help me plan my garage sim please!

[morrisad]

Thanks to all for the great info on this site, I've only been reading for a few days and have already learned so much. We recently built a new house and unfortunately I did not manage to work room for a sim on the inside. That said, we have a 3.5 stall garage and only 2 cars, so I'm thinking I can use the 1/2 stall for a sim area to get me through the long Minnesota winters. The area is 14' x 16' with one side open to the rest of the garage, and 10' ceilings. The 14' wall is the end of the peninsula and has a door to the backyard and the main circuit breaker box, so it obviously can not be permanently covered. Originally I was thinking of having the screen on that side and coming up with a way to retract it to the ceiling, but now am considering going the other direction, so the screen could potentially be fixed. I'm not sure the 14' depth is enough though. So, good things are that I have high ceilings, there's already power outlets on the ceiling for the garage door openers, and the wireless router is close and reception should be good. One bad thing is that my son is left-handed, so I need a two-way setup.

At the moment I'm planning on going with a SkyTrak / TGC system. My main PC is in the small resource center adjacent the garage and that's also where my wireless router is, so I'm hoping I can use Miracast and a BenQ projector with the wireless kit and do an all wireless setup. If that doesn't work I can always run wires or get another PC or laptop for the garage. The attached drawing isn't to scale obviously. If I need more depth from hitting area to screen I could move the screen to the end wall, but then I would need to devise something that folds up to the ceiling like PunchoutPro did. I'd like to be able to move the stance mat and putting strip while not in use so it doesn't get too dirty or beat up.

So what say you experts? Good plan / bad plan? Suggestions? I'm all ears!

[Tonyd9366]

14 ft long for a sim room is really short. You live in Minnesota correct. Does your house have a basement?? If so, how high is your ceiling there?? I have a 3 car garage here in las vegas and I use my single car side for my sim room and it's 20 ft long by 10 ft wide. But I have a right hand set up only and me and my son are both right handed. If my son was a lefty I would have used my two car side and made a double bay for both lefties and righties. How much land do you have ?? If I had the land space I would have purchased one of those steel buildings just big enough to have a similar and insulate it and have ac and and heater unit. I used to live in St Paul so I know about the harsh winters there. You really can't use the double side of the garage due to the cars freezing outside. I assume you still have to plug in the cars to keep them warm at night. At least that's what we had to do back then. Maybe times have changed. Another thing is with skytrak. You would have to by two of them in order for your son and you to play together. You might want to consider a protee set instead because the sensor pad can be put in the middle of the room and you could hit from both sides.. I just think 14 ft may be to short.. plus it could create a injury hitting to close to the screen in case of richocet or severe bounce back. Here's a pic of my set up. Hopefully this helps and let me know if you need more help. A lot of us have great ideas... but here's a start at least. Good luck.. Tony

[cspin]

I thought 14' would be enough, but maybe you're right. He can put a screen within 1' of the back wall with no problem, allowing him to hit from 8' of the screen without any concerns of hitting back wall. That was my thought.

[cspin]

Welcome morrisad, and congrats on the new house! You've got a nice space to work with in the garage. My thought would be to consider the following:

1. MN is obviously freezing in winter so you are going to want heat in the garage if you don't already have it. Looks like you have 2x6 walls, so you may have insulation and heat already. If not, and to avoid having to heat entire garage, you can put a heater in the area you are hitting in and block off the rest of the garage with a hanging vinyl tarp on a track. That's what I did and it works great. I have a ceiling mounted electric heater and the ceiling to floor tarp keeps the heat in very well.
2. For lefty and righty play I have heard that you are going to either want to go with a Protee type system with a mat sensor in middle of hitting area, or you would need to buy 2 Skytrak units to avoid hassle of re-positioning 1 unit. Maybe others have found a solution for this.
3. I would use the space as you have laid it out, hitting toward the 16' wide wall. You have plenty of room with 14'. And with 16' wide you should have no problem with R and L play from a middle mat / hitting area position.
4. I would not go with a retractable enclosure unless you need the area for something. You could go with a stationary screen / backup netting setup against the 16' wall, and then use retractable side drapes mounted on ceiling track, that pull out say 6'. That should be plenty of side protection on L and R, and you would have a tarp on the left anyway if you divided the garage up for heating purposes. Ceiling protection is pretty straight-forward but should be thought out in advance. Check out the garage sim setup done by p3eps on this site, as it is real nice. He parks in the area so he has a retractable element to his screen and enclosure.
5. As for flooring, get some turf that you can roll out and roll back up if you need to use the space or have a lot of traffic. Better to have something you can leave in place for positioning of mat and Skytrak unit reliably, but I am sure you can figure out a work around.

