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**ROHRER** · 07-21-2016, 06:58 PM

Subscribed, newbie too. I also spoke with San Diego, $3k for software DAMN!😀

**Danielwt** · 07-21-2016, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by ROHRER View Post

Subscribed, newbie too. I also spoke with San Diego, $3k for software DAMN!😀

Yeah... The bad thing about it, is i'm also in a sales role. I have taken professional negotiations courses, been to every type of sales meeting you can imagine, learned form the "best in the business," etc... So EVERYTIME he throws a sales tactic at me, I can't help, but to think of how annoying it is. I'm an easy guy. Don't really try to 'discount' many things in life; big (huge) tipper, never complain (well; 99% of the time) about poor service, tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and NEVER use sales tactics without telling the victim that's exactly what I'm doing.. For example: I will tell you, "listen....I'm in sales....your purchase means my commission...so this is what I'm supposed to say...however, I hate sales pitches - so blah blah blah..." I think honesty/integrity/character go much further in sales than do tacky sales techniques and/or pitches, lol...

And guess what? Being "me" works... Really, REALLY, well.... People know when they're being 'sold to,' and I can tell you right now - people HATE being sold to. Being 'educated' is okay, but sold to is always insulting...

HOWEVER...when you're spending thousands of dollars on something, that you KNOW is marked up to allow for 'negotiations,' a "discount" is always in order. It's sad when someone is loses a sale, because they don't know how to read their client...

Anyways...hoping we can get some answers from these amazing forum members!

**Mxwoodman** · 07-21-2016, 07:26 PM

Options

If you don't want to hit into a screen you can get the IOS app and you don't need FSX or FR1 but they will charge you a SDK fee

I have FR1 and not sure FSX is any better if all you want to do is hit balls on a range, and I use FR1 range every day.

I think if you get the HMT you'll want to get FSX or FR1

But you'll end up with a impact screen and at some point want to play sim golf and if your going to buy courses from them get FSX
But there are the other options for sim golf TGC and PG

Also try and talk with different sales guys there they can deal with you and also talk with the P2P guys not sure how much they can deal but they are great to work with.

Good luck

**Danielwt** · 07-21-2016, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Mxwoodman View Post

Options

If you don't want to hit into a screen you can get the IOS app and you don't need FSX or FR1 but they will charge you a SDK fee

I have FR1 and not sure FSX is any better if all you want to do is hit balls on a range, and I use FR1 range every day.

I think if you get the HMT you'll want to get FSX or FR1

But you'll end up with a impact screen and at some point want to play sim golf and if your going to buy courses from them get FSX
But there are the other options for sim golf TGC and PG

Also try and talk with different sales guys there they can deal with you and also talk with the P2P guys not sure how much they can deal but they are great to work with.

Good luck

Mxwoodman Thanks for the response!

Did your (or do you know if) FSX (or FR1) software come(s) with ANY courses / driving range / etc.? My current rep didn't specify. Like I mentioned earlier - he comes across as all about sales...

And thanks for the recommendation on P2P. I'd rather go through someone like that, and pay extra, than deal with constant sales pitches/scripts...

**Mxwoodman** · 07-21-2016, 11:53 PM

They both come with a driving range, fitting software, and one course. FSX also has some other stuff you can go to their web site and see what else comes with it. P2P are great guys to work with they can help with anything you need, screens, netting, turf and any custom stuff you might need.

**fortysixandtwo** · 07-22-2016, 02:34 AM

Ok here's my take with how I use the gc2 with myself and my junior golfer who plays competitive tournaments. When I take the gc2 out to the range, we just either use the on screen info from the gc2 or sometimes we bring the ipad to see ball flight match up with down range flight...and it does.

Now when we practice at home, we were lucky enough to have a copy of the older fr1 software with the green dongle. We use this for 95% of our practice time. During the winter we messed around with TGC which is ok, and PG, which I like personally. I really only need the range software, we haven't even used a simulator course since spring. As far as the hmt, I think it's way, way overpriced and not worth it. You can figure out what's going on in your swing just from the regular gc2 data. I went to demo a club at a store which had trackman, and all it confirmed was what I already knew about my swing path, and clubface. It was nice seeing an actual number for angle of attack, but not for an extra 6,000 dollars.

My son has really improved with practicing with the gc2, and, VIDEO ANALYSIS. I think it's more important to see the swing than having an HMT and chasing numbers...get the right swing mechanics and sequencing and you will get the right numbers...

Find a used gc2 with fr1, or find the fr1 software. I'm sure the fsx range is good too, but they've had a lot of problems with all their course software and updates..

**Danielwt** · 07-22-2016, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Mxwoodman View Post

They both come with a driving range, fitting software, and one course. FSX also has some other stuff you can go to their web site and see what else comes with it. P2P are great guys to work with they can help with anything you need, screens, netting, turf and any custom stuff you might need.

