GC2 New Build Confusion

[Gowster]

Hi guys,
I've been trying to read all of these forums and the Ottawa forums trying to get as smart as I can. I also spent 90 minutes on the phone with foresight trying to get smart on the GC2. The more I've learned the less I know!
I would love to get some guidance on some key topics, as I am in the middle of a build out in my basement that includes a large simulator room, 15x24 allocated in the space.
Flooring: I would like to have the entire area in turf, and I can find several sources of 15' wide product but would like recommendations. I'm stuck deciding if I should build the whole floor up by 3" or more to allow the addition of any floor sensors or even if I should allow for the hitting mat to be recessed to have a constant finished carpet height across the whole room?
When I see the hitting mats that include fairway, sand trap and rough, I think they are appealing, but with GC2 it seems like they are not an option. I was even thinking about an automated mechanism that put the GC2 on rails that moved it to stay aligned with the proper hitting area, but it seems like overkill. Any thoughts? This was something that had me thinking GSA was the good answer but after reading all the challenges, that may be a bridge too far. I had been thinking PX5.
But I came back to GC2, and I like the looks of the tee marker version, even if I can't take it outside. Any concerns with it?
Then I get to projectors. I really want 1080p at a minimum, and it seems like the Optima XT1080 is the only real option for a short throw. I didn't like the idea of a projector behind me because I can't get it high enough to prevent shadows. I would have loved a 4K until I saw the prices! When I talked to Foresight, they said their minimum lumens output is 4000, but most that I can find in short throw seem to max out at 2800 or 3000. I wanted to know what you guys are using?
The next big thing that has me very concerned comes from my conversation with Justin at foresight. He indicated that the ability to run non foresight sanctioned software with a GC2 was only a firmware change away from being stopped. It seems so clear that TGC is the right answer, but it scared me that I could be locked out if I get a gc2? Then I think I saw a protee rep say within the last week that they won't provide TGC a without a hardware purchase, but is it right that that would not include GC2 in the future? HELP!
Thanks for all of the great forums, and in advance for advice. I will take a photo record of my buildout and post it here over the coming couple months.
From -10F in upstate NY and eager to golf...

[Maverick]

No need to build a fancy platform. To keep cost down, I would suggest using cheap $50-100 stance mats for your standing area and then just get a small section of Realfeel or a Truestrike insert. Place these small hitting surfaces in between your left and right stance mats. Most GC2/launch monitor users do it this way.

For me, I use 2 P3pro stance mats with a 1/2" 4'X4' MDF board underneath each one. You can go to a Home Depot and have them cut an 4X8' MDF in half and you'll have 2 boards, one for each side. My stance mats are attached to the MDF board using carpet tape. Underneath each MDF board, I stuck 6 self sticking round thin cushions. The cushions will help keep the board from moving around.

Just make sure your finished stance mat will be at the same level of your hitting insert material. A 1X3' section of ReelFeel mat is sandwiched in between the two stance mats.

Also, if using TGC, those rough and sand mats won't work. TGC has built in penalties for those lies.

[DGThread]

I know I said I would refrain from posting, but reading this thread I need some clarification.

So to play TGC on a GC2 one would now need to buy the entire Protee hardware AND software? Isn't that a price of $6000!?

[SFR]

This is only my thoughts and nothing is confirmed but I think it may be close:

Following this post and others about possible options for sim play, it looks like you no longer will be able to just buy TGC on its own as software. So future GC2 owners will no longer be able to buy and play TGC. You can still buy a protee system and play as they are now, or you can buy a system with another partner that they have teamed up with and then get TGC with that system.

Also there has been thoughts that Protee was going to be making a new product that sounds a lot like a launch monitor and if that was almost ready then it would only reason to no longer need to boost sales in the GC2. I would think that there were several GC2 units bought because of TGC and if you got on board before now then good for you.

So I am thinking that this new unit is almost ready for the market and like Protee does always, they want to make sure they offer a product when it is ready for market along with its software and that a person will actually be able to use both when released and not have to wait for years after the actual release to play it.

