Construction Begins on Sim Room Addition

[Kaos]

Most of the insulation was completed and vapor barrier was installed. The sound clips started going up and some of the hat channel was installed. We we short a little insulation and remainder to complete small area in the ceiling will go in tomorrow. Apparently that area will end up with R48 above and beyond the R38 further toward the front. I am hoping the roofer puts shingles on tomorrow as well so the siding can be completed. If we get the insulation first thing in the morning, that will be completed along with all vapor barrier. The sound clips should all be installed as well and most, if not all of the hat channel should be installed. I think we are shooting for the drywall to begin on Friday. The framing inspection was late today so that held things up a few hours and we are now good.

Images show vapor barrier, examples of sound clip installation and hat channel. Note the light cans ad able to support insulation installed right up against the can. That is great for soundproofing the cans.

Right now the plan is to have carpet laid late next week and painting done a week from Sat. Unfortunately, I had to reverse the order for painting and carpeting because of scheduling conflicts. Electrician should be finalizing electrical toward the middle of the week.

[Kaos]

Insulation and vapor barrier completed. The sound clips/hat channel install is about 70% complete. The siding on the front was completed. We will see if roofer shows Friday. I am going to have to lay out the contractor if roofer is a no show in the morning.

Now for the day's snafu. I contracted for Type C drywall which is more effective at controlling sound than Type X. The Type C is clearly laid out in the contract in no uncertain terms. Of course, the contractor delivered Type X drywall today which I did not catch until the crew left for the day. I let him know he delivered the wrong drywall and he had a fit and said he could not do anything about it now. My response was "oh, yes you can!" He tried to say that I had taken enough soundproofing measures and that Type X was fine. I told him "dude, Type C is more effective at controlling sound sound and I will not allow you to install the Type X." With my setup, (assuming R19 fiberglass, for example but I am using Rockwool), Type X would produce a STC 53 while Type C will yield an estimated STC of 60. He again started to argue (I am sure he is afraid he is going to have to eat the cost of the 5/8" Type X or about $550 at retail price from Lowes). I finally had to cut him off and tell him that "dude, I contracted for Type C and that is what you are going to use." I also informed him that the error was his and that I am not going to allow my research to have been in vain and and produce disappointing results, which in turn will be an issue with the wife (which in turn is going to cause me grief when I go to use it at night). I told him man, I feel for you, but I have to live with her! lol. He was not happy, but he finally indicated he would comply.

I think he thinks I am being unreasonable, but, as I said, the error was his so he is just going to have to be PO'd.

Now for the day's images!

[John6577]

Contractors will walk all over you if you let them. A contract is a contract. I promise if you do not hold up your end they will have no problem getting a lien on your home.

[timsiegle]

I don't mean to downplay your research, but to be honest I'm really skeptical that the type of drywall (X vs C) will gain you 7 points on the STC rating. If that's true, it's a great way to improve STC for small cost.
Bottom line he should install what he's contracted to do, no argument on that.

[Kaos]

The estimate was based upon documents a supplier of various sound clips and hat channel products that contained comparisons of various wall structures and sound clip and hat channel combinations (e.g., single sided walls, double sided walls, different sound clip manufacturers, 1/2" v. 5/8" Drywall, Type X v. Type C comparisons with various sound clip combinations etc.), All I can go on is the lab research available. In reality I may not get the full 7 STC or I might get more as a lot of variables can affect the real world STC impact.

[Kaos]

For those that might be wondering how I came up with the 7 STC for Type C over Type X, see the comparison image below. That is the lab tests for various setups of studs, drywall, drywall types and sound clips and hat channel. As can be seen, the projected benefit for Type C over Type X with my wall setup is significant and that is why I was so insistent in the use of Type C. I went with the 1+1 layer ClarkDietrich setup with Type C (but substituted the Rockwool for the fiberglass). As can be seen, the C significantly outperforms the X.



The contractor changed out the drywall and delivered the Type C per contract. (see image below). I can see why it has a better STC rating. It is denser than the Type X and seems much harder to me to the touch (as well as heavier).

All sound clips were installed and hat channel installation was completed. Roof was put on. The rain held up the roof this afternoon, but they managed to get it on in between downpours. Entry door should go in early next week and I believe the plan is to start the drywall on Monday. Proper install is paramount with proper gapping at the top bottom and edges and making sure no screws go through channel into the wall studs (defeating the purpose of the channel and clips).

[timsiegle]

Thanks for that info, your due diligence and QA/QC is better than most small general contractors

[midpoint221]

you're paying that much money you need to get what you want. Not your fault he messed up. Thanks for sharing an awesome build.