Can't help you with the PC issues, but others here can. If you need an entirely retractable setup, including screen, I would say connect with p3eps. I have not seen PunchoutPro's set up. Guys have done some really nice retractable set ups that's for sure.

Good Luck!

cspin

[Tonyd9366]

Great points CS.. yes hitting into the 16 ft side would be best. A protee set up would be best in this case for the righty lefty situation, and it's more affordable as well. My only concern is the 14 ft of depth. Which is really 13 ft because your gonna need at least 1 ft min of clearance from your net to your garage door if you go with a stationary set up like mine. My side panels actally fold in which I do when not in use. But with 13 ft, you have to be aware of the clearance not with the height 10 ft is plenty, but with your back swing especially with your driver and hitting into the screen. That's only 6 and a half feet both ways. However I do think it can be done with your space.

[morrisad]

Thanks for all the input Tony and Cspin. Unfortunately the area is currently full of outdoor furniture, car wheels and tires, moving boxes, etc... so I haven't been able to tape everything off on the floor and get a sense of whether the spacing works. I attached a mock-up of the other option (hitting towards the back wall), and in this case I could move one of the cars to the single stall so as long as the hitting mat is movable I would have plenty of depth. The issue here is that storage space in the rest of the garage will be at a premium, and again the screen would need to be retractable which increases the cost and complexity. I think it would be ideal to go with the original direction, once I get that area cleaned out a bit I'll get it taped out on the floor and see if it's going to work. I'm sure there are screens you can get that provide more cushion and less rebound so that safety is not an issue. I was planning on putting side curtains up on ceiling tracks to create the retractable enclosure.

The single stall would be an option and solve the depth issue, but width might be limited and there is a hot / cold water spigot on the wall over there that I couldn't cover permanently. I also worry about the hitting area being under the garage door opener, which would limit height. Once I get the garage cleared out some more from the move I'll give that area some more thought though.

Our HOA doesn't allow large outbuildings and our basement is already finished, so the garage is the only option. I have a blue flame propane heater that works quite well, but I would also look at doing a wall mounted electric heater in the back corner eventually. I was rather set on having a ball tracking sim rather than a club tracking sim, but I think you're right about maybe looking at Protee or P3Pro to solve the "handedness" issue. My son is only 6 but he really enjoys the game and I know he'll want to use it.

Your setup looks great Tony, what is the distance from hitting area to screen? It doesn't look like Protee is any cheaper than Skytrak to me, both with TGC included appear to be around $3k. Accuracy is important to me because it's not any fun to play a system that isn't, and I also want to use the system to work on my swing. Protee has a system now with vertical and horizontal launch cameras but it's $6k+... ouch.

[Tonyd9366]

Morris, thank you for the compliment on my set up. Like I said I have a 10x20 ft space. Form where I hit the ball to the screen is 9 ft. Interesting you mentioned p3 proswing and protee. I had both and got rid of both. Lol. Yes they both accodimate the dexterity situation by putting them in the middle of the room. However, p3 isn't the most accurate and every club has to be taped with a refective strip in order for the sensor pad to read the club. Pain in the butt. The protee is much better in terms of accuracy but it's difficult with the initial set up. It's a shadow system which requires lighting above to be positioned perfectly in order to work. No taping of clubs however which is nice. Then of course there is the cameras.!!! Which again can be difficult to set up properly. And the lighting conditions have to be spot on as well otherwise you will get a lot of miss reads. And when you go idle for a while the settings in the protee interface all go back to default. Then you have to go back in and re do them. Don't get me wrong when the protee is set up properly it works really good and is accurate. Needless to say I got rid of both and bought a gc2 and I love my sim now especially with the tgc software.

Another thing to consider is the skytrak which I've never had but heard that delays occur from strike of the ball to result on the screen which would have drove me crazy if I went that route.

A sim build as I found out can be taxing and frustrating at times. There are so many variables to consider. You are lucky that you have this forum for guidance because I went into it with no help and now 3 different systems later and about 6k later I'm finally content with my system.

