Practice and Swing training w/ GC2/HMT

[Wundej]

Hi All,
I've had a Flightscope X2 for a few years and I enjoy the Skills and VX apps. Skills is a nice practice tool. I now have a GC2/HMT with FSX 2018 on the way. I was torn between the GC2/X3/TM4. I went with the GC2/hmt since I'll be using it mostly indoor, otherwise it would have probably been the X3.

I don't know a ton about the FSX and other Foresight software.

1. Is there a way that I can setup my "bag" like you can with Flightscope so I can have it ready for when the stuff arrives?
2. What (if any) options are there for similar distance training like the Skills app where you can vary distances and score yourself?
3. What are the options are there for swing video recording / combining with shot/club data similar to the X3 and TM4? I would love to have a down-the-line and side view if possible.
4. Any other general feedback on getting started with either the app or FSX 2018 and the other practice tools from Foresight? Good guides, video links, etc?

Thanks!

[Steggy0726]

I don’t know much about FSX but the FR1 software used to have a gapping mode that you could do on the range or a course hole if you wanted. Hope this helps a little. I’m in the market for a monitor. What was your experience with Flightscope? I thought about picking up a used X2 for outside range time and what not. How did that unit compare to the GC2. Also do you have any first hand experience with the X3? Can’t find anything on it besides their site.

[LEO MODE]

I will finalize my findings very soon in July on a Foresight GC2 / GC Quad vs Trackman. It will be a very interesting one. Looks like wundej wanted to wait until my report but what I can tell you is you made a good choice regardless.

[Wundej]

I don’t know much about FSX but the FR1 software used to have a gapping mode that you could do on the range or a course hole if you wanted. Hope this helps a little. I’m in the market for a monitor. What was your experience with Flightscope? I thought about picking up a used X2 for outside range time and what not. How did that unit compare to the GC2. Also do you have any first hand experience with the X3? Can’t find anything on it besides their site.

Thanks for the info. FSX looks like it has some nice stuff, but there isn't a whole lot of in depth discussion about it. Obviously there is a lot of talk about the FSX sim capabilities, but not a whole lot on the training stuff.

Regarding the Flightscope. I like it a lot. the X2 is a very solid unit and I've been happy with it. I haven't used it even 10% of what I wanted to, mainly because I don't have a good place to swing. I don't have a ton of flat ground and can't really swing indoors at my house. I just poured a big patio in the back yard so I'll have a nice flat area to use soon. I really like Flightscope as a company, they build quality stuff, their apps are great, and honestly...a fraction of the cost of Trackman. People will argue all day long, but I think they made good stuff. I will say, over the last year there have been some software quality issues which they say are addressed now, but that was my big concern with the X3.

I don't have the GC2 yet (should be here on Tuesday). I expect to spend some time with them together. I am on the fence about keeping the X2 or selling it (also did consider trading it in for the X3 still and selling either the GC2/HMT or X3 depending on what worked out the best). If you are interested in the X2, let me know and maybe we can work something out. Honestly, if you are going to use it at the range, the X2 is going to be better because it will actually track your flight at the current conditions (so you get the effects of wind, temp, etc...maybe that isn't what you want though), get all the club data without dealing w/ HMT, etc. Again, everyone has an opinion, but for outdoors, I don't see any reason why people wouldn't want to use radar vs photo. It takes all the ball flight algorithms out of play and just tracks the actual flight.

I don't have any hands on experience with the X3. I wish I did, but I don't know anyone in the area that has one. My main reason for going with the GC2/hmt was that it will be mainly used indoors when I get my Sim room built, and I don't expect to go to the range much once I have my room setup. I really like the apps and software from Flightscope though, and the integrated camera on the X3 really had me weighing my options. I want to be able to capture my swing and easily store it w/ shot data, supposedly that can happen w/ external cameras and FSX. I need to do some digging though.

Does anyone have a good guide on using cameras to capture swings with the FSX (or FSX2018) software?

[Wundej]

I will finalize my findings very soon in July on a Foresight GC2 / GC Quad vs Trackman. It will be a very interesting one. Looks like wundej wanted to wait until my report but what I can tell you is you made a good choice regardless.