So I would think that anyone looking to get a new system now, and seeing that the sim season is nearing the end in a couple months or less, you should wait on this new option and if it is not out by next fall then look at other options.

[wbond]

Seems logical. I wonder what their price point will be if this is the case.

This is only my thoughts and nothing is confirmed but I think it may be close:

Following this post and others about possible options for sim play, it looks like you no longer will be able to just buy TGC on its own as software. So future GC2 owners will no longer be able to buy and play TGC. You can still buy a protee system and play as they are now, or you can buy a system with another partner that they have teamed up with and then get TGC with that system.

Also there has been thoughts that Protee was going to be making a new product that sounds a lot like a launch monitor and if that was almost ready then it would only reason to no longer need to boost sales in the GC2. I would think that there were several GC2 units bought because of TGC and if you got on board before now then good for you.

So I am thinking that this new unit is almost ready for the market and like Protee does always, they want to make sure they offer a product when it is ready for market along with its software and that a person will actually be able to use both when released and not have to wait for years after the actual release to play it.

So I would think that anyone looking to get a new system now, and seeing that the sim season is nearing the end in a couple months or less, you should wait on this new option and if it is not out by next fall then look at other options.

[Gowster]

SFR- that seems logical. DGT- yes and no, it seems like you can spend half of what you said if you get the simplest system.
With that said, there has been a nuance on protee website since I started this thread. Day one, it said that the software was back ordered and you couldn't add to cart. But after placing a sensor in cart, the software could then also be added. Yesterday, the website changed and you can now just put the software in your cart. It made me wonder if I should jump back in as they changed rules back perhaps.
To confirm though, if I buy protee 2.0, it is in fact TGC, or contains TGC?

[p3eps]

If you buy ProTee, you can then email and ask for a licence code for TGC.

I don't know how they'd know what hardware you're using with ProTee? When I bought ProTee online I was given a download link. When you install it on your PC, it generates a unique code that you have to email back to ProTee. Within 24 hours, they reply with your licence code - which only works on that PC.
You can then email a different address and ask for a TGC licence. Again, download and install... then email them the code for your PC - and they send you a licence code.

At no point do you have to connect it to a TGC / ProTee system for the registration.

[Gowster]

Thanks P3!
Why isn't TGC just part of the download do you think?

A putting question... Do you guys putt in TGC? If so, do you do anything fancy with the mat system or just putt off the fairway lie and only care about direction and ball speed and not getting a clean roll? Does this hurt your real world putting?

[SFR]

Thanks P3!
Why isn't TGC just part of the download do you think?

A putting question... Do you guys putt in TGC? If so, do you do anything fancy with the mat system or just putt off the fairway lie and only care about direction and ball speed and not getting a clean roll? Does this hurt your real world putting?

I think it is so close to them releasing their new product that to rework the upload web stuff would be a waste of time. I would think they will do something like that when they release the new product. Remember the idea of TGC was only a "thought" less than a year ago. They have done wonders to get it to the point it is now and yes they could have waited years to release it and have everything perfect but they made a playable version for the sim in a short time and it may be more they just have not finished all the small parts yet. However a big part may be this new launch monitor. I have a GC2 and am even interested in what it will be like and what cost. One can never have too many toys...

As far as putting in TGC. You can adjust your putt speed to make it what you think is accurate for green speed. Once you have that set then you don't need the ball to move too far to have it read you putt speed and line on the GC2. In fact I think 6" or so would be about enough travel for it to have already set your line and ball speed. Protee uses another matt you putt over with a couple rows of sensors to pick up speed and line and might need a foot and a half or so. So the key is to have a flat spot to putt from and about a foot long min. for the GC2, and a bit longer I think for the Protee. I hit from the same pad that I putt off of and it can be an issue finding a nice combo that hits well off of and yet is level to putt from. My putts roll off my hitting area about 2 feet from where I start the putt so I never see the ball roll out or worry about that. Putting is the same in real life. All you need to do is hit a ball straight for the first 6 inches. After that you have no control over the greens and how the ball will roll or break. If you read the putt right with weight and line, then the only thing left was to hit it straight where you aimed. If you did that all right your putt will go in. It is the same on the TGC sim and for me what I thought was the right putt speed is what we tend to use for green speeds, and that is set at the time the course is made. That setting seems to be the 12 o'clock setting. To guess I would think we are putting at about 10 - 11 on the stimp. My home course may start the season out at an 8 or 9 and then build up to the 10 range.

