Handicap Index and *** Optishot Tour

[CatMan]

Hey Guys,

Eventually we will be moving towards a Handicap process, this will keep the field close but also encourage players to practice and improve there score..
What I have in mind is a Weighted Handicap: Handicap weighted against the Gross.

Works something like this Player A is a Scratch golfer, Player B is a 20 Handicap, it we use a Weight of 75% handicap and 25% Gross Player B would have a handicap of 15 coming into Tournament.. Player A would stay same because he is Scratch..

This process will always give the edge to the better golfer, and will encourage golfers to improve there score instead of just settling.

The Weights can vary from week to week until we find a weight that is fair for all and keep it tight..

Please let me know your thoughts

Thanks
CatMan

[CatMan]

John your cap is estimated on conservative side until you get enough rounds in. The system would of had you at 0. Next tournament you will have enough roundd in, it may be higher, lower, or dead on.

[JohnMeyer]

Yeah that's fine mate, just wondered how it worked regarding how handicap is actually not neccesarily my actual handicap but is in effect reliant on those who would be negative handicaps but are put to 0 so effective increases mine. So if yourself should have been say a -2 for this tourney and you are adjusted up to a 0 (no negative H/C shown) then my 8 actually means that should really be shooting 6 so a par round for me would be -2, as would yours

That's my understanding, may be wrong and being a bit dim I'm not really concerned, as playing for fun and Ill just play and what ever score it is then so be it, just wondered that's all

[CatMan]

Yes Corey (Vincent Vega) had lowest Index at -6, every stable player had 6 added to their index. New players I gave something without over doing it.

[JohnMeyer]

Thats cool so should be seeing -18 scores across the board then if everyone plays to par. Cheers, just wanted make sure I had a grasp of it

[JohnMeyer]

I still believe we should use negative handicaps. Would give the tour more credibility

Instead of nick winning the last one at -20 if we hadn't have added 6 strokes to everyone's index he woulve won at -2.

Looks a lot more realistic. At the moment we look a bit silly.

It's even on the home page of the ************** website

I'd suggest -10 to plus 18 as handicap limits as it's been suggested optishot plays 10 easier than real life

Also would be better if system created an auto handicap after 3 rounds not 4, especially if we're gonna continue doing 3 round events. You'd then get a handicap for your second tournament That's prob one for the site admins

If however were going back to 2 round and 4 round events Id leave it at 4 so ya won't get handicap until after 2 tournaments or 1 major

Would Save Catman the hassle of manual editing too, which can lead to
Mistakes and discrepancies.

It's a win win on all levels.

Let me know and I'll change guidelines to reflect this

[Buckeye]

Agree completely.

[Vincent_Vega]

I'm fine with playing with a negative handicap. That is if the system truly gets everybody playing close to par.

[CatMan]

Actually was considering start of 2nd Season, we have enough good data in system... which was what we where hoping for by that time....

[MatalaWedge]

Personnally I think having a cap at either end of the spectrum defeats the purpose of the system.

Sure.. I see that the idea would be to favor the better player slightly, but that might be a slippery slope... Where do we cap it...? Will the edge become larger as the best players get even better...? Will we have the same names at the top of the table week in week out? Do we want a level playing field where everyone will average mid table and everyone has a legitimate chance to do well or to even win? It would also make the points race much more interesting.

Why not just play the handicaps we have on any given day...

Even a very high hcp player should have a chance to do well. Say someone averages 100 and his best 5 of last 10 is 95 average.... but now goes ahead and shoots 90. I think he's play is just as worthy of a tap on the back as someone playing off -4 (plus four) scoring a net 72... Doubt anyone would notice the guys real world net -5 though.... the system (cap at 18) would give him a E and he would be sitting somewhere just above mid table...

I always hated it as a teenager and even as an "adult" when some middle aged guy with a horrific swing shot net -5 off a 22 hcp and was celebrated as the winner... Always thought my gross 75 was not getting the attention it deserved.

Now I am willing to admid I was completely wrong then. The guy with the horrific swing deserved it.... just as long as his HCP was correct...

