Converging stereoscopic set up

[keither5150]

GSA asked me if I would be interested in trying their new converging stereoscopic set up. Even though I am in no shape to play a full round, I can climb a ladder and move some cameras. To switch from a PX5 to PX5 converging stereoscopic you will need to move both cameras on the ceiling about 8 feet apart. Calibration of the camera was quite easy. Each camera has a crosshair overlaid on the image it takes. Put a ball on the center line. Adjust both cameras that the ball is in the crosshairs. Now comes the painful part. You now need to calibrate it. The calibration steps take about 10-15 mins...….. I had to do it more than once because at first it wasn't saving my calibration table. GSA has fixed that issue. I won't go into the calibration steps as GSA's website has this information in great detail. I wasn't really expecting that big of an improvement. I was actually expecting HA to not be as accurate. But I was hoping that speed would be more accurate.

I did some crude tests to simulate the exact same shot over and over again. To do this I put a strip of tape in the FOV. I tried different lengths and placed it at different angles. The tape will trigger the cameras. Because the tape never moves, it shows as the same ball trace over and over again.

I tested HA from 0.05 to 7.6 degrees off center. 95% of the time it is within +/- 0.06 degrees. 5% of the time it goes as high as 0.13 +/- degrees.

Speed was tested from 24 mph up to 200 mph. 95% of the time speed was within +/- 0.62 mph. 5% of the time it went as high as 1.08 +/- mph

LA was tested by measuring the ball mark on the screen and then using a right angle triangle calculator, you can figure out the launch angle. I would say that the LA is always within 0.5 degrees.

So over all accuracy is equal or better than the X,Y system. The verdict is that I won't be changing the cameras back .

[sturonek]

Well that makes sense now. I just set mine up as converging and didn't realize that I still needed to set the table....I thought that was just for the stereographic where the cameras are next to each other. Good news is the standard table isn't to far off for me anyways. I will take the time to do the calibration table Friday and report what I find as well

[keither5150]

I ran a laser down the center line. Then put some white hockey tape on that line in a few spots. That made it easier to line up the two cameras. I used the tripod method along with a few 10cm blocks. A few things will change for you. Scale adjustment doesn't work now. So putting speed will have to be set in carry factors. Scale is automatically done by the table during calibration. You will also need the latest update or else your calibration table may not be saved. Also, you should try IBS. It may allow you to get rid of a few lights..... It works great now.

[sturonek]

Great idea with the laser. I actually didnt have to hard of a time getting the cameras aligned on the center point with just putting a ball out there. I will keep that in mind with the putting....that was one of the first things i noticed was really off. What would normally be a 10 ft putt with the old x,y system was only going a 1.5ft in the game. Do you know of a way to set the whole CP to factory defaults? I worry that I have screwed with some many things (some which I may not even notice). I would rather start with a complete clean slate. Maybe its best to just uninstall and reinstall the CP; I still have the original install CD

[keither5150]

No need to do that, You need the recent update for this to work anyway. For putting, check both cameras. If one camera is not getting a good trace, it will be way off. Also both launch positions need to be moved to the bottom of the screen. My putting works perfect now. I had to boost putting 15% to make like before and to match. ( 8feet in the game= 8 feet in the basement)
Because my cameras are 6 feet from the tee, I have to turn raw angle off for LA and direction. Otherwise short chips are misread. I will hit a few balls today and see how it goes. The other day I was hitting a few way off center to see how accurate LA and direction are. After measuring the ball marks on the screen and doing the math. LA and HA was always within 1/2 degree, Calibration takes about 15 min so it's not too bad. Time to add a spin camera ….me thinks

[sturonek]

Where did you make the change for putting? Everything else is really good, but putting is very slow. I need to speed it up. Right now a 10ft putt in real life only goes 3 feet in the game

[keither5150]

You can boost putting in Carry factors. Adjust your cameras that the full trace is picked up. Once I did that, putting did not need to be boosted.

