GSA golf releases Vistrak (Alpha testing)

[flightscoperick]

So my understanding is you can use VisTrak as a full L.M on its own

[GripItAndRipIt]

Yes. On it’s own and use TGC, E6, etc...
This is what I will be doing and I will have the optional Vcam added.

[keither5150]

Yes, that is the goal. A single camera overhead launch monitor. We are currently Alpha testing ball detection, shot triggering, video replay. Hopefully Alpha testing will confirm if the current hardware will suffice. There will also be a few different versions of Vistrak. A single overhead camera will have issues with launch angle accuracy. Similar to the challenges that floor mounted launch monitors have challenges with measuring HA. For those who demand greater accuracy in their data, an optional Vcam can be added to the system for $690. This addition would ensure that the LA is every bit as accurate as HA. Single camera Vistrak LA accuracy will be tested shortly.

[gunserotti]

Is the vcam on the floor/another ceiling ocation or is there a version where it is placed in the VisTrak ceiling enclosure? If the most accurate setup has the vcam located elsewhere (not in the enclosure) then I'm less interested unless testing shows it is more accurate than the Uneekor.

Also do you know if the current software has the ability to add integrated FO and DTL cams for swing analysis like Uneekor? This is a key feature for me as I will mostly use this for practice/swing analysis.

[keither5150]

Currently the Vcam is mounted on the floor about 5-6 feet ahead of the tee and off to the side... about 5-7 feet from the center line. Beta versions will be sold without the case. A cased version will be an option in the near future.

Another option is to add the Vistrak to a GSA stereo system. This has not been tested yet. In this setup. all cameras would be on the ceiling. This version will eventually have a cased option.
The current software does not support additional webcams for swing video. This will be part of a future driving range/ club fitting software package.
Vistrak will also have a more zoomed in video of the club going through the ball. Club face and impact location will easily be seen in this video.

You can expect head to head testing with other products within the next month or two. So it depends on your timeframe. If you need to purchase a sim right away, the Vistrak is not it. However if you want to take advantage of some great entry level pricing.... Beta units will be starting at $750. You can add two Vcams for $690 each. There will be more than a few on the used market once Vistrak hits beta testing. A guy can mount the two cameras in stereo and have the Vistrak in the middle. I have had my GSA PX5 system set up in a stereo configuration for about a year. I can tell you that LA,HA, ball speed is all very accurate. GSA's stereo configuration is very solid. A few videos showing GSA's stereo configuration are on YouTube under Keither5150.

Beta pricing will be available for a limited time. The Beta testing program is expected to be open in a little over a month. Single camera Vistrak retail pricing is expected to be $1495-2795 once the Beta pricing is no longer available. More information about the Beta testing program will be here on the forum in the coming weeks.

[gunserotti]

Thanks for the reply....I'll wait and see how this progresses. I'm looking for an integrated highly accurate ball/club ceiling launch monitor (like GC Hawk). I find the GSA website a bit confusing but the more I browse it I think I'm beginning to understand the modular nature of the system. It seems to me that the CX surround is currently the best WRT to accuracy and setup (similar to GC Hawk).

[Fairways IGC]

You are spot on about the CX surround. One difference (which i prefer) is the CX surround has a single large hitting zone down center line where as the hawk actually has a lefty and righty hitting area. The center is actually not a hitting area. Like you said it is modular so youd be able to utilize the CX surround stand alone, and then add a club cam or wait for the vistrak and add at that time for club and ball data.

[keither5150]

CX surround with Vistrak will have a hitting area of 12x29 inches based at a mounting height of 9 feet. With Vistrak, it will replace the current LS cam ( line scan camera ) which triggers the other cameras. Left and right handed players can hit from the exact same spot. The software will have to know whether the player is left handed or right handed.

[flightscoperick]

So from what I have read on the GSA website the VisTrak will be something like the Uneeker but at a lower price point

[keither5150]

That is the plan. There will be a couple of different versions. One version just for club data and video playback for GC2 and Skytrak owners. One entry level unit to compete with R-motion and Optishot. The entry level unit may not have all the features of the full Vistrak. Please note that it may be possible for all 3 units to be exactly the same with the exception of software. That is one of the many questions that we are trying to answer during Alpha testing. A few differences that I have noticed. Our video playback is more zoomed in. Impact location and club face angle can be easily seen. I never knew that I hit so many of my shots closer to the toe. I never thought that I would care about the video replay but, it's pretty cool.

