Handicap Index and *** Optishot Tour

[CatMan]

Hey Guys,

Eventually we will be moving towards a Handicap process, this will keep the field close but also encourage players to practice and improve there score..
What I have in mind is a Weighted Handicap: Handicap weighted against the Gross.

Works something like this Player A is a Scratch golfer, Player B is a 20 Handicap, it we use a Weight of 75% handicap and 25% Gross Player B would have a handicap of 15 coming into Tournament.. Player A would stay same because he is Scratch..

This process will always give the edge to the better golfer, and will encourage golfers to improve there score instead of just settling.

The Weights can vary from week to week until we find a weight that is fair for all and keep it tight..

Please let me know your thoughts

Thanks
CatMan

[JohnMeyer]

I've never seen someone claim to be a + index and not know how a handicap system works.

You have a 2 index in your league who shot 64 / 65.... Game over.

You say that but before this event he'd never shot below 75, how can anyone predict that he'd go from 75 to 64?

The whole issue is people are suddenly improving soooo much too quickly for handicaps to be accurate.

This is the point of Q school, so that rapid improvement is absorbed in those events and not the Tour Event

Oh and KNB/Sliceomatic, this is not an attack on your or saying you've done anything wrong in any way, its just your results are highlighting the problems in the handicap system we currently have

[KingB84]

Good players can "sandbag" to whatever level they want. Q school players that are really good can shoot whatever score they need to fit their agenda.

[Willymakit]

I've never seen someone claim to be a + index and not know how a handicap system works.

You have a 2 index in your league who shot 64 / 65.... Game over.

Hey hogan I know how a handicapp works so quit attacking me. What doesn't make sense is when you try to use the same system that set up like in real golf. I been playing golf for over 40 years and not once I have I seen a plus 10 handicapp or even a plus 5 or even a plus 2 shoot the scores that I see on here shooting that low. It's called impossible in real life. So why treat it like that.

[HWoods]

Hey hogan I know how a handicapp works so quit attacking me. What doesn't make sense is when you try to use the same system that set up like in real golf. I been playing golf for over 40 years and not once I have I seen a plus 10 handicapp or even a plus 5 or even a plus 2 shoot the scores that I see on here shooting that low. It's called impossible in real life. So why treat it like that.

You don't understand how it works, if you did you'd try and fix the real problem. You need to do a better job as a league with the indexes of your players. If a course this week is that easy - then that's fine but you have to know going in that you won't have a chance. That's just the bottom line. No matter what the system unless you start adjusting guys mid tournament.

Both of these factors are true in real life tournaments. 1 vs 1, a low index has an advantage but in a field of 20+, the odds are a mid/high index will go low at least once. That's what a NET event is. You can't stop this. It will happen no matter what you do. The harder the course, the less advantage you give the higher indexes.

[KingB84]

Also, the more rounds played tend to favor the lower handicapper. They don't vary as much & their blowups aren't nearly as destructive to a tourney or round.

[HWoods]

I'm going to add that you can change things all day but when you are done, someone else will complain. As always I'm open to any suggestions but I would recommend that you simply manually override caps of any sandbaggers or quick learners that you find. Lots of guys give up when they are going to post a high score but when it's going well, they play with attention. This to me is sandbagging and inflates caps. You can't have a guy who avgs 80 shooting almost 20 shots below his avg and then wonder about the system. No matter what system is in place, it will not stop that.

[Willymakit]

So here's my suggestion on how the optishot handicapp system should work.

Once you play in the Q school and come out of there to the handicapp division you would have a fair handicapp.

So let's take myself for example. I'm a -7 handicapp. So once I know my handicapp my target for that tournament is to shoot -7 or better to be even par for the tournament. So say for example I shoot - 6,-4,-5 for the tournament. I would be 7 over par. So now for next tournament I might be a handicapp of -5. And I end up shooting better scores because the course was playing easier. So the scores are -10,-8,-12. So in therory u would be -9 for tournament but I would be at even par because I shot my targeted number for the tournament.

So then say the guy is a 10 handicap and shoots +10,+8 and +12 he would end up at 2 over par. But say he plays on a easy couse with the same handicapp if 10 and shoots a 68,72,69 then he would have shot his handicap so in that case he would be at even par and tied with who ever else's shoots there handicapp. Then for tie breakers you could look on score card and count back wards from hole 18 to see who has first birdie or so on.


That way everybody has a number to shoot for and if they do they can at least be in contention each week.

[JohnMeyer]

I'm going to add that you can change things all day but when you are done, someone else will complain. As always I'm open to any suggestions but I would recommend that you simply manually override caps of any sandbaggers or quick learners that you find. .

This is exactly true, the problem is trying to predict these quick learners before the next event when they shoot super low

Im confident Q school will fix 90% of the issues, as will time and rounds accumulated. Ultimately without data Catman has to just give his best estimate of what to assign, and with no data other than what he can see, I cant see how he could do a better job.

Jason the above would require all sorts of adjustments to the website I am sure, and ultimately still wouldnt fix the root cause, which is as Hogan identifies, players with too high a cap.

I appreciate its a work around, but hopefully an unneccesary one. The handicap league, once a full q school programme is in place, and all current players have sufficient rounds will be competitive.

For the likes of yourself in the interim, the non handicap league gives you a level footing with the other very good players in order to competitive.

Plus if you just equal your best ever round, something that is totally possible on this course you'll shoot a -2, and be up in the top 5. The mega low scores are just beyond us, but does winning the event really matter youll still be competitive with everyone else

[tb_tyler]

So here's my suggestion on how the optishot handicapp system should work.

Once you play in the Q school and come out of there to the handicapp division you would have a fair handicapp.