As long as a player has the necessary amount of rounds on the database I feel he should get what the system gives him. If someone is at less than 10 rds, then it should be manual and very conservative.

My 2c

N.

[JohnMeyer]

Personnally I think having a cap at either end of the spectrum defeats the purpose of the system.

Sure.. I see that the idea would be to favor the better player slightly, but that might be a slippery slope... Where do we cap it...? Will the edge become larger as the best players get even better...? Will we have the same names at the top of the table week in week out? Do we want a level playing field where everyone will average mid table and everyone has a legitimate chance to do well or to even win? It would also make the points race much more interesting.

Why not just play the handicaps we have on any given day...

Even a very high hcp player should have a chance to do well. Say someone averages 100 and his best 5 of last 10 is 95 average.... but now goes ahead and shoots 90. I think he's play is just as worthy of a tap on the back as someone playing off -4 (plus four) scoring a net 72... Doubt anyone would notice the guys real world net -5 though.... the system (cap at 18) would give him a E and he would be sitting somewhere just above mid table...

I always hated it as a teenager and even as an "adult" when some middle aged guy with a horrific swing shot net -5 off a 22 hcp and was celebrated as the winner... Always thought my gross 75 was not getting the attention it deserved.

Now I am willing to admid I was completely wrong then. The guy with the horrific swing deserved it.... just as long as his HCP was correct...

As long as a player has the necessary amount of rounds on the database I feel he should get what the system gives him. If someone is at less than 10 rds, then it should be manual and very conservative.

My 2c

N.

I suggested the -10 to 18 cap as previously it was thought that Optishot gives most players a 10 stroke boost on their real life ability, and as handicaps in real life normally range from 0 to 28 i thought -10 to 18 was a good shift

As you say though could just leave it to the system and impose no limits.

10 round before getting a handicap is very excessive in my opinion, only because depending on how many events someone can play it may take them half a season to build up those 10 rounds and would they then lose interest. The automatic system as you say takes the best scores and averages them, so i would have thought after 4 rounds ( ie two normal tournaments) there would be sufficient data, however as you say manual adjustment could be made, but to have to wait until after 3 tournaments and a major before you are in theory on a level playing field with everyone else just seems a bit too long

[MatalaWedge]

I hear ya.

BUT

There is also the process of first playing without taped clubs and then getting used to the new settings and having the new world of taped clubs , playing on fast greens and in proper wind for the first time etc..... I averaged 77 for my first few rounds... then read up on a lot of things on the forum and average quite few less now that I have a few competitions under my belt... taped clubs and so on... I'm ashamed to say that I kinda feel I might have even had a slighly bloated HCP for the Thailand comp that was then played in easy conditions... Sorry about that CatMan... You were probably the best man on the day...

We need to be careful not have this happen on a regular basis....

[JohnMeyer]

I think this is a discussion that happens in real life golf clubs every day around the world lol

Its a tough one, and just need to get the balanced of not giving someone a handicap too high, thus creating a "Bandit" but also not so low that they are not competitive. If not remotely competitive due to handicap for more than 2 tournaments I think people may lose interest, thats my only concern, as you say need to make sure though that dont give them too much of an advantage. Its tricky

[MatalaWedge]

Yep. We are on the same page pal. Not an easy call.

[CatMan]

Guys Great News,

there is a new handicap System in place now, The functionality is a lot better than the last system.. Basically it will auto calculate everyones handicap after completing each round. Anyone with 8 Rounds or more their Handicap is locked and can't be adjusted, without administrative action.. 8 rounds or less I can adjust. You now can see your handicap index in your Profile..
The system does a lot more that maybe Hoganwoods can expound on it further..

Thanks Hoganwoods for the new features...

[Mike80]

Great stuff guys! Looking forward to the new system.

Question: Does it calculate based on a certain amount of rounds, and then continue to adjust and calculate as new rounds are played and old rounds are dropped off the list for calculating? This is how my summer league does it and works great. Also my league drops out the highest and lowest score. This way you can't skew your average with 1 great or 1 really bad round. Gets a better average this way.

Just curious on how the system works. Thanks!