3 different directions. Need some help.

[Rusty Casino]

Morning guys,

I've been following this site for a while and now I'm finally posting. Long story short, my wife and I have been looking for a lot to build a new house for a couple of years. The plan was to have a golf sim room or area so I started following along in here for ideas and education. No worthy lots have come up in our area so I've decided to do the garage thing. I've been talking to Cory at par2pro for a couple of weeks and have a couple of decent options but I'd like your guys opinions before I decide which way to go. It seems like I change my mind 10 times a day.

I'm a 14 HCP and took the game up 6 years ago. I've done a couple of winters at Golftec and for some reason I love to practice, especially hitting foam balls into a sheet in my basement. I have young kids so my actual golf time is limited. I'm also an airline pilot so I'm gone a fair bit which also limits my time. I'd like to do something at home that will help me improve while having some fun. Hitting foam balls into a sheet is just not cutting it anymore.

The first option would be just the skytrak route. I'm aware of the delay, the no reads and the short game woes of the unit. It does seems fairly accurate which I really like. The software seems cool especially the game improvement stuff. I'd probably grab a net return with this and use the IOS app. You guys that have done this are you happy with your purchase? I realize everything here is subjective but the primary focus of going this way would be to improve and play the included WGT courses in the game improvement packages. My wife likes this option as we are redoing the counters and flooring in the house. This would free up some cash for these improvements.

The next option is the GC2 with TGC. If I go this route, I'd do the projector, screen, laptop, and netting. Obviously more expensive but it now adds the simulation and game play factor in. I've used the GC2 at golftec and I'm aware of how good it is. This whole package came in at around 14k CAD. If I'm going to go all out for the sim, this is the route I'd like to go. Here's where I need your advice. You guys playing TGC with the GC2. I realize this can be glitchy. I've talked to the guys at par2pro about it. They would set everything up on a laptop for me. How cumbersome is getting TGC running with the GC2? Do you guys that have TGC love it or am I better off with option 3? Also, I'd use the foresight app for the game improvement aspect (club mapping, etc). Do you guys find the foresight app good enough for improving (distances, wedge distances, shot shaping, etc)?

The last option is obviously the sweetest (I think) but I'm having a really hard time justifying the cost. The whole package would come around 18500 CAD. It's the CPO GC2,HMT and FSX 1018. I've been doing my research on the HMT and while it's cool, it might be overkill for me. I never had one at golftec and I improved immensely. My current teacher has offered to come over and give me lessons with the gc2 if I wish so I'd have his watchful eye this winter to help me improve. FSX 2018 looks great with it's 5 courses but then you have to keep dishing out the cash for more courses. You guys that have FSX 2018, would I notice a massive difference in game improvement software over just the foresight app?

So I guess I'm looking for advice on all 3.
You skytrak guys. Are you happy with the game improvement accuracy and do you find that it helps? Does it do a good job with the wedge matrix and bag mapping? Am I going to get pissed off with the misreads and no reads?
The GC2/TGC guys. Any comments on getting TGC running and any comments about the foresight app that will help me make a decision?
The HMT and FSX guys? I realize the HMT is nice to have but is FSX 2018 that great that I need to have this system even though I have to shell out hundreds more per course?

Thanks in advance guys,

Dave

[andygg1986]

Hi Dave,
It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this. I have a GC2 with TGC and don't find it to be glitchy at all. I think a lot of it comes down to having a good bluetooth dongle on a cable located right next to the GC2. Getting it up and running isn't difficult in my opinion, and Protee's support is excellent.

Personally, I would go with option 3. I think the HMT would be most helpful for game improvement, and if money is a concern, cut back on finishing out the space. You could get a cheap used projector and Supertex screen for under $500. The electrical conduit frame kits aren't too much, or you could possibly do some 2x4's depending on layout. I wouldn't skimp on the mat. Personally, I like the fiberbuilt because it doesn't hurt my elbow like CCE did. I think they have an option for around $500. Harbor Freight mesh tarps can work for the sides and top for around $20 and still look decent. Or you could get blackout drapes on amazon for not too much more. Some cheap carpet or astroturf could serve a short term flooring option. I assume that you aren't making structural changes to your garage, but you could get your hitting bay looking decent for around $1500 and upgrade pieces of it down the road. That plus the $10k CPO GC2 + HMT + FSX puts you at about $11.5k.

I noticed that you are referencing prices in CAD. The foresight website says the CPO package is only available to US customers. Maybe you are planning on coming down to get it, but I thought I'd point that out as well.