Yeah, I was hoping to see the review (I appreciate all the feedback you've posted on your experiences, it's great to have people who have access to the tools and share their feedback)...but then I decided that the TM4 wasn't for me at the moment. The fact that it was mainly going to be used indoors, and I wouldn't have had the flexibility to take it to the range without spending thousands more for the indoor/outdoor unit, and the fact that they cripple the software features if you aren't current on software subscription made it an easier decision. It would have been different if they locked you into the version of software that you were last current on, but the fact that they turn off features if you don't pay is annoying and a waste of investment imo. I hate software subscriptions, perpetual licensed products are so much better for the consumers.

[LEO MODE]

Yeah, I was hoping to see the review (I appreciate all the feedback you've posted on your experiences, it's great to have people who have access to the tools and share their feedback)...but then I decided that the TM4 wasn't for me at the moment. The fact that it was mainly going to be used indoors, and I wouldn't have had the flexibility to take it to the range without spending thousands more for the indoor/outdoor unit, and the fact that they cripple the software features if you aren't current on software subscription made it an easier decision. It would have been different if they locked you into the version of software that you were last current on, but the fact that they turn off features if you don't pay is annoying and a waste of investment imo. I hate software subscriptions, perpetual licensed products are so much better for the consumers.

I really wanted to post it as soon as possible as you weren't the only one waiting (originally by end of this month) which I really appreciate for those who liked my findings, but my mother got into an accident so I had to delay a lot of other personal stuff. She is getting better and I pretty much did all the testing already so I just have to put them all together in one piece document. All I can say is I hit literally at least 1000's of shots and put together a great amount of effort into this testing using 3 GC2's, 2 HMT's, 2 GC Quad's, 2 Trackman 4's and 1 Trackman 3e so this will be an interesting one.

Again, this can be a spoiler, but keep your X2 for now for outdoor purposes. You will know why when you see my findings but I'm sure you can wait for that for at least a month before trying to sell it

Lastly, you got it wrong about Trackman subscription. You did a very good choice for choosing GC2 as your main indoor simulator, but Trackman doesn't cripple your features if you're out of subscription. What the current subscription status gives you is the features that come out during that period. So for instance, like my case for an impact location which was available from April 2018, if your subscription ran out before April 2018 then you wouldn't be able to use the impact location. However, if your subscription ends on May 2018, you will still be able to keep that feature and use it forever as long as you have your Trackman. So they don't turn off features but they just disable you from using future features.

I do agree though that it is a lot of money. At the end of this year, Trackman is enabling an iPad simulator where you can play 18 holes outdoor with your iPad. So if your subscription is not up to date, then you wouldn't be able to use that either.

[Wundej]

I really wanted to post it as soon as possible as you weren't the only one waiting (originally by end of this month) which I really appreciate for those who liked my findings, but my mother got into an accident so I had to delay a lot of other personal stuff. She is getting better and I pretty much did all the testing already so I just have to put them all together in one piece document. All I can say is I hit literally at least 1000's of shots and put together a great amount of effort into this testing using 3 GC2's, 2 HMT's, 2 GC Quad's, 2 Trackman 4's and 1 Trackman 3e so this will be an interesting one.

Again, this can be a spoiler, but keep your X2 for now for outdoor purposes. You will know why when you see my findings but I'm sure you can wait for that for at least a month before trying to sell it

Lastly, you got it wrong about Trackman subscription. You did a very good choice for choosing GC2 as your main indoor simulator, but Trackman doesn't cripple your features if you're out of subscription. What the current subscription status gives you is the features that come out during that period. So for instance, like my case for an impact location which was available from April 2018, if your subscription ran out before April 2018 then you wouldn't be able to use the impact location. However, if your subscription ends on May 2018, you will still be able to keep that feature and use it forever as long as you have your Trackman. So they don't turn off features but they just disable you from using future features.

I do agree though that it is a lot of money. At the end of this year, Trackman is enabling an iPad simulator where you can play 18 holes outdoor with your iPad. So if your subscription is not up to date, then you wouldn't be able to use that either.

First, glad to hear your mother is recovering. That's way more important than any trivial launch monitor test. Your efforts are definitely appreciated, it's not easy to capture and organize *accurate* data. There are so many variables with these units so getting good info from people that actually understand those variables and minimize their impact on testing is priceless for people like us who want unbiased reviews. Unfortunately so many people biased these days, even if they have no reason to be.