Mxwoodman , thank you for the response! I've been on the FSX website, and whether (or not) it currently comes with a driving range (for free) is a bit confusing. Are you 100% positive that both the FSX & FR1 software options indeed come with a FREE driving range?

With regards to the courses: My rep indicated that the courses are $99/year. The natural follow up question to your response, then, is this: if FSX comes with one "free" course, would you happen to know if THAT free course will cost me $99/year; or is the "annual fee" in this case somehow overlooked...?

Thank you so much for your response on this!

**Danielwt** · 07-22-2016, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by fortysixandtwo View Post

Ok here's my take with how I use the gc2 with myself and my junior golfer who plays competitive tournaments. When I take the gc2 out to the range, we just either use the on screen info from the gc2 or sometimes we bring the ipad to see ball flight match up with down range flight...and it does.

Now when we practice at home, we were lucky enough to have a copy of the older fr1 software with the green dongle. We use this for 95% of our practice time. During the winter we messed around with TGC which is ok, and PG, which I like personally. I really only need the range software, we haven't even used a simulator course since spring. As far as the hmt, I think it's way, way overpriced and not worth it. You can figure out what's going on in your swing just from the regular gc2 data. I went to demo a club at a store which had trackman, and all it confirmed was what I already knew about my swing path, and clubface. It was nice seeing an actual number for angle of attack, but not for an extra 6,000 dollars.

My son has really improved with practicing with the gc2, and, VIDEO ANALYSIS. I think it's more important to see the swing than having an HMT and chasing numbers...get the right swing mechanics and sequencing and you will get the right numbers...

Find a used gc2 with fr1, or find the fr1 software. I'm sure the fsx range is good too, but they've had a lot of problems with all their course software and updates..

fortysixandtwo Awesome response! You guys seem to be using the GC2 for the EXACT same reason(s) I intend to...

Follow up questions for you, if you don't mind:
1) You mention that FR1 is the angle you'd take (if you were me). In your opinion, do you think that FSX will eventually make FR1 obsolete?

2) Is the driving range with FR1 'just as good' as the driving range with FSX (in you opinion; if applicable)?

3) Can you touch a bit on the added benefits of having FR1 (or any software for that matter), over simply/solely using the ipad application? In other words, if the GC2 is used strictly for practice purposes (99% of the time), what will the driving range (within software) do for me that the ipad application cannot?

**Mxwoodman** · 07-22-2016, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Danielwt View Post

Mxwoodman , thank you for the response! I've been on the FSX website, and whether (or not) it currently comes with a driving range (for free) is a bit confusing. Are you 100% positive that both the FSX & FR1 software options indeed come with a FREE driving range?

With regards to the courses: My rep indicated that the courses are $99/year. The natural follow up question to your response, then, is this: if FSX comes with one "free" course, would you happen to know if THAT free course will cost me $99/year; or is the "annual fee" in this case somehow overlooked...?

Thank you so much for your response on this!

Call the guys at P2P they'll know for sure - FSX and FR1 base package is a driving range and used to be one course. Also not sure you have to do the $99 a year thing I think you can buy whatever courses you want but there more the $99 each.

**fortysixandtwo** · 07-22-2016, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Danielwt View Post

fortysixandtwo Awesome response! You guys seem to be using the GC2 for the EXACT same reason(s) I intend to...

Follow up questions for you, if you don't mind:
1) You mention that FR1 is the angle you'd take (if you were me). In your opinion, do you think that FSX will eventually make FR1 obsolete?

2) Is the driving range with FR1 'just as good' as the driving range with FSX (in you opinion; if applicable)?

3) Can you touch a bit on the added benefits of having FR1 (or any software for that matter), over simply/solely using the ipad application? In other words, if the GC2 is used strictly for practice purposes (99% of the time), what will the driving range (within software) do for me that the ipad application cannot?

GC2 at the range with no software works great, nothing else is needed. I ended up getting the 50.00 app because it does allow you to save your practice data for all shots until you delete it. That helps if you want to get an average with your shots, etc. In my case maybe I'll hit 10 shots and average my 7 iron data, and then my son can hit his shots under his profile and have his data too.

My used gc2 came with FR1 like you see at all the golf stores that have had them awhile. At home, practicing on the fr1 range is great and it comes with one course..more on that later. For the range, what's good about it is you can do gap fitting, also on the driving range it has a standard target green. You can position it any distance, lets say you want to work on 180 yd distance shots, etc. The one course that comes with it is good for either playing the course, or you can drop a ball anywhere on the course and work on shots. Say you want to practice hitting a hook around some trees to a green, or carry a 205 yd shot over water...just go into practice mode and drop ball anywhere on the course. You can also do a par 3 closest to pin challenge on that one course with all the par 3's. The graphics are old school in comparison to tgc, perfect golf, and even fsx. But who cares if you're working on shot making and distance control..