What I notice most about my real life putting after being on the sim all winter is that I am better at hitting that putt straight where I want to. So then it become more of "did I read the green right" and hit the putt with the right weight. The weight part changes in real golf even during the round and you need to adjust for that as you play. Sim golf is better that way as it will not change from green to green like it can in real life.

[Gowster]

I'm doing mental gymnastics today on launch angles and screen heights. Off on a tangent so to speak (see if anyone gets the pun)...
My room is dictating a number of design choices that I don't like but am stuck with, due to placement of I beams below the joists.
I was heading down a path where my tee was 16' from the screen, and the screen height is max 9', but due to the projectors having a typical 12" or more vertical offset, it will result in screen height between 7.75 and 8.5'. Using say 8', at a distance of 16', the launch angle of a ball is in the 26-29 degree range (atan(0.5)), or about a 4-5 iron. Seems like everything more lofted is heading for my ceiling and not the screen? To get a sand wedge in play at 52 degrees I'd have to be around 6 or 7 feet from the screen (using 8 or 9 foot top of screen). Do you guys have similar issues? What geometries are you using?

[SFR]

I hit from about 7 to 8 feet from the screen. Even that close my 56 and 60 would clear the top of my screen that is about 8 feet high. A flop shot would never be possible without the overhead net I hang from the top of the screen. This net runs from the screen to just about where I hit from, so a 10' x 10' net was enough to have about 1 to 2 feet of it hang down the backside of the hitting screen with a couple of backup screens behind that. So even when a ball hits the netting overhead, it will slide along the net and some times go in behind the hitting screen as it deflects down. Then it just drops to the floor in between the backing screens and the main front screen. All my screen and netting are held in place with zip ties along a 3/4 conduit pipe. The only bad thing is the odd time a ball will hit the pipe and come back at you, so in a commercial setting that would not be good.

I also use a short throw projector on the floor so that the overhead net nor my shadow ever in the way. I also have a platform that sits just higher than the projector.

If you get a monitor that can read flop shots and putts, it is a must to have overhead netting. This is where the radar systems would suffer as there is no way for them to read a flop that is already 9 feet high and the ball has only moved 5 feet forward before it hit the overhead net. They need to see the ball for a much longer period to make an accurate read. However left and right play is much easier with one of them compared to a GC2.

[fhann]

A flop shot This is where the radar systems would suffer as there is no way for them to read a flop that is already 9 feet high and the ball has only moved 5 feet forward before it hit the overhead net. They need to see the ball for a much longer period to make an accurate read. However left and right play is much easier with one of them compared to a GC2.

Radar detection using a Flightscope and a metallic sticker on the golf ball should pickup the ball data for most flop shots. They usually spin around 7000 rpm and travel at 70 mph. This combination allows the ball to rotate approximately 5.5 revolutions in 5 feet of travel distance, which can be captured by the Flightscope launch monitor. Flightscope needs 2 revolutions of the metallic sticker to be read enabling ball capture data to be processed.

Flightscope had difficulty around 2010 and before capturing ball data when launched above 47 degrees from the horizontal because the ball travelled outside of the capture window. I have not measured flop shots indoors in my studio to see if the capture window has indeed been improved upon since I don't want to chance damaging my 9.25 foot high ceiling.

More distance is required when one encounters high speed/low spin situations such as 120 mph clubhead speed, smash factor of 1.5 and 2000 rpm ball spin. It is for this reason/condition whereby Flightscope publishes a minimum recommended distance for tee to impact screen of approximately 15 feet.