[Kaos]

You're welcome...My goal was to take people step-by-step (or daily type journey) through the process so when they are considering doing a build they can see what they might expect (e.g., time frames, delays, snafus, contractor issues etc.). I hope folks can benefit from this process and related sound control planning. It is also an eye opener that this process is not an "over night" type project and a lot of planning, follow-up and monitoring is required if you want to get what you expect. At times, it is frustrating as the end of day's result doesn't look too impressive, but when you realize how much actual work is required to get that result you have a better appreciation for it (e.g., 4+ days to get the insulation installed, vapor barrier, sound clips and hat channel installed with 2-4 guys working on it).

[richerod]

Get what you paid for. I find contractors get defensive when they know they are in the wrong. Wondering if you could quantify in $$ what the soundproofing has added to overall project.

[Kaos]

As I recall, it was a little over $3800.

[richerod]

$3800 to help ensure that overall enjoyment is maximized is worth it IMHO. Excited about your project. Cant wait for the finish details to begin.

[Kaos]

I was surprised, the drywall was roughed in this morning. However, I believe there is a gapping issue with some of the sheets. All walls are suppose to have a gap of 1/4" at ceiling and where walls join. I believe the rough in has several areas that the gaping needs to be addressed. That, and I am not sure what they are going to do about the window area. The crew got out before I could catch them regarding both issues. I sent pics to the contractor and asked him to have the crew fix the gapping.

[richerod]

Have you tested how effective the soundproofing is so far....pre mud and taping? Do u have a portable net u could do a quick sound test with a driver? Or test with some loud music?

[Kaos]

Well...one step back today! After looking at the drywall install more closely yesterday, I found that the crew did a REALLY bad job and the gaps around the ceiling and walls were 1" or more and the gaps around the corners varied between 1/2" and 1". The gaps per sound clip and hat channel instructions were suppose to be 1/4". I made them rip out all of the drywall installed Saturday. It was a different crew that tore out the drywall and I hope it is not the same crew that does the install tomorrow! There was additional blocking added around windows and doors because of the gap between the drywall and studs. Siding almost completed. The plan I believe is to reinstall drywall tomorrow, install entry door and finish siding. Wednesday I believe they are planning to grade the yard, mud the drywall and if time permits, start installing trim. I think the contractor is planning of finishing up by Friday (or possibly Thursday). I am sure he will be glad to be rid of me, as I have been kicking his butt on QC issues. I am hoping to be painting this weekend. Fingers crossed. Once painted, the electrician will finish of his work (e.g., installing outlets, switches, firing up mini split etc.).

[Brettster]

Bummer Kaos - looks like they are hanging drywall on metal, is that for soundproofing? Going to be one heck of a nice sim room when you're done.

[pwade3]

Oh man. Sorry to hear all the issues going on. Your doing an excellent job staying on top of the contractors though. Well done. I am making a check list of all the possible issues you are having so when I start construction (in a couple of weeks) on mine I can make sure some of the issues don’t happen. Sorry your having to be the test run so to speak. Are you going to use sound dampening paint? Read an article that stated that it helps but it gave no data and said it required 3 coats, so not sure its worth it.

[pwade3]

I’m going to use sound dampening paint if its not overly expensive as I have to paint the walls with something. Lol 😂. I am also going to have heavy drapes along the wall for about 12 ft from the screen but the rest of the building will only have it on the windows.
Thanks again for doing this. Its is all very helpful.
I’m trying to find information about what different types of siding will do to dampen sound. Being I will have obs, then tyvek wrap and then siding will just add to the dampening effect, unfortunately have no idea how much. Found information on obs but not siding.

[Brettster]

pwade3 - really, you're doing an exterior shed right? I am as well, and about to get some new bids on finishing the interior and adding 4 feet to length... I'm not worried at all about sound, as it is an entirely stand-alone structure from the house and I don't expect there will be any sound transference, as far as it sits from any sleeping areas...

[pwade3]

Brettster - I am concerned about sound. I currently have my sim in my 4 bay garage. It is ground level and the neighbors house is close by. We live in a rural area and it is quiet. Standing outside, we can hear the driver. Its noticeable. Don’t really hear anything else. House was built with insulated concrete forms so they are very sound proof. The weakness is the garage doors and windows. The garage doors are a heavy insulated type but we still get too much noise transferring to the outside. The new building will be 16 x 30. It will be in the back corner of the property and about 80ft from the neighbor but will be right beside them if they are gardening or enjoying their back yard. Kaos is doing it the right way. He going the extra step to avoid sound issues and even though only one wall of his sim is attached to the house, I’m sure he does not want noise effecting his yard or neighbors . I will be going the extra step just to be on the safe side. I like my neighbor’s. I have a buddy of mine who converted his unfinished detached garage to a sim. Insulation and drywall etc and he says that standing in the yard that they can hear the driver but it is not really loud, but he lives in the city so ambient noise there is higher then the extremely quite area I live in.

