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**CatMan** · 02-11-2015, 04:41 PM

Jason there is something your doing or not doing to have so many misreads. The solution is up to you to figure out, not make game to fit your circumstances

**Willymakit** · 02-11-2015, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by CatMan View Post

Jason there is something your doing or not doing to have so many misreads. The solution is up to you to figure out, not make game to fit your circumstances

I'm done trying to figure out my misreads. And it's not many. Sometimes it 1 to 3 a round but it ends up costing me up to 7 strokes. I tried to go for the mulligans but that got turned down And like im saying if misreads are part of the game so should the handicapp to reflect that.

So after seeing what's going on here I will just make a new name for the handicapp league. I'm done arguing

**tb_tyler** · 02-11-2015, 05:13 PM

^^ That -8 cap will go down eventually though depending on your scores. It's not the 5 best of all time it's just the 5 best of the most recent 10 rounds. I'm new to all this, but it looking at the scores they posted for you there is a lot of inconsistency. I guess you're saying the misreads are causing that.

I'm sure everyone's situation is different but since I taped my clubs I don't think I've had any misreads. I hit two balls in the ocean at PB in my first round. They were giant hooks. I don't think it was a misread though. I think I just had a very bad swing---the result was most likely exaggerated compared to real life. But I still hooked the ball. I had one other shot with my 6 iron fly like 220. But I think that was mostly my fault. It was downwind, downhill, and I cranked it with a draw.

**Willymakit** · 02-11-2015, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by tb_tyler View Post

^^ That -8 cap will go down eventually though depending on your scores. It's not the 5 best of all time it's just the 5 best of the most recent 10 rounds. I'm new to all this, but it looking at the scores they posted for you there is a lot of inconsistency. I guess you're saying the misreads are causing that.

I'm sure everyone's situation is different but since I taped my clubs I don't think I've had any misreads. I hit two balls in the ocean at PB in my first round. They were giant hooks. I don't think it was a misread though. I think I just had a very bad swing---the result was most likely exaggerated compared to real life. But I still hooked the ball. I had one other shot with my 6 iron fly like 220. But I think that was mostly my fault. It was downwind, downhill, and I cranked it with a draw.

The misreads that cost me strokes are the ones when I hit a 6 iron 240 yards to a 180 yard pin. Or the 3 wood that goes 320 with a 144mh swing. That's where it's costing me the strokes. When I get a open or closed club face it ususlly doesn't cost me any strokes. More or less it cost me making a chance for birdie.

And when I do score low I still get misreads but I'm lucky enough to salvage a par or bogey at the most.

Why I don't like the way the handicapp works is it takes your best 5 scores. Should be a average of all your scores.

But I guess I'm minority so either I live with it or don't play. Or make a new username. How does Ihatehandicapps work. lol.

**JohnMeyer** · 02-11-2015, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by psgolfer View Post

For example, I played torrey pines Monday (north) and Tuesday (south). If you watched any of the TV coverage over the weekend, you would of seen that the rough was brutal, in fact if you hit in the rough, it was essentially a one shot penalty. But the slope and rating did not change, it's what's called "rub of the green", sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. That being said, I don't get to post a score with a higher slope and rating, I post what I shot.
.

This is exactly my point.

Torrey Pines in real life has a rating of 75.3 due to the difficulty of the course. Part of this rating being higher than a standard 72 is due to the the length, and also the difficulty of the course due to the course obstacles. This is assesed by the USGA Ratings Team and a Rating is assigned. I fully understand that. As you say the rough is very harsh and so restricts you, I dare say bunker placement also has something to do with it, as well as distance. Also they must asses the greens too.

However Torrey Balck on Optishot, even if it is identical in every way, (which it may not be) is not as difficult as Torrey Pines Real Life. The rough does not result is a brutal punishment, the bunkers even if we hit them dont actually effect that much, can just go up 2 clubs to get the yardage back, and the distance increase is only a minor problem as its not that much harder in optishot to hit say a 3 iron than it is a 6 iron, as dont have to worry about lies etc. The greens aren't as hard as we get to set the speed and also get indications of the slopes etc.

