ball starts right of center line. I also suspect those with a more severe in to out path see this more often than those more out to in. But just my theory as to why not everyone notices or sees this right spin bias.. on their units. Most guys I know, have more of an over the top or out to in path.. which creates right spin axis.. so no real noticeable differences in flight for those folks if they already play a fade..

My Mevo+ however is much improved since re-calibration by Flightscope... My VLA issue is completely solved, but right spin axis bias is still there and noticeable although reduced some. It does make it hard to work on driver practice, or play sim golf when the ball isn't going where it should be compared to how I play outside.

Quite happy with the other metrics though right now after some adjustments to setup like putting Mevo+ on the floor and settling in at a good overall distance behind the ball that works for my setup. Aligning in FS Golf before playing in E6 has also helped.

One other thing I noticed in regards to no reads that just popped in my head... I was playing with 3 wood last night, swapping some shafts and heads to see if there was benefit to playing one over the other (trying to eek out 5 more yards from the 3w to fill a gap). Right now I have the Mevo+ under a resin craft table, and works just fine, but I put my G400 club head on the front of the table to hit a few shots with the old G30 head I have... and started getting many no reads.. several in a row.. just all of a sudden..

The club head was on the table just above the mevo, maybe 3-5 inches in front of it, about 25 inches above the top of the Mevo+. I moved the club head to the back of the table so it was behind the Mevo+ and all of the no reads stopped completely...

Funny I noticed that last week too and forgot about it, as I had that same club head in a clubhead cover so it wouldn't get scratched, and it was sitting on the ground out in front of me while I was hitting one day, and I forgot there was a 3w head in the cover.... I was getting all kinds of no reads, and then it hit me, there may be a club head in that cover on the floor, and sure enough... moved it out of the way and all the no reads went away.

I think we may need to be careful about where we put our bags when playing... keep them out of the radar cone as much as possible.

To your point though pwade3, if there was interference issues from the environment, I suspect you or I would see increased no reads, rather than having interference affecting one data parameter like spin axis... just like my experience with that 3w head too close to the Mevo+ radar cone.

[Wormburner]

Pwad3, do you feel that your M+ is accurate with all irons?

[pwade3]

Irons seem fine with the higher lofted clubs. As swing speeds/ball speeds increase, I see a spin axis/side spin that is bias to the right and unreliable. It’s incremental with each club. As I move up in clubs it gradually gets worse. With say a sand wedge, the spin axis numbers are within allowable (for me) tolerances. 8 iron and above are unacceptable to me. All other data points are fine and very close at times with the exception for lateral destination of course but thats a result of the spin axis input.

[Gresh12]

I'm looking forward to a98cr125 doing some hybrid, 3wood and driver testing against his Uneekor. The quick first test looked pretty darn good on spin between the two of them (actually everything in general but I suspect Uneekor was a bit high on VLA and Mevo+ maybe a touch low on sidespin based on the numbers he got and my perceived weaknesses of the two types of technology). His ball flights seem pretty spot on with his Mevo+ including push draws.

I am likely going to be able to put my Mevo+ up against Trackman next week indoors but I worry this test will be a mess given the two could interfere with each other and neither will get to sit perfectly behind the ball I don't think to give them both line of sight.

I am really curious on the difference between the re-calibration versus just a firmware update when that happens (if those are somewhat redundant but only time will tell I suppose). My unit still feels pretty good to me for shape but I do have a hard time hitting a push draw even when I try really hard (granted it's not my stock shot anymore).

[pwade3]

All these units (Mevo+) are not the same or the same as mine. a98cr125 unit works quite well. Chatted with him and watched his videos. You can see how well his unit works. Flawless. And he has a high ball speed. He can hit a driver draw and his numbers match up really well with his HD Golf LM. I have talked to other owners and they don’t have the problem that I and tonybrown32 have. They have told me they can start a driver right of center and turn it back to center.
I look forward to your comparison with TM. If I remember you have a high club head speed so it will be a good test. If you can do a push draw with your driver, I don’t want to hear about it! Lol 😆 (just jealous)

[Gresh12]

I take weekly lessons on Trackman that looks like we’ll be able to restart next week. If I can get a setup that registers decent for both devices I can do some tests on various things over time during my warm up.

I also ordered a net for the back yard so I can swing my longer clubs. I think it’s going to take awhile to get made and shipped right now so that may be a ways off. Nice other perk is I’ll get about 11’ or 12’ of ball flight (my limit will mainly be launch angle vs the joist the net will hang from.

I’ve struggled to get big push draws on mine. I have launched it right with left spin but rarely enough to make it turn back. I actually rarely see spin axis of more than 10* in either direction but This is also consistent with my on course play right now (I’m struggling to move the ball much even when I need to shape around a tree). I can’t rule out if it’s me or the machine yet.

[a98cr125]

Much more coming with Uneekor and a Mevo+ for sure. I had to settle everyone down with a first look comparison to keep my inbox from exploding hahaha. Thanks for watching!

[Dax]

Gresh12 Can't comment on the interference, but suspect they should have different frequencies and so all should be good. In terms of set-up, the TM should be ok if you have it offset a little from the target line (its set-up should be more flexible than the Mevo+) and so this should not be too much of an issue as well. I would just make sure you have it offset to the opposite of the side from where the person is hitting from. Thus for a righty, having the TM offset to the right should be fine.