Golf Sim Nuances vs. Real Life Golf

[Gud]

Many thanks for any help on this question and thanks to all on this wonderful forum where so many have contributed to others!

I am thinking of starting a Golf Sim set-up, perhaps Uneekor, in a downstairs room; but if sim golf is too much like a computer golf game with regard to too much forgiveness or ability to improve your results due to gaming the system rather than improving your real life golf skills, then I would like some insights. The reason I ask is that all I see on You Tube and elsewhere are videos where every shot is hit straight and long putts are often made (presumably these are very low handicap players) - thus, it is hard to see how realistic golf sims are - I have searched extensively for insights and note that in the TGC 2019 forum many think golf sims play about 7 strokes easier vs. real life - that's fine but I would like a reasonable amount of reality - like even some bad shots.
Questions:
1) Would some members, especially higher handicap players, please post their general results (score difference vs. real life) and also observations on how is your play on sims vs. real life with regard to the following: driver, fairway woods, long irons, play around greens, and putting. Thus, perhaps most clubs produce reasonable results; but for example chipping is much easier and accounts for most of the differences - or whatever - in that case sims can still be valuable in all other areas.
2) Anyone know of videos of higher handicap players that I should check out in action.

[chicub15]

I have a Uneekor QED, a Fiberbuilt mat and a CCE mat. My actual golf handicap hovers between 3 and 5, but I don't play on the sim often enough for my sim handicap to be as good. Figuring out (and coming to terms with) my actual carry distances is where I saw the biggest improvement in my real golf game.
A few friends who are in the 10-15 handicap range enjoy the sim and it plays close to real life for them as well. Sure, shots are easier on the sim with a perfect lie every time and no wind (in most cases) but I can say that with the Uneekor QED my game has improved. Sure there are settings for gimme putts and you can even design courses with greens that have no break (or software that aims for you) so you are only working on speed on your putting, but I do not think that you should worry that sim golf is going to be too easy.

GarageGolf on YouTube does a lot of sim testing and he isn't a great golfer, check him out if you haven't before.

[JackedUpSwing]

The higher the handicap, the more benefit you will get from having a sim.

A lot of improving as a golfer is hitting a metric **** ton of balls. Having a sim makes doing that a lot easier.

[nbar]

Totally agree anything that gets you hitting tons of balls will improve your game. It has helped me be more consistent. Hank Haney said even swinging a club 100 times a day helps. I find the chipping and putting on the sim is not so realistic.

[3on3putt]

In real life I'm typically shooting 80-85. Maybe breaking 80 once every 7-8 rounds or so.

On the sim I'm generally shooting 77-82 from similar yardages, so my difference is just a few shots.

There's no way to magically straighten out shots on a sim. If you hit it crooked, it's going crooked. I shanked two balls into the water on a par 3 last night. Took a 9 on the hole and ruined what was otherwise a great round for me (still shot 79 despite that awful hole). So yes, that is reality lol.

If I have a 3-putt on the sim from 50 feet, I'm much more likely to 3-putt it than 2-putt it. And that is consistent with real life for most of us.

I can't really think of any ways to "game the system." You can crank up the elevation to increase your carry distances and some of the softwares allow for a club boost. But that is your choice. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to hit your driver longer than you actually do. I don't use any boost, because I like to simulate my real life game as much as possible.

If you think that those youtube videos are representative of actual sim golf, just take a look at the scores in the TGC tournaments. There are people not even breaking 100. Heck, at the Wyndham Championship this week only 20 players out of 139 finished under par for both rounds. And usually it's far less than that. It's not uncommon for fewer than 10 players to be under par in a full field event. That doesn't sound all that unreasonable or that people are somehow "gaming the system." Remember, the people posting videos on youtube for the world to see are the ones who are good and have something to show off. I doubt the people shooting 97 are too anxious to publish any videos for the world to see lol. It's just like social media --- people only post the good looking pictures of themselves when they are happy and smiling. But we all know that isn't real life.

(Also, make sure the videos you watch are of sim play and not console play).

Is it easier? Yes because you have a perfect lie and stance every time and you always know the exact yardage. 6 foot gimmes are standard for tournament play so you don't have to worry about those knee knockers (although in a sense, you do. The knee-knockers just become 7-9 footers that you have to actually make).

When I was younger and played golf video games on the playstation, the issue was always becoming too good to where it was no longer fun anymore. Once I reached the point where I was shooting 57 on the hardest settings, I stopped playing the game because it wasn't fun anymore. But I really can't see that happening on the sim because you would actually have to become extremely good in real life in order to do something like that. And that would be a good problem to have.

For me the hardest part is shots that require a carry of 30-60 yards. Just a tricky thing to really dial in on when you don't have the depth perception of your target like you do in real life. That's easily where I throw away the most strokes.

It's impossible to fully simulate real life golf. But sim play with a quality setup comes as close as you can reasonably come and is a ton of fun. And you will absolutely improve because you'll be hitting a lot of balls on days when you otherwise wouldn't be touching a club.