It is for this reason that I dont think Torrey Black is as difficult as Torrey Pines, and so why should it have the same rating.

At the moment we are making out the courses are harder than they are by assigning them higher ratings. This results in players scoring below the Rating Par of the course, and having their handicaps reduced as a result, giving people to harsh a handicap.

It is the same for everyone Ill agree, but it does make our handicaps inaccurate.

I dont know if we have any real life scratch golfers on here, be interesting if we did and see what they would shoot on Torrey Black, under calm conditions, fast greens, no wind, back tees. Id be amazed if it was anywhere near 75.3. Im not sure what Catman is in real life but he shot 61! 14 below the score that a scratch golfer should get in real life. Stick his handicap on and he shot 68. so still 7 below the course rating. His worst Round was 68, so he did shoot 1 round at the course rating.

I get that we all post against par, and that is how our scores work which is correct, as you say you dont get to say what you post against Rating, but that score you post will be measure against the rating to determine your new handicap, and if it set too high, which i believe it is, you will get an artificially low score used in your cap calculation, as the system thinks you played really well to shoot below the rating. When in fact you didnt, its just the rating was set too high.

None of this will improve Jasons or anyones chance of winning directly. But it would ensure everyones handicap was calculated using the correct Net score, not over inflated ones due to the course being set a rating that shows it to be harder than it is.

Please dont think Im moaning yet again about this setup, as think its fantastic, but I think we accept that the courses are nowhere near as difficult on optishot as in real life, yet we rate them the same.

Ultimately it depends if we want to use incorrect handicaps and too high ratings to make scoring low harder, or just set it as the courses are easier (which they are) and end up with correct handicaps still based on best 5 from 10, but if you hit this average it should be a par, not a +2 over

It is fact that under the current system to hit a net Par you would have to shoot 2/3 shots below the average of your best 5 round from your last 10 rounds.

Surely a handicap should be that if you shoot the same as your average of your best 5 rounds form you last 10 that should be Net Par

Eg my best 5 from 10 pre this tournament were 72, 75, 76, 77, 77

This gives me an average of my BEST 5 of 75.4, so If I play to the average of my best 5 I would score +3.

Sure if I play to the average of my BEST 5 it should be PAR

However when the system calculated what the net score of those rounds was it used a rating that was to high, so that 72, instead of a net 0, was a net -2, as we told the system the course was a Rating 75.1

If we leave it the same ultimately peoples handicaps will all bet 2/3 shots lower than they should be, and scores will reflect this. Its not a problem as such. Its just not "right".

**mikerochipshot** · 02-11-2015, 07:59 PM

Digest, May, 2008

Handicaps

Q: How often you should beat your handicap?

A: You should average about three shots higher than your handicap. For example, a player with a Course Handicap of 16 on a course with a USGA Course Rating of 71.2 should average about 90, not 87. The USGA Handicap System is based on 96 percent of the best 10 differentials (corrected for Course and Slope Rating) of his last 20 rounds. More than half of your scores should be within three strokes of three over your handicap (87 to 93 in our example). Most golfers will beat their handicap (87 or better in our example) 20 per cent of the time and beat it by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds. For this player to break 80 (beat his handicap by eight), the odds are 1,138 to 1 that his handicap is correct. Do that twice and it would take the average golfer to play over 700 years of golf to accomplish it "fairly". In other words, odds far beyond reasonableness. .

By Dean Knuth, Golf Digest Professional Advisor. Former senior director of the USGA handicap department, Knuth invented today's USGA Course Rating and Slope system. EditRegion1

**CatMan** · 02-11-2015, 08:03 PM

Good stuff Mikerochipshot

**JohnMeyer** · 02-11-2015, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Willymakit View Post

Why I don't like the way the handicapp works is it takes your best 5 scores. Should be a average of all your scores.