So let's take myself for example. I'm a -7 handicapp. So once I know my handicapp my target for that tournament is to shoot -7 or better to be even par for the tournament. So say for example I shoot - 6,-4,-5 for the tournament. I would be 7 over par. So now for next tournament I might be a handicapp of -5. And I end up shooting better scores because the course was playing easier. So the scores are -10,-8,-12. So in therory u would be -9 for tournament but I would be at even par because I shot my targeted number for the tournament.

So then say the guy is a 10 handicap and shoots +10,+8 and +12 he would end up at 2 over par. But say he plays on a easy couse with the same handicapp if 10 and shoots a 68,72,69 then he would have shot his handicap so in that case he would be at even par and tied with who ever else's shoots there handicapp. Then for tie breakers you could look on score card and count back wards from hole 18 to see who has first birdie or so on.


That way everybody has a number to shoot for and if they do they can at least be in contention each week.

If you did this you'd end up with a tie breaker every week. Which would not be fun.

I think the Q school will fix most of the issues as well. One thing I noticed is that I had not really even swing a golf club until I read about this tour. So I jumped all in as quick as possible. Catman set my original cap at -2 which made it impossible to really compete in my first tournament. BUT, it was my first tournament. I shouldn't expect to. Had I gone the Q school route I would improve my play and cap all at the same time. Again, I think this solves the majority of the issues.

Alternatively, this is why there is a Pro Tour. At my local club we have both a club championship and a handicap championship. I never even put my name in the hat for the handicap. I don't want it, and know that I probably wouldn't have a chance to win anyway. If I'm going to play it's for the real deal. In my mind once you hit a certain level on Optishot you should be in the Pro Tour and not even compete in the handicap tour.

[tb_tyler]

This is exactly true, the problem is trying to predict these quick learners before the next event when they shoot super low

This too. I'm a 3.8 handicap in real life. Like I said in the post above I had not picked up a club in like 4 months before I saw this online tour. Then I wanted to jump right in. My scores drastically improved because I've essentially played 10 rounds of golf in three weeks. If I did this in real life my game would drastically improve(which I don't because I don't have that much time.)

The other thing to consider is the learning curve of the game--because it is a video game. There are tricks to learn--just like the EA Sports games.

[HWoods]

Great posts, tyler. Explains it pretty well.

[CatMan]

This is my suggestion on the Handicap, change the max score on hole to Bogey, anything higher system Rejects. System take best 3 Rounds out of 15, so it creates stability... This will also give lower caps a chance....

Like I said initially in my opening comments on the Thread, the System should favor the better Golfer and encourage higher cap players to get better...

[CatMan]

With that said we have Pro Tour, with no handicap where everything is just like on the PGA, your score is your score....

[psgolfer]

So here's my suggestion on how the optishot handicapp system should work.

Once you play in the Q school and come out of there to the handicapp division you would have a fair handicapp.

So let's take myself for example. I'm a -7 handicapp. So once I know my handicapp my target for that tournament is to shoot -7 or better to be even par for the tournament. So say for example I shoot - 6,-4,-5 for the tournament. I would be 7 over par. So now for next tournament I might be a handicapp of -5. And I end up shooting better scores because the course was playing easier. So the scores are -10,-8,-12. So in therory u would be -9 for tournament but I would be at even par because I shot my targeted number for the tournament.

So then say the guy is a 10 handicap and shoots +10,+8 and +12 he would end up at 2 over par. But say he plays on a easy couse with the same handicapp if 10 and shoots a 68,72,69 then he would have shot his handicap so in that case he would be at even par and tied with who ever else's shoots there handicapp. Then for tie breakers you could look on score card and count back wards from hole 18 to see who has first birdie or so on.


That way everybody has a number to shoot for and if they do they can at least be in contention each week.

What you just explained is exactly how it is now. Your the -7 and KNB is the 2.

I was kidding about blowing up your cap, I think there was an LOL in there, if not, I wasn't serious.

[psgolfer]

With that said we have Pro Tour, with no handicap where everything is just like on the PGA, your score is your score....

Problem with that Catman, is not all of us can shoot 10 under like you, Willy and Vincent. That being said, the more I'm playing opti, the more things I'm learning to bring my score down. I feel we are on the right course here, I like the idea of taking fewer scores from more rounds to determine a persons handicap.

Currently under USGA and RCGA it's the best 10 out of 20 rounds. I like the idea of 3 or 4 of your best out of 12, This way, the lower cap will stay and lower and if a higher cap shoots a good score it will stay with them longer.

I like the road your traveling, might be something to look into further.

[CatMan]

All good stuff,

we will get it figured out and players will definitely get better as they play on the system.. KNB had a chance to beat me outright if he score -8 or better on 3rd Round.. He still did pretty well, but his improvement is remarkable...

Jason just shot -11 in 1st round, looks like he is well on his way to win this event on the Pro Tour Side if he can keep it together...

Players will improve their scores as they focus on each part of their game with Optishot, Driving accuracy, Iron Distances, Short Game, Sand Saves and Putting.. With each improvement the Scores will go lower and lower..

The Pro Tour will become much more competitive.. And yes Psgolfer I see you in that Mix very soon..

For us regional golfers that cant get out and play real golf this is all we have, so we can focus more time and energy working on our game within system.. Hopefully most of this will carry over into real golf..

[mikerochipshot]

the whole reason the handicap system we have is as tuff as it is to get right is lack of players. as I have said before if you had more players with more flights there would be no issues a player would only give up 2-4 strokes to the field. so lets try to promote this thing word of mouth if everyone could get two players to join in we would be close.that is if the site could handle four or five flight tournaments.