[flightscoperick]

Doing some more reading what lighting would you choose halogen or if leds and why. My video camera is behind my hitting area mounted on the ceiling would the halogen light effect the image on the screen. I have 3500 lumens projector.

[keither5150]

Mike is building custom focused IR lights to test. The IR lighting that I have is not bright enough. So I am testing different halogens which are 9 degrees. This beam is quite focused. If halogen wins, they will be recessed in a case, so that much of this light does not make it to the screen. We are all leaning towards using IR if they will work as well as halogens. IR will give a better image on the screens.

[keither5150]

There is a picture of my driver on GSA's Tech News page. Notice my inside out path and how quickly I am closing the face. I worked hard on that. It seems more accurate than the PX mat. The PX mat was accurate within 0.65 degrees for face and path. Black drivers and woods will have to be marked.....Which means my G400 max gets tape on the top. Iron club data does not need club markings with my current lighting configuration. We have not tested black irons yet. Please note that I am using halogen lights and our goal is to make this work with IR. While we can't guarantee that you won't need markings... the 3 of us currently don't mark our irons. Martin has a few minor things to fix and then I will post some videos with TGC2019. Delay is almost zero.... I am used to about 1/2 second with my PX5. It will take some getting used to. Also , the hitting area gets a little smaller when using the driver as we need a few good images before impact. So, while the system can read the ball near the back of the 28 inch long hitting area. The usable hitting area with the driver is only about 20 inches long. Currently we are not measuring spin. Spin detection is next on the list. This may be our most difficult challenge. We have a plan A,B, and C. in place. So it will happen.

Mike is testing some custom built IR lights.....Mike is designing the lights himself.

[keither5150]

Just finished testing Vistrak with the optional Vcam. No issues to report. Vcam works great with the Vistrak. Vcam provides LA only.

[flightscoperick]

What is the results with out the Vcam

[keither5150]

Martin hasn't tackled that yet. I am not thinking that they will be good..... So the user will have 3 choices, measured LA from the Vistrak, TBD, user defined LA based on club selection, or suggested LA based on club selection.

Anyone serious about accuracy or improving will want to add the Vcam. Looks like Vistrak will be available in GSA's surround system as well. That would be a 3 camera system. Testing on the Vistrak Surround will start after Beta test is well underway.

If we end up adding a flash to Vistrak, the accuracy of the LA will improve drastically. No worries either way..... I am sure that plenty of GSA owners will be selling one of their extra cameras once they upgrade to Vistrak. I might have one myself for sale soon. Or I might put them both back on the ceiling in stereo..... haven't decided yet.

[flightscoperick]

I noticed Martin has changed a few things on the VisTrak. Can you explain any of this to us. What’s the setback. Also doing some reading on the CX Surround do you have any experience with this. Can you give me any insight

[keither5150]

With the current camera, more light is needed for accurate club and ball data at all speeds. Martin and Mike will be doing some lighting tests over the weekend. These tests will determine whether we stay with the current camera for all Vistraks or run two different cameras.

The CX surround is basically the CX converging stereo system in a nice case. I had run my PX5 system in stereo for close to a year... It works great once calibrated. Calibration takes about 10 minutes. Both cameras are mounted on the ceiling, a few feet ahead of the hitting area. I have a few videos on YouTube with my PX5 system set up in stereo. The new Vistrak CX surround will have a Vistrak camera replace the LS camera for triggering. The Vistrak camera will give a large hitting area as well as club data and video replay of the club at impact.

So after some discussion with Martin and Mike. It seems that there will definitely be a few different versions of Vistrak to choose from. A single camera version with optional Vcam. A CX surround vistrak which will consist of 3 cameras. The last version will be a floor mounted launch monitor with 3 cameras. It is basically an updated KX unit. Testing of the KX and CX surround Vistraks will start after Beta testing on the single camera Vistrak is underway.