[ACgolfer]

Wow. Poor job on the drywall - they were probably hoping to tape and mud before you noticed the large gaps. I had a few gaps on my installation but I installed it myself and I am not a drywaller. Good luck and its looking good!

pwade3 - if you are building it yourself, save time and hire an experienced person that does taping and mudding. It is a huge pain but by far the worst job is sanding!!

[Brettster]

I can't stand mudding/sanding ACgolfer. You're right, always have this done by an expert - the difference between what a drywall guy can do compared to your own work is usually night and day and not something you can easily correct/hide - I've tried it myself in my basement. The only way I could make it look good was ' a lot of trim '.

[John6577]

Wow. Poor job on the drywall - they were probably hoping to tape and mud before you noticed the large gaps. I had a few gaps on my installation but I installed it myself and I am not a drywaller. Good luck and its looking good!

pwade3 - if you are building it yourself, save time and hire an experienced person that does taping and mudding. It is a huge pain but by far the worst job is sanding!!

Currently in the process of having mud, tape and sanding done. Not cheap, but having the drywall done by an experienced professional from start to finish is money well spent. Its a super pain to do on your own and ensure it looks good when done. I paid more than I had originally budgeted for drywall (about $2k more) but very glad I did. I absolutely hate working with drywall!

[Kaos]

Additional blocking was installed around windows and doors. Drywall rehung and fire caulking was done. This crew did a much better job and the gapping is substantially correct now. Siding was completed all the way around. Interior insulated entry door was installed and caulked. Yard was graded and grass seed put down. I hope the mudding will be started in the morning (and will probably take 2-3 days). Once mud is complete it will be trimmed and painting can begin and then carpet! I am hoping to be painting by Wednesday or possibly Tuesday. Electrician can then finish off equipment install, lights, switches and outlets and fire up mini split. I will really start to get excited when mud and sanding is complete!

[Kaos]

Gutters were installed and first two coats of mud were put on. The crew is sanding and touching up mud, fixing the living room where the entry door was installed and spraying knockdown on ceiling tomorrow. I believe the trim is being installed Monday along with window sills. I am hoping to be painting on Tuesday (or Wednesday at the latest) so I can get electrical finalized.

Ugggh...the real estate assessor also came by so they can increase my real estate tax bill (they certainly didn't waste any time!).

[Kaos]

Initial test was done with Db meter using the drywall crew music. The Db in the room was running about 80-90. Just on the other side of the entry door it read an average of around 45Db. Half way up the stairs it was around 40 Db. You could still hear some of the low frequency base, but it wasn't too bad as in not annoying. BEFORE mud was installed I did a higher frequency test of about 110-113Db. Measured in the Master bedroom with everything turned off, I got a reading of about 53 Db. My wife watches TV at a Db of 48-55 (level 7-8 out of 100 on Vizio TV). I suspect that after carpet, enclosure and curtains are installed, I expect that number to drop a little. I am thinking that after carpet and sound dampening curtains are in, I may drop to the high 40s as measured in the master. I also measured the Db of a iron at impact and I consistently got 108-113 Db in the garage with the Db meter about 7-8 feet from impact. Hopefully, I can get it to a level where the TV masks any impacts or at least that you will have to be listening for them to really hear them.

[Kaos]

Drywall mudding was completed today and knockdown was sprayed on ceiling. Dry time for initial mudding was quite long (3 days). Painting will begin tomorrow. I am hoping to get electricity and min split fired up by Thursday (possibly Wednesday, depending on how much painting I can complete tomorrow). Planning on carpet being installed later this week.

[pwade3]

Making great progress. I’m still waiting on plans. Lol 😂.

[Kaos]

My contractor is old school and drew the plans by hand. He charged me $3K for them but gave me credit toward the contract if I signed. He actually told me later that he never does that, (he usually will only give half credit). That actually made the city permits go quicker and the homeowner's association approve was a snap.

[pwade3]

Mine are being drawn up by the designer who did the plans for our house which was a large custom home. I think he is giving me a deal as its only costing $400 cdn. The house plans cost a lot more. You did well getting the credit for using him as contractor. Well done.

[Kaos]

I managed to get the entire room primed and the walls painted. The lighting was bad so the green in the pics is not true. I started taping top of walls and had to quit. Painting 11ft walls and ceiling is hard on the back, neck and shoulders. One of the contractor guys delivered the baseboards and trim and put them in the middle of the room making painting difficult having to climb around that stack. I should finish up ceiling tomorrow and will touch up walls. I hope I don't have to fight with the baseboard guy for space in the morning...lol.

The one thing I did mean to mention that for those looking to do the painting themselves on new drywall install, be sure sweep and mop the drywall before priming so the primer and paint stick. I took the extra step of blowing the drywall with my yard blower after I swept and mopped it. It added perhaps 45 mins to the job, but the results will be worth it in the long run.

[Treyc321]

Getting close!!!