You have a 6 yr old and I have a 3 yr old. One of the reasons I went with the gc2 is because the ease of operation. Basically is turn key and go. Skytrak is easy as well much like the gc2. I have a about a .75 delay from strike to result which I can live with. Now you have options there are used gc2's out there for about 4k and used protee systems as well that guys are selling on this site and ebay that cost a fraction of buying new if cost is a concern for you. A little research will do you wonders. I just want you to make the right decision and save you money and frustration. Unlike me.. lol...

Knowing children when they get frustrated they lose interest and thats the last thing I wanted was for my son to lose interest in golf because of a sim that was difficult to set up all the time or wasnt accurate...etc... If my son loses interest I wanted it to be because he just doesn't like it not because other reasons. Plus playing with him keeps us bonded and away from tv, phones, xbox and Facebook. Lol.. good luck and please keep me posted. Tony

[Bnorman58]

14 feet is plenty. Protee is great! Take the time and get it set up right. Let me know if you need advise, I am one of the few left, lol. In a garage in Colorado and it gets cold. I am originally from Minnesota so know what you're saying. Got a good garage heater.

[tlhammond5]

Welcome Morrisad! Too bad you didn't plan indoor space for your sim. My wife and I built a new home about 6 years ago, and I put a step down in part of our basement to allow for 11' ceilings specifically for a sim room. My space in the sim area is 22' x 18'. I have more room than you've described, but I think I can help. When I first built my sim room I built a screen that could be pulled up to the ceiling. I built a 12' x 9.5' rectangular frame to mount the screen to. I placed an eye hook in the middle of the bottom pvc pipe to attach a rope to. I put a pulley on the ceiling about 11' from the top of the screen. I used the pulley and a rope with a dog leach clip attached to the eye hook to pull the screen to the ceiling when not in use. I simply disconnected the dog leach clip and hooked it to one of the ropes I used to suspend the screen from the ceiling when using the screen. The only drawback was having to use a small step ladder because the rope had to be short enough from the pulley to not get in the way when swinging a club. 14' is long enough if you place your mat in the open end... Might just need to move a car temporarily. You really need at around 18', but if the garage is open behind you, you should get by. One more thing to note... You will want to build a small ramp in front of the screen that slopes away from where you are hitting into the screen. This protects the PVC pipe from a thin shot. I learned this hard way by friends coming over and busting the PVC pipe. You know... I'd never hit a thin shot... LOL. I also put pipe insulation on all the PVC to protect it. PVC is cheap and very easy to work with, so it's not a big deal to replace or repair... It's just a nuisance.

I will offer one more bit of advice, although others will likely disagree with me. Go somewhere and test SkyTrac and GC2 before you purchase a launch monitor. I highly recommend a used GC2 over the SkyTrac. I know it's a bit more money, but you will be much more pleased with the GC2. You can often pickup a used GC2 for around $3500 or even less without software. If you're going to use TGC, you won't need the Foresight GC2 software. You may even want to send Aeroburner a message on here. He once had quite a few of them and he is great to work with. I bought my second and current GC2 from him. I had a SkyTrac for about a week after having a GC2 for years. In my opinion, SkyTrac is just a toy. SkyTrac is not real user friendly, it misses a lot of shots, it's nowhere near as accurate as the GC2, and the missed shots and inaccuracy drove me nuts. The GC2 is extremely accurate, rarely misses shots, and is very user friendly after setup is complete. The SkyTrac does error on the side of forgiveness. You will have less shot dispersion with the SkyTrac compared to GC2, but that's not good if you're looking to improve your game. The SkyTrac shows less than half of actual side spin, therefore shows much straighter shots than GC2. The SkyTrac is considered a great value by many, and I suppose that's a valid argument. It just really depends on your expectations. If you're just looking to have some fun, don't mind a bit of inaccuracy, and having to hit a shot three times to register doesn't bother you, then the SkyTrac would be great. If you want a serious game improving launch monitor that is accurate and dependable, spend the extra cash and buy a GC2. I know... The extra money is hard to spend. I went through it... Twice!!! There is one positive thing about SkyTrac if you purchase it from PlayBetter.com. SkyTrac has a 30 day money back guarantee, but PlayBetter.com has 60 days. They also refund shipping and SkyTrac does not. So, I would recommend purchasing it from PlayBetter.com and giving it a good testing. I purchased mine from them, and they accepted my return without issue! They also offer the same pricing as SkyTrac.

Best of luck!
Tom

[morrisad]

Thanks for the welcome. I have an area just like that (step-down) in our basement but it's for my home theater setup (120" screen, BenQ 3050 projector, motorized recline leather theater seating, etc). There's not enough room to swing a golf club though, unfortunately.