More information can be found here. https://www.golf-simulators.com/vistrak.html

[flightscoperick]

2 ? For you
1 if I purchase the CX surround can I add the VisTrak now or later
2 Do i need the floor Vcam with the CD Surround

[keither5150]

We will be testing the CX surround with Vistrak soon after the single camera Vistrak goes to Beta testing. I will check with Mike if we are ready to add the Vistrak camera now. We will be testing a version shortly that has spin detection from the two stereo cameras. Each stereo camera will have it's own flash.

No Vcam is needed with a stereo system. The left and the right cameras pick up LA, HA, speed.

[Fairways IGC]

Hey rick,
1. if you purchase the CX now it will have the trigger camera, and will function perfectly well on its own measuring ball speed, LA and HA with the highest level of accuracy. Yes you will be able to add the vistrak. To measure club data and provide slo-mo playback. We haven't come through getting the vistrak to measure spin. but there is a Bcam available that can do that. If you want club data now, there is a club cam available that does this as well. It will be nice when vistrak replaces the ccam and bcam with a single unit in the overhead.
2. If you have a CX surround you will not need the floor Vcam.

[flightscoperick]

I see a new update for VisTrak Beta. $850 with out LED light.$1200 with led light. So at $850 is there any type of lighting. What do you get for $850 in the beta test VisTrak

[keither5150]

Vistrak will be sold with the required lighting. Currently we are testing a $350 light. If that light does the job, the price will be $1200 for the Beta units. Mike is still trying to get a more cost effective way to get the required lighting. Mike has built some custom high powered focused IR lights. Hopefully they do the job. If we end up using Mike's custom built IR lights, the price will be closer to $850. We should be making a decision on lighting by Monday or Tuesday.

[keither5150]

So here is the latest. With the current single camera Vistrak, spin numbers are not as accurate as we would like. Therefore, the entry level single camera Vistrak will not be detecting spin. Spin numbers will be calculated from club data. So what's the plan for spin????? We will be testing shortly, a dual camera Vcam that will detect spin as well as LA. These cameras have been tested in the lab with a +/- 13 rpm up to 10000 rpm . The best that the current Vistrak camera could do would be +/- 170 rpm. At that point, you may as well use calculated spin. The single Vistrak camera also has to be set up to measure club data. It was proving nearly impossible to get club data and ball spin data on the same shot. The reason that a dual camera Vcam is being used is so that the camera can be placed on the floor 2 feet ahead of the tee and 5-10 feet off the center line. This placement will allow seamless left and right handed play.

So to recap...… The entry level Vistrak will be a single camera that will detect club data, ball speed, HA and have video playback of club impact. LA will need the addition of a Vcam or use a user defined LA based on club selection. For users that want a more accurate golfing experience, a Vcam can be added. You will have two choices for Vcam. The standard single camera Vcam for $690. Your second choice will be a Vcam /Ball spin dual camera. Pricing has not be set for this option yet. Once these two options enter beta testing, we will start exploring the possibility of creating a Vistrak Pro. This will be a single camera overhead unit. The goal of the Pro will be to provide all things with one camera. So what does this all mean???? It means that every Vistrak overhead unit will be the same. A user can choose to have a more accurate system by adding one of the two Vcams available. Once these systems hit production, the LX and KX Vistrak launch monitors will start their Alpha testing. I have been testing the standard Vcam addon to the single camera overhead Vistrak. The standard V camera works fine with no issues. I am waiting for a cost of the Vcam/with spin. I should have that info shortly.

[flightscoperick]

Here’s a ? for you. Couldn’t we just by the Surround Kit with out the line scan camera and install the VisTrak

[keither5150]

Yes, But that would give you calculated spin at this time. Were you looking for everything to be mounted on the ceiling?

[keither5150]

Looks like there are plans to offer the dual bcam in the surround unit. The new case was designed house all of the cameras and flashes. That would bring the total to 5 cameras. Not sure on the cost or even if this unit will be feasible. We have to consider that once you get up to 5 cameras, it may be less expensive to put a single super high end camera that can do the job. These high end cameras alone will be 3-5 k and will require that the data be transferred in real time. Vistrak Pro anyone????