It shouldnt, it should be the average of your best 5 scores from your last 10 rounds, your best 5 scores (63, 64, 65, 67, 68) give you and average of 65.4, so handicap should be -7 really, as you are regularly capable of hitting it, you average that 50% of your last 10 rounds. The fact you have rounds that blow up is besides the point, as if you didnt have those rounds, you have to be at -7 to make sure you dont shoot too low

**mikerochipshot** · 02-11-2015, 08:20 PM

maybe the post above will put things into perspective....I do find the courses on optishot with higher ratings to play harder. although its true about the rough being easier to play out of then in real life,, I don't know that the rough is used that heavily when courses are rated being it is not a consistent part of the course given that the greens keeper and weather factor in to how it plays ie; they let the rough grow out when the pros come to play.that and I find distance ,elevations , sand ,water and toughness of the greens all have an effect on how hard the course is on opti.

**mikerochipshot** · 02-11-2015, 09:06 PM

ultimately the only make the handicap system be the most fair is to have 100 plus players of all levels so we could flight it within a couple strokes of each other so my suggestion is we all try at our home courses to recruit guys to purchase optishot and join in the fun esp in those places where the golf seasons are limited should be an easy sale

**JohnMeyer** · 02-11-2015, 09:06 PM

This is very interesting Mike, it does indeed put things into perspective,

So from that article 50% of rounds should see scores on scorecards of +1,2,3,4,5,6

20% at -1 or -2 and only hit -3 once out of 20 round

I guess its just a weird thing to get my head around, and not enough data to see if the stats from that article ring true, but great work and excellent little quote.

**mikerochipshot** · 02-11-2015, 09:31 PM

exactly John, the thing it does not account for is the system is like a slope that has a lessening grade as you descend, in that you will fall much faster from a 28 to a 20 handicap than from a 16 to an8 and slower still 8 to scratch tis is why the need for more flights.

**Willymakit** · 02-11-2015, 09:34 PM

Handicaps [/B]

Q: How often you should beat your handicap?

A: You should average about three shots higher than your handicap. For example, a player with a Course Handicap of 16 on a course with a USGA Course Rating of 71.2 should average about 90, not 87. The USGA Handicap System is based on 96 percent of the best 10 differentials (corrected for Course and Slope Rating) of his last 20 rounds. More than half of your scores should be within three strokes of three over your handicap (87 to 93 in our example). Most golfers will beat their handicap (87 or better in our example) 20 per cent of the time and beat it by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds. For this player to break 80 (beat his handicap by eight), the odds are 1,138 to 1 that his handicap is correct. Do that twice and it would take the average golfer to play over 700 years of golf to accomplish it "fairly". In other words, odds far beyond reasonableness. .

By Dean Knuth, Golf Digest Professional Advisor. Former senior director of the USGA handicap department, Knuth invented today's USGA Course Rating and Slope system. EditRegion1 [/QUOTE]

So the guys that have won so far is because they shot the best scores they ever have. So that means they won't win for another 700 years. Lol.

**mikerochipshot** · 02-11-2015, 09:55 PM

maybe...maybe not if they win repeatedly their handicaps will drop though and in most systems tourney scores weigh more heavily and since our system is all tourney scores the only thing you could do is have wins or top three or something weigh more heavy

**SFR** · 02-11-2015, 10:01 PM

Also a real handicap needs to be adjusted before entering. For example if you are a 9 HC or lower, you can only record a max of 2 over for any hole. So if you were shooting even par up to the last 2 holes and you took a quad on each of the last two holes, you still can only enter a score of 4 over or lets say a 76 instead of the actual 80 you scored on your card. How many actually do this is a whole other reason for the sandbagging comments.

If you are a higher than a 9 HC it changes to that you can take a max 7 on any hole, so big differences once you hit below that 9 HC mark.

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