No matter what you decide, I'm sure you would be happy with any of those options. Then you will get the upgrade bug like all of us, which happens no matter what you get :-)

[BGCurtis2nd]

I can not say I am one that should be giving advice on the HMT, but just though I would say that the one time I got to use a GC2 with HMT was very much worth it for me. I found out the problem I had been working on was not really the problem I was having and was able to improve on what I was doing in only one secession. If I could afford it I would go with the GC2 with HMT for a setup in a heart beat. May not need it all the time but being able to see the data the HMT provides can be very useful at lest it sure seems that way to me.

[Rusty Casino]

Thanks guys. I do like the HMT idea. Just curious what everyone thinks of the software ? Skytrak, TGC and FSX.
Another option is to do TGC and add in the HMT later and just use it with the foresight app.

The GC2/HMT/FSX package is a Canadian one for $11800 up here.

[andygg1986]

I only have TGC, but from what I have heard and read, they tend to target different audiences.

For simulated rounds of golf, I think TGC is the best. You get tons of courses, online tournaments, and a one time $1k buy. FSX has good courses but if you want more than the few that come with it, they will cost you a lot of money. Plus there is the "upgrade" fee question going forward. It was $500 to upgrade to FSX 2018, what about next year? Skytrak's option to get WGT is likely a distant third for simulated rounds from everything I have heard. If it was good, there wouldn't be so many Sktrak users playing TGC and JNPG.

For practicing, FSX seems to be the best. There are lots of features targeted towards fitting clubs and spotting trends in shots. It will show you all the HMT and ball data, and can put it into spreadsheets for analysis. From an outside perspective, Skytrak has improved a lot over the last couple of years for practice by adding things like a skills assessment and club comparisons. It seems like it is a close second to FSX. TGC is the least practice friendly. You can hit balls on a driving range, which is really a course where you keep taking mulligans. And you can get shot history by club in a downloadable spreadsheet, but it isn't as well-suited for really analyzing your game in my opinion.

I think if you are going to get FSX, getting the package that includes it is definitely the way to go since it would cost you $3k otherwise. You could buy the package and sell the HMT for close to $4k USD and it would be significantly less than buying a refurb GC2 and then paying $3k for FSX separately.

[Snaphook]

I have GC2 with HMT and the old pre fsx foresight software (FR1)
I use this alot when i practice.
But for simulation i use TGC. And i lit the backlight on the GC2 screen so i can see the HMT data on it while playing TGC,
So many options :-)

[Rusty Casino]

So judging by these comments it sounds like every system has it’s advantages. I want a little of everything.

Can anyone tell me if the foresight app is good for improving or is it just tracking your shots?

[Snaphook]

So judging by these comments it sounds like every system has it’s advantages. I want a little of everything.

Can anyone tell me if the foresight app is good for improving or is it just tracking your shots?

It gives you the same club/ball data as FSX so sure it's good for improving.

[Gresh12]

Given no one jumped in on your Skytrak option I will add a few comments.

I will caveat I can only hit irons given ceiling height restrictions and my ball speed is decent but not high by any means. It sounds like high ball speed may introduce some challenges I'm not seeing.

I feel my Skytrak is accurate relative to the conditions. I think there is more noise introduced to the results from hitting off a mat than there is from my Skytrak relative to a GC2 based on my comparisons at home versus the GC2 at the store. I won't debate that the GC2 has advantages and a lower margin of error but to me the extra cost isn't worth it (everyone has to attach their own value to things). I have maybe 1-2 no reads a session which is on par with what I see with the GC2 in the store and I don't get anything that I would say is a misread versus me putting a bad swing on it. I would love to be able to hit off grass but from my experience range balls are so unrepresentative of reality that I'm not sure I'd actually gain real insight.

I am a 6/7 handicap and I feel I have learned a lot about my distances (particularly on 30 to 80 yard wedges as I used to have no sense on distance control but working on clock positions with my Skytrak has really dialled this in on the course very noticeably) and I think in general the data is accurate enough, I'm not good enough to debate whether I flew a pitch 52 or 54 yards. I do find that for the ball data the calculated carry is a bit light on Skytrak App versus Optimal Flight calculation and the latter is probably closer to what I see in real life. That said it's a 3-5 yard difference and I find I get the extra 3-5 yards in TGC so I think it's all algorithm differences not bad data collection.