[jpotas]

I would agree 100% with this. My SIM scores are very close to my real scores, usually mid-80's on average courses including the one that I play most often. I have a LIDAR copy of the real course that I consider to be my home course and score identical to real life. I do find that when I play harder courses in real life that my real scores are higher, this is because of lies. As an example, I have a LIDAR copy of Arthur Hills in Boyne Michigan that I score mid 80's on but always hit mid 90's on when I play it in real life because the rough on the real course is very tough to hit out of.

Overall, my Skytrak has really helped me become a better ball striker due to having the ability to practice all the time. I used to hit over a 100 on my home course three years ago, so I have taken a good 20 strokes off my average score. I have not played at Boyne in over a year and would like to see how I would score there now. I suspect that would be lower 90's, or high 80's at this point, I know my ball striking has improved since I played there.

[Gud]

Thanks for the good input - it is appreciated and helpful - I will proceed with a sim but any other insights are welcome

[ce2]

I'm a standard Sunday hack on real courses shooting anywhere from 90 on a good day to 110 on bad days. But I had a membership to the local X Golf for over 12 months and my best round was 5 under (no mulligans, white tees). Typically on blue tees I was hitting about 5 over. So that's a 20-40 shot difference! Doesn't sound very realistic at all, but for me, I think there's a lot that helps explain it:
- perfect lies on forgiving mats that are dead flat
- ball is always found by the sim
- can take full swings no matter where you are (like next to a tree)
- distance and height up/down is always provided (as a hack, I don't have a range finder or use apps)
- every green has the same simulated surface (not in terms of undulations, but no shadows, same hardness, no concern about moisture, no leaves or stones or GUR areas)

I find my golf is a lot about feel. If I know the numbers, I can hit pretty consistently and accurately to those numbers just by feeling out a swing. Depth perception plays on my mind on a real course. So does alignment in an open space.

But what I immediately notice about golfing IRL vs Sim (having gone out to a real course for the first time since coronavirus just this past weekend) is that I'm managing my putting distances so much better and my ball contact is so much more consistent, even with the slight undulations in the lie and stance on a real course. Is it showing in my real life scores? I'm sure it is, but I don't play enough outdoors to really dial in what I've learnt from the sim and apply to real life scenarios.


Bunkers still destroy me though.

[V8burble]

When I built a sim 6 years ago I would shoot around 100. 6 years later my best is 81. I tend to shoot in the 80s or low 90s. As people have said above - just hitting the ball so many times has improved my ball striking hugely. Now that I use a GPS watch and rangefinder outdoors I know the right club to hit for any specific distance. The reason I can't break 80 is the variance in lies and my lousy short game and putting, which has always been atrocious.
On the simulator I've shot a legitimate 60 and I putt great. I just seem much more comfortable in a sim environment where I've played 500 rounds as opposed to less than 80 in my life outdoors.

[abenjami]

I'm an avid "real life" golfer and here are my two cents.

I built my sim so that I would have a good place to keep my swing in tact during the winter months when I'm not able to play (or hit the range) as often. I got tired of playing my best golf in the fall, only to regress when spring came due to lack of repetition.

After building my sim, I spent some time playing sim golf. For me, it was fun, but not real golf. Many of the reasons already stated above are 100% true, such as you're always hitting off a perfect lie, always able to take a full swing, easier to align indoors, no imperfections in the greens, etc.

I enjoyed playing sim golf but quickly realized it was messing up my "real life" short game, big time. Hitting a driver off the tee or a routine iron from the middle of the fairway is relatively the same in real life vs. sim but the short game is totally different and requires a very different feel.

The sim short game was screwing up my real game, so I stopped playing sim golf. I still have my simulator and I still love it, but I only use it to hit irons on the driving range and work on my swing.

[bubbtubbs]

I never found any indoor sims useful for short game so far either, except when it pertains to dialing in approach shots from the fairway under 50y.

Flightscope and Foresight units you can take outside can do this sort of thing on the course or range, though.

[PhilHitsBombs]

It actually helped mine tremendously. I am probably 5 strokes gained in chipping and pitching over last year. In FSX2020 I put in the mode where it auto putts. The benefit I didnt expect was it penalizes you heavily if you are as much as 5 feet from the hole. So, if I was 10 feet off the green, I would need to put it within a foot to save par. Otherwise, it would be 1.5 and higher (Yes it uses fractions but you get used to it). So, even though I hit a fair amount of greens, If I dont put it very close when I miss the green, it can really mess up a good round. Somehow, it has translated to my real game where I can visualize shots better and know how to apply that feel. Just my experience.
Since I have a great launch monitor (GC2/HMT) I am also working on low spinning chips which has also translated.
So, if you have a good LM, it can be a big help in short game also.

[Jay28]

A golf sim will 100% improve technique and especially timing.
Hitting so many balls means the body (brain) starts learning what a good strike and result feels like and starts to change your swing naturally.
The important thing is to really think about what you did and what the result was.
Try different things and start to groove a swing.