Looks like we have different feedback on the TM features. I explicitly asked what happens if subscription lapses for software. This is the response from my rep. He clearly stated that there is a loss of specific functionality like Performance Putting, Impact Location, Simulation (just the Trackman sim, TGC or E6 would still work) and the online items like screencasts, Tour player library. Attached is a pic showing the differences. Maybe this isn't enforced, but they obviously have some marketing materials that clarify it.

[LEO MODE]

You are right on the golf simulator game but impact location is something I heard differently and it was stated as such on trackman website faq about impact location. I will ask the rep about that.

For all other features yes you do lose them so you are correct. Player library and screencast wasn’t necessary for me so I guess I overlooked in that and misinformed you if you needed them. For me data features were the most important features.

Lastly for unbiased testing you can trust that my findings are 150% unbiased. I don’t work for either company and I bought them both, because I just wanted the most closest to accurate launch monitor possible. As I said you will see my next findings very interesting.

[Steggy0726]

Thanks for the info. FSX looks like it has some nice stuff, but there isn't a whole lot of in depth discussion about it. Obviously there is a lot of talk about the FSX sim capabilities, but not a whole lot on the training stuff.

Regarding the Flightscope. I like it a lot. the X2 is a very solid unit and I've been happy with it. I haven't used it even 10% of what I wanted to, mainly because I don't have a good place to swing. I don't have a ton of flat ground and can't really swing indoors at my house. I just poured a big patio in the back yard so I'll have a nice flat area to use soon. I really like Flightscope as a company, they build quality stuff, their apps are great, and honestly...a fraction of the cost of Trackman. People will argue all day long, but I think they made good stuff. I will say, over the last year there have been some software quality issues which they say are addressed now, but that was my big concern with the X3.

I don't have the GC2 yet (should be here on Tuesday). I expect to spend some time with them together. I am on the fence about keeping the X2 or selling it (also did consider trading it in for the X3 still and selling either the GC2/HMT or X3 depending on what worked out the best). If you are interested in the X2, let me know and maybe we can work something out. Honestly, if you are going to use it at the range, the X2 is going to be better because it will actually track your flight at the current conditions (so you get the effects of wind, temp, etc...maybe that isn't what you want though), get all the club data without dealing w/ HMT, etc. Again, everyone has an opinion, but for outdoors, I don't see any reason why people wouldn't want to use radar vs photo. It takes all the ball flight algorithms out of play and just tracks the actual flight.

I don't have any hands on experience with the X3. I wish I did, but I don't know anyone in the area that has one. My main reason for going with the GC2/hmt was that it will be mainly used indoors when I get my Sim room built, and I don't expect to go to the range much once I have my room setup. I really like the apps and software from Flightscope though, and the integrated camera on the X3 really had me weighing my options. I want to be able to capture my swing and easily store it w/ shot data, supposedly that can happen w/ external cameras and FSX. I need to do some digging though.

Does anyone have a good guide on using cameras to capture swings with the FSX (or FSX2018) software?

Yeah man we can definitely talk about the X2 if you are interested in getting rid of it. I actually just put in for a GC2/HMT today. How long does it take to get? I am really use to GC2 I was a fitter for almost 5 years and it’s what we used. I wish we really had HMT during that time though would have made it even better. We only had the FR1 software though. Always thought though that the navigation and all that was easy to use. Setting up some cameras would be good though for sure. I’ll do some research and see what I can dig up.
As for the whole radar and photo argument, a friend and I go back and forth on this all the time. Depending on what you are using it for and where makes a huge impact. The beauty of GC2 with HMT is you get to see what the camera sees as it strikes the ball. So unless there is a calibration or setup issue then you get the best numbers (at least in theory) as you know since I have never used one with HMT. As in regards to radar the unit sits behind the impact location so it does not see what the club coming into the ball and impact area really looks like especially since none of these clubs really look exactly alike. With drivers the bulge and roll are all different. You have some that have extra stuff on the top or on the back so on and so forth. So how is the radar really able to gauge what the club face is and path and all that? Does it calculate it based on how the ball starts? Like I and pretty much everyone on this forum has always said in regards to what unit to choose we have to look at what we are lookin in terms of what we are using it for. I want something for inside and outside that is going to give me quality and accurate club data with something I can play simulation rounds with when I didn’t have time for a course round or weather was crappy. Then be able to take it outside easily and get some great ball readings and all that in real weather situations but I feel that unit does not exist yet. I have hit with Trackman indoors at two different places and granted one unit was an older unit so it really doesn’t count. The other one I believe was a Trackman 3 or 3e not 100% sure but I got some really weird readings from it with a driver indoors. Now that could also be from the guy not knowing how to really set it up which I hope is not the case since he is a club fitter/builder who has been doing it for years, but sometimes that doesn’t matter. As for irons on that indoor Trackman can’t recall very well but I want to say it gave me some extra yardage on quite a few shots. I have hit on a Flightscope Xi+ I believe at the TAylorMade club in Dallas during a fitting seminar and thought it was a fantastic unit. I really want a radar for outside range time to get real time flights with what I see on inside practice. I have a Mevo and it works ok just so hard to line up since the window is so small for the aiming.