One other thing to mention is with FR1, what data you see on your gc2 will be exactly the algorithm you will see in the fr1 software and the foresight sports app. This is not always the case with TGC or PG. Personally I find PG to be the closest between the two, just my opinion. See the other programs don't have foresights blessing so they have to use an api and their own ball flight algorithm as well. Now about FSX, you'll have to ask other users who got a new GC2 how they like the range. I think it's basically the same with better graphics, and I haven't read any complaints on the range application. The add on courses have been very buggy going on a couple years now? And of course it's very pricey software.

TGC and PG are both great for sim play, but I ended up selling my copy of TGC and used PG. I felt that PG had more practice features built in like par3 challenges and they also have a range. The price is 250.00 a year and I feel the ball flight algorithm is the closest to what the GC2 is reporting. TGC is worth looking into as well, it's just preference. You won't see courses like Pebble Beach or Augusta on FSX though...

Maybe someone on the board would be willing to sell the FR1 and dongle if they decided to upgrade to FSX. PG is 250.00 a year on steam to try out, and of course TGC is 1k, if you wanted to try that. I'm not sure what FSX cost would be? They told me it would be 995.00 to upgrade to FSX though awhile back from fr1. I like having the fr1 for practicing at home. You should goto a golf store that has a gc2 and just get a feel for what the driving range does...feel free to ask if you have any other questions.

**Ronsc1985** · 07-22-2016, 08:18 PM

My take on what you want/need is this. For just practice you can get by without any software if you understand basic golf ball ballistics i.e. what causes what.

That said the software is useful is useful for practice since you can drop a ball anywhere on any course you own and practice from there all day long if desired. This is much better IMHO then just pounding balls down a range. If you are into height control, draws, fades etc then a visual representation on an actual hole is really good practice. Simulated putting is a waste of time IMHO unless you are playing in one of the on line tournaments since trying to hit a breaking putt on a flat surface leaves a lot to be desired.. I guess it is a skill but how it translates to on course putting escapes me.

With respect to FR! or FSX unless you are picky about having lots of pixels then FR1 is just fine. I recently demoed FSX and except for the better resolution it really offers nothing for someone who is getting a LM/simulator for practice. In fact the 2.0.0 version I had was greatly inferior to FR1 in the user friendly operation. Things I can do in FR1 with one or no clicks took 2 or more in FSX. I have no idea what the yearly requirements are when using FSX. In FR1 there are none since can run standalone without any internet access ever i.e all the software you need to run the simulations is on your computer in your memory. If tomorrow someone blows up Foresight and all their associated servers you would still be good to go. I actually have my network adapter disabled when running the simulation to avoid any interrupts from programs trying to update, sell me stuff etc. When this happens you are liable to get a program crash. Since in order to start FSX (at least the demo I had) you had to be connected to the internet, the occasional crash from external interrupts happened a few time while i was running FSX. Probably after you start FSX you could drop the internet connection but that in itself is a PITA.

As I wrote in my evaluation of FSX for the sales department I wouldn't trade FSX for FR1 straight up until they greatly improve the user interface.

BTW either basic FR1 or FSX comes with a range and one course. FR1 has a course at the Belfry in England and FSX has a course call Teton Pines ( which I found to be inferior to my other courses): I currently in FR1 have The Belfry, Firestone, Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Turnberry, Olympic, Torrey Pines South and Le Tempe. I bought the GC2 used and it had those courses as part of the deal.

**Danielwt** · 07-22-2016, 09:41 PM

Thanks fortysixandtwo and Ronsc1985! Awesome information!

Looks like FR1 is probably my best option for now. The gap in price (from my current rep) is about $700. Considering I use a mac, maybe the "saved" $700 will go toward a windows based PC. My guess is that I'll be using the driving range, and/or the 'drop ball and practice from anywhere' feature 99% of the time; while actually playing a sim round 1% of my time.

Anybody else have differing opinions? I'll probably give P2P a call on Monday if nobody else talks me out of FR1, and into FSX. If I had the option of avoiding the SDX (which is a dumb requirement; in my opinion), I would probably forego software altogether, and just stick with the ipad app for now.... We'll see what happens!

Thanks again for the amazing responses guys!

**Ookie** · 07-24-2016, 07:00 PM

FSX apparently has a dongle option as well, although they don't advertise it.

Other side of that is if you get burgled, and they get the PC with the dongle, you are out $3K plus.

As bad as Foresight is with a lot of things, they do not pull the recurring revenue model crap. That $99 for a course is a one time fee.

**Danielwt** · 07-24-2016, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Ookie View Post

FSX apparently has a dongle option as well, although they don't advertise it.

Other side of that is if you get burgled, and they get the PC with the dongle, you are out $3K plus.

As bad as Foresight is with a lot of things, they do not pull the recurring revenue model crap. That $99 for a course is a one time fee.

You're right... I just went back to check the email now, and it reads, $99/per, NOT $99/year... My mistake....

I'm having quotes from P2P for the FR1 written up as I type this. Do you think, for ANY reason, the FSX is a better option to go with?

Thanks in advance!

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