Don't get too carried away with the sim scores, though. A lot depends on settings but even then there are key differences.
I am not that interested in using lie penalties or applying wind settings or practising short putts in the simulator. None of those things translate to the course in my view (well maybe wind does but I plan to try out handling wind conditions in the sim when my strike is even better and I can move on to skills such as holding shots into the wind by shaping cuts and draws).
Putting is just not realistic and neither are lie penalties - ultimately a bad (or sloped) lie on a real course is not just about a %distance impact, it is more about the lie itself and getting the strike right.
For putting, my hitting area includes a couple of golf holes which allows me to practice putts up to 15ft on putting turf - I use that instead of the sim for putting practice and I have got a lot better at putting because of it.

So with no lie penalties, no wind and 6ft gimme's I shot a three-under par 69 today on Teton Pines... 6300 yard white tees.
My club course is of a similar nature, about 300 yards longer and if I break 90 it's been a good day.
For me, the sim scores are about 20 shots better than real life.

My scores would be lower in RL (a lot lower) if my chipping and bunker play was better and I could hit it further (my drives are only 225-230 and 7 iron 155 carry). There is no doubt that the sim has dramatically improved my consistency of strike, though. I very rarely really miss a shot now like I used to - I mean tops, huge 50yd slices or hooks, chunks and shanks. Just doesn't really happen in a round...maybe one shot every 3 rounds where I lose focus. Bad strikes are now ones that might be 10 yards short of distance - a slight thin or slight heavy strike. That's the really big benefit of the sim - RL gets far more enjoyable because you stop worrying about whether you are going to strike it properly and start thinking about what you want to do with the shot, planning your way round a course.

Oh, one other thing the sim teaches you - to swing easy. You learn through a lot of shots that a 100% effort swing has a high probability of a mishit when even a good hit at 100% effort only gives you 5 -10 more yards than a 20% effort swing which is repeatable strike after strike. I finally learned to just take a club more and swing easy. Sounds obvious, but like so many club golfers I used to try and kill the ball on every shot. I don't think the brain really accepts that you have to swing easy until you've demonstrated to it the results over 1,000s of shots!

[ChrisNH]

It's sort of the type of thing that you get out of it what you put into it. If you understand and accept the sim's limitations and give it a chance you can get a lot of enjoyment and improvemnt in your real game.

I play to a 5 hdcp in real life, and it's quite close to that on my sim over the winter. I have occasional days when hitting it well where can shoot under par if stay focussed and days when hitting it lousy when have to work to break 90 on a hard course. Similar to real golf in that way. If you really like golf you'll find a way to enjoy your sim and will consider it a bargain at twice the price.

[Wizard of Coz]

1. Score difference 8 shots avg lower in sim for me
2. Driver/fwywoods/ irons/ wedges almost the same for me sim vs outdoor. Except the lie won't be the same, wind bad bounces
3. Pitching/chipping/ bunker play easier in sim than outdoors especially with fiberbuilt perfect lie. Outdoors you can get bad lies, tight lies and fried eggs etc. Bunkers with no sand and too much sand. Lots of variables and bad bounces
4. My putting is wayyyy better in sim. If I could putt outdoors like I do in sim score would be much closer to the same. Sim greens are perfect, 6ft gimmies. Outdoor greens are not perfect and lots of imperfections around the hole from foot print traffic.

If you want to improve outdoors start by hitting more greens in regulation. Sim will definitely help in that department.
then get that wedges game tight. Outdoors you need to adapt to course conditions. Green speed and green firmness for your approaches.

[MadMax2021]

I am relatively new to my Skytrak / TGC 2019 setup (a couple of months). I am finding it much more difficult on the sim to get distances right from 40 to 80 yards compared with on the course. I can't seem to have the same feel for distance. Does anyone else have this experience? Does it go away over time?

[delta1274]

I've had my Skytrak / TGC2019 setup for about 5 years. I practice the 30-80 yard shots quite a bit and they have absolutely helped me IRL. I'm much more comfortable at these shorter distances than I've ever been. I regularly hit to 80 yards on certain holes and totally fine with 40-50 yard shots thanks to using the SIM

[Wizard of Coz]

I take my sim memorized shots straight to the course. Even a 10 / 15 / 20/ 25 yard pitch/ chip shot.

[MadMax2021]

Thanks everyone. My takeaways:
1. The sim underperformance issue on pitches will probably go away if I practice specific distances indoors to replicate the feel I already have outdoors.
2. If I want this to benefit me on the course (where my short pitches are better than the rest of my game anyway), I may need to use the laser more inside 80 than I currently do to match up my feel with what I've learned more mechanistically on the sim.

[Needsmoreeagles]

Still a newby here and I have my settings set to Auto 2 putt and 1 putt inside 6ft when I play 95% of the time.

If you are playing from the Tee box and Fairways then it is real life golf. Once you get close and need to finesse a stroke it is still tough but you are playing a video game and will need to take the course conditions into play.

Hitting more balls and having more fun playing new fun courses isn't bad. Scoring better in the SIM and already seeing the plusses in real life too. Definitely best practice device I have come across. Way better than the range.

[Treyc321]

I’ll say that actually putting is 100% not anywhere near real life. That being said…I have noticed an improvement in my on course putting since I almost always putt everything out. I think it teaches a little on control for speed as well as helps with repetition and hitting the ball in the middle of the face. Again, not realistic to real life, but some benefits none the less!