I've hit on GC2 extensively at Golfsmith and taking lessons at Golftec. My son is a lefty though and there's no way I'm buying 2 launch monitors, whether they're SkyTrak or GC2 or whatever. Your experience with SkyTrak doesn't seem typical based on the many threads and reviews I've seen of that system, but I'll take it into consideration. I'm leaning toward Protee at this point, while acknowledging there isn't a "perfect" system at a reasonable price point. Perfect system meaning... easy to setup, very accurate results with both club and ball tracking, works for either dexterity out of the box, durable, good hitting surface, etc.

[Tonyd9366]

Tom I couldn't agree more about the gc2. Don't know if you read my post but if Morrisad can afford it he should opt for the gc2. And Bill yes I agree with you as well about the protee. But as you and I have been through it we had our battles with setting up the protee. But I've never been happier with gc2. I just wish I would have just stepped up 3 years ago when I started this and gotten the gc2 back then. Would have saved a lot. I guess the premise here is get the gc2 if you can. However I must say that with the gc2, Morris, you and your son won't be able to play together at the same time unless you get 2 of them. If money is a concern which it is for most of us, if you wanted to play together with your son and still play on line then get the protee. It is labor intensive, but once it's set up correctly it works great. Another thing about the protee is no shot delays it's instantaneous from strike to result. You can still work on your game with it as well. But the accuracy of the gc2, spin numbers, launch numbers etc.. gc2 is second to none. Because of the fact that it measures the ball and not the club, and because of it you don't have to change clubs in the game, just hit whatever club you want and it goes the distance. With protee you have to enter the club you are hitting because it reads the club and not the ball. Regards. T

[Bnorman58]

Tony, Protee reads the ball, it just also gives club data. All physics of the shot are based on the ball. You will see club speed and ball speed, they are actual and smash factor is real. Yes, gc2 easier to set up and yes, actual spin. However, protee calculates it based on launch angle and angle of attack and is absolutely amazingly close. I can even hit pitch shots on the upswing where they won't spin as much irl and they don't in tgc also. I can hit pitches pure where I can feel the spin and they spin more in Tgc. Again, protee measures ball and shots are based on ball.

[Tonyd9366]

I did not know that. I was told by par2pro that it reads the club and not the ball. Where gc2 reads the ball and not the club. I think protee is a great system. I've never knocked it. At the beginning of this post I even recommended it to Morris especially over the p3. Because of the dexterity issue to me it's the best option out there. Also factoring in the cost. Yes it does require more integral set procedures, you and I had our growing pains with that, but it's awesome and no shot delays which is one thing I do miss with the gc2. I wish there was a way to get imediate results, but .75 delay is the best I can get with gc2 set up with via Bluetooth with tgc integration.

As I mentioned before, I made the switch because of the ease of operation for my son... Just turn it on and play. If it were me alone or my son was 18 instead of 3 I would have stuck with protee and saved a bunch of money.

[Tonyd9366]

Btw, Morris if you opt for the protee there is no better resource the Bnorman or Aeroburner, or myself, as well as many other guys on this site as far as the set up is concerned, we all have been through it and would be happy to help. And protees support is second to none. They are awesome when it comes to support. If you opt for the gc2 I can help you as well as aeroburner, and mthunt, stingeye, and wyzguy. We are all golf sim freaks lol... Best of luck with your decision.

[morrisad]

Thanks Tony, I'm very happy I found this forum. Very knowledgeable and passionate golf simmers here.

[FaultyClubs]

...As I mentioned before, I made the switch because of the ease of operation for my son... Just turn it on and play....

The steps to turn on and play with the GC2 are:
- turn on gc2
- turn on protee software
- turn on gsx
- fiddle with gsx until it connects to everything
- start tgc server
- start tgc game

What are the steps for Protee?

[Tonyd9366]

For me it was turn on the interface ... start tgc and hope that the settings stayed the same. If not I had to go into the vcam settings and reset the settings the way I had before. Otherwise I'd start hitting and get misreads and balls ballooning. The fps would be way off or the gain would go back to 0.. especially if I went idle for a while. If I used it frequently this rarely happened and it worked fine.

[ProTee United]

When you make camera changes like FPS, Gain, Shutter, etc. you need to save this into the camera memory (!!!), otherwise everything will default when your PC restarts.
http://csc.protee-united.com/hc/en-u...-or-disconnect