sorry for the long book I’m writing btw hahaha.

And Leo Mode I am glad your mother is getting better as well. I’m a FF/medic in my hometown and I tell you what. You do not want a family member to ever be in nursing home or assisted care facility. They are terrible and too expensive for the kind of care they give to ppl who can’t help themselves.

I do appreciate all the work you have done as well on all these LMs. I’m sure it has been a long and painful road especially with all the issues you have ran into. I’m looking forward to your review for sure. Still would like to talk more about a radar unit for outside hitting and what you think would be best. Hope to hear back from you guys.

later
Steggy

[Youngsun Kim]

perfect insight about launch monitors.

[LEO MODE]

First, glad to hear your mother is recovering. That's way more important than any trivial launch monitor test. Your efforts are definitely appreciated, it's not easy to capture and organize *accurate* data. There are so many variables with these units so getting good info from people that actually understand those variables and minimize their impact on testing is priceless for people like us who want unbiased reviews. Unfortunately so many people biased these days, even if they have no reason to be.

Looks like we have different feedback on the TM features. I explicitly asked what happens if subscription lapses for software. This is the response from my rep. He clearly stated that there is a loss of specific functionality like Performance Putting, Impact Location, Simulation (just the Trackman sim, TGC or E6 would still work) and the online items like screencasts, Tour player library. Attached is a pic showing the differences. Maybe this isn't enforced, but they obviously have some marketing materials that clarify it.

Check out the email sent out from Trackman back in May 22. This was sent officially from Trackman. It states that impact location will be kept forever as long as the subscription ends after Apr 2018, but simulator course is indeed only when subscription is active. You should talk to the sales rep again and refute about this. If they changed it, I will complain to Trackman HQ about this because I did pay for the subscription.

[Wundej]

Check out the email sent out from Trackman back in May 22. This was sent officially from Trackman. It states that impact location will be kept forever as long as the subscription ends after Apr 2018, but simulator course is indeed only when subscription is active. You should talk to the sales rep again and refute about this. If they changed it, I will complain to Trackman HQ about this because I did pay for the subscription.

Not really surprised that there is conflicting info out there. The image I posted was from Trackman, so somewhere there is a discrepancy.

The other really big thing is the Performance Putting apparently goes away as well.

At this point I don't care because I have the GC2/hmt coming on Tuesday.

[LEO MODE]

Interesting that it says putting goes away too. As far as I know putting doesn't go away either. I was out of subscription for the past 6-7 months before and my putting was there. However because putting club data came out after my subscription expired, I wasn't able to get the club data. I don't think putting data and impact location would go away. If they do I will be extremely mad and possibly talk to Trackman about this, as I will lose a lot of interest in using Trackman if they push things like this.

[LEO MODE]

And Leo Mode I am glad your mother is getting better as well. I’m a FF/medic in my hometown and I tell you what. You do not want a family member to ever be in nursing home or assisted care facility. They are terrible and too expensive for the kind of care they give to ppl who can’t help themselves.

I do appreciate all the work you have done as well on all these LMs. I’m sure it has been a long and painful road especially with all the issues you have ran into. I’m looking forward to your review for sure. Still would like to talk more about a radar unit for outside hitting and what you think would be best. Hope to hear back from you guys.

later
Steggy

Thanks a lot for your kind words. I am always open to discuss about launch monitors as this is my hobby outside of work. Feel free to message me. You ordered a great unit for your home use.