My setup has to be taken down every session (well the net stays up but mat/launch monitor get put away so I can park the car). As a result I am hitting in to a net with my iPad off to the side. This means the Skytrak delay doesn't bother me at all. I realize people have different results but I think it may be wifi speed more than processing power as by the time I have stopped the ball rolling back at me from the Net Return and looked over at the iPad the ball is launching (on the occasional aggressive rebound out of the net I actually miss the shot playing) regardless if I'm in the app or TGC (the latter being streamed off a PC in my living room through Splashtop). The delay is the same using my iPad Air 2 or my 6 year old computer that is below TGC minimum specs but gets by.

I had the means to buy a GC2 but didn't feel the extra cost added enough value to be worth it for me, the GC2 plus HMT was more than I could justify even spread over time. If you are comfortable with the spend on GC2 plus HMT then that is a no brainer to me as I would love to have club data but I still don't have any regrets because I never would have spent the combined amount. I'm holding out for technology prices to do there thing and a good launch monitor with club data for a few thousand to exist in the next handful of years (I once paid $800 for a 1x CD Rom drive for a computer and almost $700 for a DVD player so I'm confident we'll get there at some point).

[StuartG]

Morning guys,
The last option is obviously the sweetest (I think) but I'm having a really hard time justifying the cost. The whole package would come around 18500 CAD. It's the CPO GC2,HMT and FSX 1018. I've been doing my research on the HMT and while it's cool, it might be overkill for me. I never had one at golftec and I improved immensely. My current teacher has offered to come over and give me lessons with the gc2 if I wish so I'd have his watchful eye this winter to help me improve. FSX 2018 looks great with it's 5 courses but then you have to keep dishing out the cash for more courses. You guys that have FSX 2018, would I notice a massive difference in game improvement software over just the foresight app?

You realize you should be able get HMT w/o FSX - and use TGC instead?

Or can start w/ just GC2 and add HMT at a later point? You dont' have to make the HMT decision up front.

As far as the usefulness of HMT - it really comes down to how important is to to get accurate club data (path and face to path, dynamic loft, AoA) for the specific swing improvements you are (or are planning on) working on. At your level, most can do plenty without it and many instructors who use that data don't always like to share the numbers with the student. They can easily distract the student into chasing numbers instead of focusing on the core problems. The ball flight (as long as that data is accurate) will usually give enough information to tell you what most people need to know for improvement. And an investment in a camera/video recording set-up tends to be much more useful for instruction for most. You might consult with your instructor in how much that club data might help (or not).

Now that being said, I must admit, I was willing to pay a bit extra to get a Flightscope Xi Tour - just so I could get that club data.

[andygg1986]

I think a big part of the dilemma is that Foresight has a special right now where if you buy a refurb GC2 and HMT at the same time, they give you a computer and FSX for free. So if he thinks he decided to add either the HMT or FSX down the road, it would cost significantly more for the luxury of spacing out the purchases over time. And some people have a good gaming computer already, but if not, getting one included is also going to save around $700.

I agree about the danger of chasing numbers with the HMT instead of working on core issues. Without a good instructor, that can cause a lot of problems. The last thing you want is to start trying to manipulate the club at impact with your hands to try and get better numbers. I think the value of the HMT is if your instructor can say something like "if you successfully start your downswing by shifting your weight first, then your path will be in this range." That way you are using the path number to evaluate if you are really starting your downswing properly.

[StuartG]

I saw that special, but I wasn't sure if it was available in Canada (most of the foresight CPO sales are listed as valid in the US only) and based on the price the OP quoted it didn't sound like that's what he was referring to. Not unless the value of the Canadian dollar has dropped a lot more than I thought :-)

[Rusty Casino]

I'm assuming the Foresight app has a basic range so if I push the app to the screen I can at least have a range to look at in between ball data?

[wbond]

I've had both ST and a GC2. I had a very early ST unit, may have been the second or so to get one on here and I did not have any issues with no reads or missed shots like others have. I also do not have a high ball speed so I didn't experience those issues either. For the price, it's very hard to beat. It really comes down to what you want to spend and will certain things annoy you, like the delay, smaller hitting area, closeness of the unit, short game issues etc. If they will bother you, then go with the GC2. They both do the same thing much like a Ford vs a BMW (or whichever vehicle comparison you prefer). I do not experience any glitches with GC2 and TGC. I think the TGC issue is usually related to internet connections slowing down and it happened with both ST and GC2.

[Rusty Casino]

Now I’ve just started looking at the E6 software. More expensive than TGC but might offer exactly what I’m looking for with play and practice. Any thoughts on E6?