[sturonek]

It was getting the full trace, that was the first thing I checked (always the first thing I look for on a "weird" shot) I will take a look at the carry factors. I thought I adjusted that and it didnt seem to make any difference

[GripItAndRipIt]

I just picked up a PX5 and set it up as converging. I am still waiting for my TGC license key(hopefully tomorrow) but Keither and I have been discussing converging with Martin a bit.
After you make a putt, go into CP and it should be in Putting mode. The one camera will have a button for “show putting table” (I believe this is the wording). I believe you will need to make a putt at every 1 mph increments as you can only adjust the highlighted one from your last putt. Hope this helps!

[keither5150]

Grip is right, make sure that the CP is going into putting mode. I have only played a few holes but my game (TGC) seems to be going into putting mode when on the green. You will then need to check that your control panel has shutter speed settings near the default. After the last update, I returned my putting boost back to 100%. You probably know this.....but you have to make sure that the complete trace is being picked up by both cameras. I am waiting for one small bug fix from Martin. My slow chips are not always being picked up properly. I need to be able to move my Launch position in the CP back about 18 inches. Hopefully that gets done today as I have some time to play.

[keither5150]

Update: I figured out how to move my launch position back. In the CP there is "image shift" I adjusted the image up far enough for me to move my launch position back. Along with that I installed another 12x12 Fiberbuilt piece of fairway in front of my hitting strip. So I take slow chips from there. Putting works awesome as you can see in the video below. Chipping is equally accurate. Irons seem really good. I will be asking a buddy to come over with his GC2 to see how close the stereo system is on speed. All is working well now.

[keither5150]

Here is a little video showing the accuracy of stereo putting.

https://youtu.be/V5Hg4nYk1d4

The stereo setup is proving to be very accurate. sturonek after taking a closer look at my traces and doing some small adjustments. I have putting set at 100% on Carry Factors.

[keither5150]

Anyone else notice that the delay on the video seems like a long time for a GSA product? I noticed and asked Martin..... What's up? Martin explained that a few users had issues of the ball launching before club data was processed. This could be an issue on older hardware. So GSA added a delay to make sure that club data was received before launching. Today Martin has made that delay adjustable for the rest of us. Shot delay is back to less than a second.

[GripItAndRipIt]

Great Video! I just received my TGC license so I can’t wait to get home and try it.
Keith- You mention carry factors. So I assume you have carry factors turned on? Have you adjusted for all your clubs?

[keither5150]

I do have my carry factors on. Irons, driver and woods are set at 105% SW and LW are set at 95% because I find that at 100, they carry a little too far on short chips. . With my elevation the reality is about 8% but 5% is close enough and is what the tour allows. My two favorite driving ranges are "New 2017 Mthunt driving range and short game" and " Range 2 ProTee SFR" I think that most of us started on " Little brook manor" which might be the easiest course. You may want to start there, until you get the hang of it.

[Solstice72]

I saw the video, impressively accurate and cool. Could you start the ball on the tape and hit right or left depending on the break and have it work? Or you must change the reticle ingame AimPoint and just proceed to hit straight as you can every time?

A side question are you at 4K settings on that monitor?

[keither5150]

No 4 K..... I think that the maximum off center the sim will read is about 17 degrees. If a guy wanted, he wouldn't have to aim in the game at all. For putts that are not breaking a lot, I just aim off of center a bit. For putts that break a lot, I will move the target in the game.....it's just easier. But if I have a 12 foot putt that will break 3 inches..... I just putt. With this sim, if you missed, you really missed. Not too many people talk about putting in TGC. The ball physics and the way the ball reacts on the green is nothing short of awesome. Putting is one of the best things about TGC. Funny that I autoputted on my old sim software..... the putting was that bad. My buddies are impressed with how true to life the putting experience is on TGC.

[Fairways IGC]

So i was working on converting to the parallel stereo scopic set up before martin came up with the converging. It was not quite ready and then the converging method came out. Anyone have theirs set up in stereoscopic parallel?