[Ronsc1985]

I'm doing mental gymnastics today on launch angles and screen heights. Off on a tangent so to speak (see if anyone gets the pun)...
My room is dictating a number of design choices that I don't like but am stuck with, due to placement of I beams below the joists.
I was heading down a path where my tee was 16' from the screen, and the screen height is max 9', but due to the projectors having a typical 12" or more vertical offset, it will result in screen height between 7.75 and 8.5'. Using say 8', at a distance of 16', the launch angle of a ball is in the 26-29 degree range (atan(0.5)), or about a 4-5 iron. Seems like everything more lofted is heading for my ceiling and not the screen? To get a sand wedge in play at 52 degrees I'd have to be around 6 or 7 feet from the screen (using 8 or 9 foot top of screen). Do you guys have similar issues? What geometries are you using?

First your launch angle is not the club loft. All iron shots I hit launch at least 5 or 6 degrees lower with the shorter clubs even more. I have a 9 foot high screen hitting from 9 feet away. I can hit a full on 56 degree wedge without hittng the top net. A 60 degree full on does hit the top net. As to flop shots I can hit some with a 60 providing I don't hit them very hard. If you want to use simple trig then first find the launch angle of whatever your highest lofted club is by getting really close to the net. If you have a GC2 here is no reason to be very far back from the screen unless you get in the way of the projector beam. In my case the projector is mounted to the cage crossbar at the entrance to the cage at 9 feet high with no problems.

[SFR]

Radar detection using a Flightscope and a metallic sticker on the golf ball should pickup the ball data for most flop shots. They usually spin around 7000 rpm and travel at 70 mph. This combination allows the ball to rotate approximately 5.5 revolutions in 5 feet of travel distance, which can be captured by the Flightscope launch monitor. Flightscope needs 2 revolutions of the metallic sticker to be read enabling ball capture data to be processed.

Flightscope had difficulty around 2010 and before capturing ball data when launched above 47 degrees from the horizontal because the ball travelled outside of the capture window. I have not measured flop shots indoors in my studio to see if the capture window has indeed been improved upon since I don't want to chance damaging my 9.25 foot high ceiling.

More distance is required when one encounters high speed/low spin situations such as 120 mph clubhead speed, smash factor of 1.5 and 2000 rpm ball spin. It is for this reason/condition whereby Flightscope publishes a minimum recommended distance for tee to impact screen of approximately 15 feet.

Great info as always. I did not know that it was more the revolutions of the ball that the radar systems need to be picked up.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Dax]

Radar detection using a Flightscope and a metallic sticker on the golf ball should pickup the ball data for most flop shots. They usually spin around 7000 rpm and travel at 70 mph. This combination allows the ball to rotate approximately 5.5 revolutions in 5 feet of travel distance, which can be captured by the Flightscope launch monitor. Flightscope needs 2 revolutions of the metallic sticker to be read enabling ball capture data to be processed.

Flightscope had difficulty around 2010 and before capturing ball data when launched above 47 degrees from the horizontal because the ball travelled outside of the capture window. I have not measured flop shots indoors in my studio to see if the capture window has indeed been improved upon since I don't want to chance damaging my 9.25 foot high ceiling.

More distance is required when one encounters high speed/low spin situations such as 120 mph clubhead speed, smash factor of 1.5 and 2000 rpm ball spin. It is for this reason/condition whereby Flightscope publishes a minimum recommended distance for tee to impact screen of approximately 15 feet.

Here is a screen capture that I did today showing a flop shot. This is the best I could do with my 56 degree wedge, but it does show the ability to read a high launching shot. The ball hit my ceiling net which is just a little over 8.5 feet high where the ball hit.

[Maverick]

I don't think 65 yard carry qualifies as a flop shot. To me, that's 3/4 SW. Open up your SW and try for a 20-25 yard carry with a LA above 55 degrees.