[keither5150]

If you have the room you should go with converging. The only reason that stereoscopic parallel exists is that the cameras can be mounted in a case by GSA and shipped as one unit. This is more for new customers. Converging can be set up at any distance really. 8 feet apart and 6 feet ahead really works well in my room. You will need to go through the calibration process with both setups anyway. I wasn't interested in the stereo parallel set up due to the fact that you had to putt from the hitting surface. Martin has since came up with off center putting. So you could putt from the stance mat....which would be better than the fiberbuilt mat. Martin, Swiggs, and I worked out the kinks in the new software quite quickly. For new customers, I would suggest buying the CX3 and then setting up in converging stereo. To answer your question..... Everyone that I know, has set it up converging stereo as there is no advantage for existing users to go parallel.

[Fairways IGC]

keither5150, sorry, im going to ask a lot of questions because im very interested but have been hesitant to make the switch...

At 8 feet wide and 6 feet ahead of hitting area, what are you fining is the max FOV to capture valid shot data? What is the max horizontal and vertical launch angles? Depending on the locations and orientations of the cameras it will produce different blind spots where the cameras FOV dont see or don't overlap.

With stereo, 2 cameras need the entire ball streak for speed as well. How far from the trigger camera line do you need to capture a 220 mph ball? (This would vhange depending on exposure time, but im using default)

I assume your cameras are between 8-10 high. So higher launch angles will be nearer an area of the FOV that will have a shorter maximum ball streak length. So, Are you finding any unreasonable limits anywhere in the FOV?

Can you give me an idea of what angle the cameras are at relative to vertical in your set up? Is your trigger cam still inline with the overhead cameras?

I know you recommend avoiding it, but In my bay the parallel setup may be easier, if it is just as accurate. And it may have a better FOV, center high launch angles.

Lastly, how did you mount your IR lights and which model do you have? Would you recommend the lights you have or think a different brightness and beam width would perform better?

Thanks for the time.

[keither5150]

1. Max FOV is more than any golfer will every need at 8' 6'. My screen is 12 feet away and 13.5 feet wide. I had a guest over that missed the screen. And the shot was picked up. I estimate that max HA is over 15 degrees. My cameras are 8'8" off the floor. Max LA is about 50 degrees.

2. At my camera distances, it should pick up to 220 mph. I checked this by putting a strip of white hockey tape on floor. If you find that the FOV does not pick up the complete trace, you can always change the cameras shutter speed. Both shutter speeds need to be the same.


3.I have found that at my camera distances all shots are picked up. I have not found any blind spots. With Parallel your FOV will be smaller. With my setup, I should have a blind spot at dead center over 52 degrees LA. But I would be dangerously close to hitting my LS cam with that shot. I find that 6 and 8 feet are the perfect distances for a stereo setup. At this distance the club head will never be picked up by the cameras. And you can set up a putting area ahead of your hitting mat.


4. LS cam is still inline with the other cams. Not sure of the angles that the cameras are at. When setting up, you place a ball on the ground on the center line, at the start of the LS cam FOV. There are crosshairs overlaid on each camera image during calibration. Line up the crosshairs on the ball.

5. Not sure if anyone needs more than 50 degrees LA. At 56 degrees LA , I will be hitting the LS cam with my shots.

6. My IR lights came with a mount. I have two of these lights ( CMVision-IR200 - 198 IR LED Night Indoor/Outdoor Long Range) They can be picked up on Amazon. I have them mounted right beside each camera. I also have a center halogen for the LS cam. I have no issues with the amount of light. I am using IBS which is fantastic for people with lighting challenges. The reason I am using IBS is that I eventually want to go with a actual putting green instead of black non reflective carpet.

[GripItAndRipIt]

Converging has worked well. I am new so I haven’t tried any other set up to compare to, but the wider you go will give better FOV. I have limited space so my converging is only 6 feet apart. If you are not using IBS make the switch. It’s great.
As Keither said, he and I were the guinea pigs of the set up and Martin worked quickly with us to get all the bugs out. Good luck!